Sick Cham w/Parasites

[jannb]

I did not know!

It was a book I wanted to get but I wanted to find out from other people/exotic vets if his book was a good reference book to have. I liked his common sense approach.

Just to be clear, which book would you recommend as a reference volume for me? Lucky you to have such a good vet.

I'd recommend volume 2. I am extremely lucky to have two awesome chameleon vets. My mobile vet doesn't have a reptile degree and can't do diagnostic imagining but all through med school he breed chameleons and has allot of chameleon experience but I go to Dr. Mader for serious problems and surgeries.

 

[Blang]

I'm not going to go into a bunch of details, but I've seen enough to know the cham needs a trip to the vet, a fecal, and some deworming done. Those are not tapeworms at all.

I own both Vol 1 and 2 of Frye's books, bought those new. I own Doc Mader's book too, bought that new. I also have my old paperback on internal parasites from I think..Doc Klingerburg(?) I don't have it handy to see if that's how the name is spelled. There is plenty of information out there for anybody who really wants it, unlike decades ago.

I restate my first post, Vet trip. By the time a cham starts showing its sick like your photo shows him, you don't have a lot of time imo. Just trying to help.

I defiantly agree with a trip to the vet! No doubt!

 

[alphakenc]

I wouldn't. Even touch those poop with a 10 foot pole,poor baby cham,he needs a urgent care,if i were u I will go knock on the vets door right now and let the vet do a total body exam,he was a very beautiful cham,what the hell happen,I think the new york city rat has better poop than his,I will pray for ur poor baby cham to get well soon,but you need to get to the vet asap!!!

 

[NorCalAnthony]

I'm not going to go into a bunch of details, but I've seen enough to know the cham needs a trip to the vet, a fecal, and some deworming done. Those are not tapeworms at all.

I own both Vol 1 and 2 of Frye's books, bought those new. I own Doc Mader's book too, bought that new. I also have my old paperback on internal parasites from I think..Doc Klingerburg(?) I don't have it handy to see if that's how the name is spelled. There is plenty of information out there for anybody who really wants it, unlike decades ago.

I restate my first post, Vet trip. By the time a cham starts showing its sick like your photo shows him, you don't have a lot of time imo. Just trying to help.

I appreciate the concern but come on have you even read the thread or just looked at the pictures? I don't mean to sound rude or anything but I said in my original post that I've been trying to get him in to a vet and then said it again several times after that including me posting what time the appointment is tomorrow.

Again not trying to be rude or anything and I really appreciate everyone trying to help me and my guy out but it's super frustrating when people just keep saying to take him to the vet right now as if I don't care or am intentionally not taking him to one when in reality I've been trying to get him an appointment this whole time.

 

[NorCalAnthony]

Check out post #30 in the Area by Area Vet List. Jessica use to keep allot of chameleons and if her vet is still at that practice he would be a good one to use.

Thanks for looking for me Jann. I was able to find one a lot closer than the bay area though (3+ hours one way). Dr Marianne Brick who is on that same area by area vet list is around half an hour away and was recommended by a couple of members on here and had a ton of good reviews online. I called this morning and booked their earliest appointment but it's not until tomorrow afternoon so we're keeping a close eye on him until then.

So far he's looking a little better than when I took the picture of him yesterday. He's still eating a little and isn't sleeping during the day or anything like that so I'm trying to stay positive that he's going to make a full and hopefully speedy recovery.

 

[NorCalAnthony]

I wouldn't. Even touch those poop with a 10 foot pole,poor baby cham,he needs a urgent care,if i were u I will go knock on the vets door right now and let the vet do a total body exam,he was a very beautiful cham,what the hell happen,I think the new york city rat has better poop than his,I will pray for ur poor baby cham to get well soon,but you need to get to the vet asap!!!

Unfortunately that's easier said than done since I didn't see how bad he was until after the holiday weekend started. There are a couple of vets that I might have been able to do an after hours visit with but none of them specialized in reptiles in reptiles and basically said they'd give it their best shot so I decided to wait until I could get him to someone who had a better chance of helping him.

As far as what the hell happened, I really wish I knew. He was fine a week or two ago and I'm not sure when his health started to decline or what caused it. I've been working 60 hours/week not including my 2 hour commute each day. The lights in the chameleon room are off when I leave and are usually off by the time I get home so the weekends are the only time I really get to spend with them.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Unfortunately that's easier said than done since I didn't see how bad he was until after the holiday weekend started. There are a couple of vets that I might have been able to do an after hours visit with but none of them specialized in reptiles in reptiles and basically said they'd give it their best shot so I decided to wait until I could get him to someone who had a better chance of helping him.

As far as what the hell happened, I really wish I knew. He was fine a week or two ago and I'm not sure when his health started to decline or what caused it. I've been working 60 hours/week not including my 2 hour commute each day. The lights in the chameleon room are off when I leave and are usually off by the time I get home so the weekends are the only time I really get to spend with them.

I'm really sorry you got the reaction you did. Sometimes people don't always read the whole thread, or they might have forgotten the previous posts where you wrote you had an appointment.

I understand your predicament. My vet and I once talked about what to do in a real emergency on a weekend when she is not available. There are only two vets in my city with any experience with reptiles and both are single-vet clinics so they don't do after-hours calls leaving that to the 24-hour emergency clinic. We both came to the conclusion that in most cases waiting was the best option since someone who only does dogs and cats is going to be absolutely no use to a reptile.

Let us know what the vet says.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

I appreciate the concern but come on have you even read the thread or just looked at the pictures? I don't mean to sound rude or anything but I said in my original post that I've been trying to get him in to a vet and then said it again several times after that including me posting what time the appointment is tomorrow.

Again not trying to be rude or anything and I really appreciate everyone trying to help me and my guy out but it's super frustrating when people just keep saying to take him to the vet right now as if I don't care or am intentionally not taking him to one when in reality I've been trying to get him an appointment this whole time.

My post wasn't at you, nor was it even intended to be rude. I quoted the person who gave his .02 those are just maggots and was if anything referring to that. I'll move on however.

 

[Mopskitty]

May I add another sick chameleon post? Well I don't know if he is or not so here goes...Lorenzo was adopted at a pet store that could of cared less about him...it was his second one because he was "too mean" so no one wanted him...then I saw where they had him...in a back room with thousands of loud birds...my baby probably felt like constant prey ...his skin was dry (not shedding dry) and he's too skinny...after fixing up his cage temp and humidity he's doing a lot better...even starting to gain weight!...I know this sounds great so far but here's my concern...when he sleeps at night he sleeps like he's in a coma even if I touch his paws that are clinging to the cage or touch his body he doesn't move an inch...I have to make sure I see him breathing just to set my mind at ease...as silly as it sounds could it just be because he's never gotten a good nights sleep til he came here??? Please help I'm so worried

 

[alphakenc]

Unfortunately that's easier said than done since I didn't see how bad he was until after the holiday weekend started. There are a couple of vets that I might have been able to do an after hours visit with but none of them specialized in reptiles in reptiles and basically said they'd give it their best shot so I decided to wait until I could get him to someone who had a better chance of helping him.

As far as what the hell happened, I really wish I knew. He was fine a week or two ago and I'm not sure when his health started to decline or what caused it. I've been working 60 hours/week not including my 2 hour commute each day. The lights in the chameleon room are off when I leave and are usually off by the time I get home so the weekends are the only time I really get to spend with them.

What about your wife,can she help you to bring the cham to the vet since you do work whole lot of hours?cause the more time pass by,the more illness the cham is going to suffer,if I were you,I will try to ask all my friends n family to help,time is ticking.....life of the cham

 

[NorCalAnthony]

I'm really sorry you got the reaction you did. Sometimes people don't always read the whole thread, or they might have forgotten the previous posts where you wrote you had an appointment.


I understand your predicament. My vet and I once talked about what to do in a real emergency on a weekend when she is not available. There are only two vets in my city with any experience with reptiles and both are single-vet clinics so they don't do after-hours calls leaving that to the 24-hour emergency clinic. We both came to the conclusion that in most cases waiting was the best option since someone who only does dogs and cats is going to be absolutely no use to a reptile.


Let us know what the vet says.

Don’t worry I know all of those posts were coming from a good place/out of concern for Poseidon so I was trying not to take anything too personally. I just got fed up after seeing someone tell me he needs to go to the vet for the 8th time when I said in my very first post that I’m doing everything I can to find someone who deals with chams so I can get him an appointment ASAP and then had to keep repeating that…

My post wasn't at you, nor was it even intended to be rude. I quoted the person who gave his .02 those are just maggots and was if anything referring to that. I'll move on however.

I know you probably didn’t mean to be rude but you (and other people) constantly saying I need to get him to a vet right this second when I’ve already repeatedly explained that I’m doing everything I can is pretty irritating. I know you're probably just concerned about my guy so that’s why I tried to choose my words carefully when I replied to you.

What about your wife,can she help you to bring the cham to the vet since you do work whole lot of hours?cause the more time pass by,the more illness the cham is going to suffer,if I were you,I will try to ask all my friends n family to help,time is ticking.....life of the cham

Again, the soonest appointment that I could book with the only vet that specializes in chams in my area was this afternoon regardless of what my or my wife’s work schedule is. I still have to work today so I’m going to be leaving early and my wife is going to pack up Poseidon and his stool sample so we can make it to our appointment on time while coming from opposite sides of town. Trust me when I say we’re doing everything we can to get him taken care of.

 

[alphakenc]

@NorCalAnthony It was Just my suggestion to u thats all,I came in the wrong time frame to give u the suggestion,Im not trying to be that 8th person,I understand your frustration,and I understand how busy you can get,Im just concerning about that poor cham,I didn't mean to tell u in a wrong way,so please understand my point of view and best luck to you and your lovely cham

 

[NorCalAnthony]

@NorCalAnthony It was Just my suggestion to u thats all,I came in the wrong time frame to give u the suggestion,Im not trying to be that 8th person,I understand your frustration,and I understand how busy you can get,Im just concerning about that poor cham,I didn't mean to tell u in a wrong way,so please understand my point of view and best luck to you and your lovely cham

No worries bud. Like I said before I know everyone is just voicing their concern for my little guy and that really is appreciated. I wasn't trying to scold you or anything I just wanted to make a point that I really am trying to do everything I can for Poseidon since it kept looking like that wasn't coming across for whatever reason.

Thanks everyone for your concern, suggestions and support. I'll be sure to post an update after the vet visit for everyone that is interested.

 

[alphakenc]

No worries bud. Like I said before I know everyone is just voicing their concern for my little guy and that really is appreciated. I wasn't trying to scold you or anything I just wanted to make a point that I really am trying to do everything I can for Poseidon since it kept looking like that wasn't coming across for whatever reason.

Thanks everyone for your concern, suggestions and support. I'll be sure to post an update after the vet visit for everyone that is interested.

 

[Blang]

My post wasn't at you, nor was it even intended to be rude. I quoted the person who gave his .02 those are just maggots and was if anything referring to that. I'll move on however.

I didnt say they were just maggots! I said to me that's what they looked like! I never said that's what they definatly are! Reread my original post!

 

[Blang]

Good luck today with your chameleon! Keep us all posted with your vet visit!!!!

 

[NorCalAnthony]

Quick update after Poseidon's trip to the vet today. The vet was concerned about his weight (down to 80g) and how weak his grip was. They checked the stool sample I brought with me and wound up finding two different types of parasites, flagellate/protozoan and pin worm, as well as budding yeast all of which could be contributing to his lack of appetite and loss in weight. She also said that the parasites could be preventing the food, water, and supplements from being totally absorbed which could be why he's getting so weak. I told her about him having issues with his tongue as she was doing the physical exam but she said she didn't see anything out of the ordinary with the tongue, mouth, or throat so she's thinking his tongue issue is part of everything else going on. He looked a little dehydrated so she gave him 12cc of fluids to help get the recovery ball rolling and then sent me home with some calcium and a couple different other meds for the parasites and to treat any possible infections. Tomorrow I'll be tearing apart his cage, replacing all the wood, and bleaching everything with a 1:30 mix and I'll be bringing him back in for a follow up visit in 2 weeks.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Quick update after Poseidon's trip to the vet today. The vet was concerned about his weight (down to 80g) and how weak his grip was. They checked the stool sample I brought with me and wound up finding two different types of parasites, flagellate/protozoan and pin worm, as well as budding yeast all of which could be contributing to his lack of appetite and loss in weight. She also said that the parasites could be preventing the food, water, and supplements from being totally absorbed which could be why he's getting so weak. I told her about him having issues with his tongue as she was doing the physical exam but she said she didn't see anything out of the ordinary with the tongue, mouth, or throat so she's thinking his tongue issue is part of everything else going on. He looked a little dehydrated so she gave him 12cc of fluids to help get the recovery ball rolling and then sent me home with some calcium and a couple different other meds for the parasites and to treat any possible infections. Tomorrow I'll be tearing apart his cage, replacing all the wood, and bleaching everything with a 1:30 mix and I'll be bringing him back in for a follow up visit in 2 weeks.

Great to hear he has something that the vet can identify and treat.

What did she say were the little maggoty things you found in his cage because they certainly weren't protozoa and looked much too big and the wrong shape to be pin worms.

What meds did she give you? My guess is Flagyl (metronidazole) and Panacur (fenbendazole). Did she recommend you give both at the same time, or first one and then the other? I have a wild caught female with flagellates and hook worms and wondered the protocol your own vet was suggesting. What did she recommend for the yeast?

Whenever I give meds I always draw up some plain water into the syringe I use to medicate to help with hydration because the meds you will be giving can be hard on their kidneys, and really hard on them if they are dehydrated. I also stuff a silkworm in their mouths after medicating. It does two things--keeps the meds in their mouths and keeps food in their gut because some of these meds will depress their appetite.

 

[Carlton]

May I add another sick chameleon post? Well I don't know if he is or not so here goes...Lorenzo was adopted at a pet store that could of cared less about him...it was his second one because he was "too mean" so no one wanted him...then I saw where they had him...in a back room with thousands of loud birds...my baby probably felt like constant prey ...his skin was dry (not shedding dry) and he's too skinny...after fixing up his cage temp and humidity he's doing a lot better...even starting to gain weight!...I know this sounds great so far but here's my concern...when he sleeps at night he sleeps like he's in a coma even if I touch his paws that are clinging to the cage or touch his body he doesn't move an inch...I have to make sure I see him breathing just to set my mind at ease...as silly as it sounds could it just be because he's never gotten a good nights sleep til he came here??? Please help I'm so worried

You should really start your own topic about your cham. Obviously it was missed in the OP's thread. Could you please post this again and to help us help you, please find the sticky message titled "how to ask for help" and answer the husbandry questions? This will give us the details about your cham's current care and we can figure out what might be wrong a lot faster!

To answer your original question about sleeping, remember that a cham in cooler temps and darkness at night has a slower metabolic rate. This also slows down the brain, so they are a lot less responsive to being touched. Its also defensive...if they hold very still they may not appear to be an animal, so this can discourage predators that search for movement.

 

[NorCalAnthony]

Great to hear he has something that the vet can identify and treat.

What did she say were the little maggoty things you found in his cage because they certainly weren't protozoa and looked much too big and the wrong shape to be pin worms.

What meds did she give you? My guess is Flagyl (metronidazole) and Panacur (fenbendazole). Did she recommend you give both at the same time, or first one and then the other? I have a wild caught female with flagellates and hook worms and wondered the protocol your own vet was suggesting. What did she recommend for the yeast?

Whenever I give meds I always draw up some plain water into the syringe I use to medicate to help with hydration because the meds you will be giving can be hard on their kidneys, and really hard on them if they are dehydrated. I also stuff a silkworm in their mouths after medicating. It does two things--keeps the meds in their mouths and keeps food in their gut because some of these meds will depress their appetite.

Sorry about the delay, yesterday wound up being an all-day cleaning event. I got Poseidon’s cage completely torn down and threw out both of his plants and all of the wood branches and bleached the bottom of the cage frame, plastic bottom, and plant stands. Since the vet said he would be expelling the parasites for the next couple of weeks I’m going to hold off on putting him back in his freshly cleaned cage and instead put him in a spare cage from one of my females so I don’t have to worry about re-doing his twice. While I was at it I went through and cleaned all of the other cages, changed up some of the light fixtures, and replaced all of their UV bulbs since I couldn’t remember when I did that last (summer time but not sure beginning or end…).

She prescribed him Ponazuril for the parasites with .08 cc 1x daily for 2 days then stop and repeat again in 2 weeks. She also prescribed Calcium Glubionate that’s going to be .08cc 2x daily until at least the follow up appointment in 2 weeks and likely for a full month just to be on the safe side. The other two that she prescribed were Ketoconazole (.08 cc 1x daily) for the yeast and Metronidazole (.06cc 1x daily) for any possible infections that might be going on… I didn't have the extra money to buy Dr Mader's book but I did Google all of those and saw them all being used by different members on here so I'm guessing they're all good meds.

I forgot to ask what the worm looking things were once they started going over everything with me. We did talk about them possibly being gnat/fruit fly larva before they did the fecal exam though so maybe that was it?

The vet tech that was working with us yesterday gave us syringes for each of the different meds and pre-marked the dose on each of them with a red sharpie line/ring to make it a little easier for us to measure the right dose. Thanks for the tip about adding a little water to the medication that’s a great idea that I wound up using yesterday. My silk and horn worm shipment was supposed to come in yesterday but got pushed out to today for some reason. Once they get here I'll try feeding him one with the meds like you suggested.

I know it's still early and he's got a ways to go before he's recovered but he's already starting to get some of his color back and doesn't have that awful whitish-gray color anymore and he had a BM last night after I moved him in to his temporary cage and it was mostly solid and normal looking instead of the gooey mush looking droppings that I had posted a picture of. Here's hoping he has a smooth and speedy recovery