Sick baby veiled?

Jogawel

New Member
My daughter bought a baby veiled chameleon just over a month ago, maybe 2-3 months old. No idea of the sex. It hasn’t eaten in a couple days and today it isn’t opening it’s eyes very much. She is providing 2-3 small crickets daily, dusted with multivitamin and calcium with D3. Water in dish and she sprays/mists several times a day and humidity stays between 50-70 most of the time. Temp is usually around 80. She turns off the up bulb at night, leaves the heat lamp on 24/7. She has a Thrive set up from Petsmart, and also bought the Cham from Petsmart.
I don’t know enough about them and online information is conflicting and confusing. I don’t know what to do and only emergency vet that is open will only see cats and dogs. Any suggestions?
 

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janjan20

Chameleon Enthusiast
Hi there, your little one is not looking good and your set up/husbandry need a lot of changes. First stop with the supplements. Multivitamins anD3 should only be given twice a month on alternating weeks. You need to get Plain phosphorus free calcium. Next no heat or lights at night. They can take temps in the 50s. Sunken eyes are not good, typically a sign of decline or dehydration. Please fill out the husbandry form with as much detail.


Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

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Please Note:
The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
Photos can be very helpful
 

ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
Sadly, basically everything in your enclosure and husbandry is incorrect! Chameleons go downhill fast, so an experienced chameleon vet is needed ASAP! A 24 hour exotic animal hospital will work in a pinch as well! Even if the drive is hours, it’s worth it! What happened to his/her tail? If you post a pic from the side view of the back of his/her back feet, we’ll be able to sex him/her. Right now at his/her age, the care is the same for either gender. Please read through all of these links and care images (the lay bin image is for if he/she is female), especially all of the modules and the veiled species profile, as well as listening to as many podcasts as possible, from The Chameleon Academy (they have the most accurate and up-to-date info!):
https://www.chameleons.info/en/
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/keeping-female-veiled.html (if female)
http://www.muchadoaboutchameleons.com/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/external-resources/
https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/
https://chameleonacademy.com/veiled-chameleon-care/
https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/
https://chameleonacademy.com/setting-up-a-chameleon-cage/
http://www.muchadoaboutchameleons.com/2012/04/how-to-set-up-proper-chameleon.html
 

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Jogawel

New Member
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Veiled, sex - no idea, and couple months. How long has it been in your care - 1 month
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? 1-2/week
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? 2-3 small crickets in the morning. How are you gut-loading your feeders? Given carrots
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? Exoterra vitamin and Calcium with D3
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? Misting and dishes. Misted 3-5 times a day. Seen drinking off leaves and dishe
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. White/brown
  • Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? No
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. None

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Glass with mesh top, 18”x18”x24”?
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? Thrive 30-gal vertical glass terrarium, 60 watt daytime, 13 watt uvb.
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Top is about 80, which is where temp gauge is (4-5 inches from top of terrarium).
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? 50-70. How are you creating and maintaining these levels? Misting. What do you use to measure humidity? Gauge
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? No
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? Near a window, on a dresser about 3’ from the floor.
  • Location - Where are you geographically located? Maryland
 

Jogawel

New Member
Sadly, basically everything in your enclosure and husbandry is incorrect! Chameleons go downhill fast, so an experienced chameleon vet is needed ASAP! A 24 hour exotic animal hospital will work in a pinch as well! Even if the drive is hours, it’s worth it! What happened to his/her tail? If you post a pic from the side view of the back of his/her back feet, we’ll be able to sex him/her. Right now at his/her age, the care is the same for either gender. Please read through all of these links and care images (the lay bin image is for if he/she is female), especially all of the modules and the veiled species profile, as well as listening to as many podcasts as possible, from The Chameleon Academy (they have the most accurate and up-to-date info!):
https://www.chameleons.info/en/
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/keeping-female-veiled.html (if female)
http://www.muchadoaboutchameleons.com/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/external-resources/
https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/
https://chameleonacademy.com/veiled-chameleon-care/
https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/
https://chameleonacademy.com/setting-up-a-chameleon-cage/
http://www.muchadoaboutchameleons.com/2012/04/how-to-set-up-proper-chameleon.html
The tail has always looked like that, so not sure. I will try to get a picture of its rear. Unfortunately, I don’t know if there are any exotic emergency vets anywhere near here. There is only 1 on the shore that is currently closed.
 

Joeskier

Member
My daughter bought a baby veiled chameleon just over a month ago, maybe 2-3 months old. No idea of the sex. It hasn’t eaten in a couple days and today it isn’t opening it’s eyes very much. She is providing 2-3 small crickets daily, dusted with multivitamin and calcium with D3. Water in dish and she sprays/mists several times a day and humidity stays between 50-70 most of the time. Temp is usually around 80. She turns off the up bulb at night, leaves the heat lamp on 24/7. She has a Thrive set up from Petsmart, and also bought the Cham from Petsmart.
I don’t know enough about them and online information is conflicting and confusing. I don’t know what to do and only emergency vet that is open will only see cats and dogs. Any suggestions?
I was in the same boat- these big box pet stores spread incorrect information and it doesn’t give these reptiles a fighting chance because people obviously believe what the store who is selling the animals tell them... consumers never know the difference until there beloved reptile is sick...
Sorry your going through this - follow the advice from this forum- very knowledgeable. Hope your guys survives.
 

ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
Bare with me here, there is literally every aspect of husbandry to go over! All of my feedback and questions will be in red, and I’ve already attached links and images. I’m going to refer to your cham as her for the purpose of helping the info flow better in my responses. She needs either an experienced chameleon vet or a 24 hour exotics animal hospital ASAP, even if the drive is hours long!

Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Veiled, sex - no idea, and couple months. How long has it been in your care - 1 month
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? 1-2/week How do you handle her, and why are you getting her out?
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? 2-3 small crickets in the morning. How are you gut-loading your feeders? Given carrots At that age, she needs to be given as much as she’ll eat, probably multiple times a day depending on how young she is (I suck at guessing veileds’ ages so someone else will have to give you her age)! Her gutload needs TONS more variety! Refer to the gutload image I posted for proper gutload ingredients and ratios! She can also have multiple other types of feeders as well, just make sure they’re the appropriate size! Refer to the feeder image for other great healthy feeders!
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? Exoterra vitamin and Calcium with D3 Sadly, Exo Terra supplements aren’t good! The trusted brands are Zoo Med, Repashy, Arcadia, and Sticky Tongue Farms. All of those brands have different products and schedules. Which brand is most available and easiest to get for you? Once you decide, we can give you the proper schedules to go with whatever brand(s) and types you got! For a basic but proven schedule, you need a quality phosphorus-free calcium without D3 to use on every feeder (right before feeding them off- just don‘t cake them in supplement, only a light covering is needed) every feeding, a quality phosphorus-free calcium with D3 to use once every two weeks, and a quality multivitamin without D3 (preferably with preformed Vitamin A) to use once every two weeks as well. Do the calcium w/D3 and multivitamin without D3 on alternating weeks, like @janjan20 said!
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? Misting and dishes. Misted 3-5 times a day. Seen drinking off leaves and dishe Take the water dish out ASAP! They can breed bacteria and chameleons don’t respond to still water! Misting and using a dripper are how a chameleon drinks (as well as fogging at night but that is a more advanced subject than what you need right now)! How long are you misting for each time? Each daytime misting session needs to be at least 2-5+ minutes or longer. Try to only mist in the morning and at night when her cage is cooler for her daytime mistings, if her humidity levels allow it.
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. White/brown
  • Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? No When you take her to the vet, bring a fresh fecal sample with you so it can be checked for parasites! Make sure to drop off at least 2 more fresh fecal samples afterwards to make sure no parasites were missed. This is especially important since she’s from Petsmart! The vet might recommend x-rays to check her tail and for metabolic bone disease, as well.
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. None

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Glass with mesh top, 18”x18”x24”? All of the reptile hammocks, fake plants, and substrate needs to be removed ASAP! The hammocks are not meant for chameleons, and her nails can get caught in the rope! Fake plants and substrate are impaction risks, veileds need live plants only and a bare bottom with drainage if you’re not bioactive (I don’t thing you are, and bioactive enclosures should only be used with healthy chams and correct husbandry)! She also needs TONS more branches, vines, and live plants! I’ll go over it more in the plant section! She also needs a properly ventilated cage! For you for right now, I’d advise for getting a screen cage because it ensures proper ventilation, is quick and easy to buy, and you can also cover parts of the cage to raise humidity levels if needed! If she is indeed female, she’ll need a proper lay bin as a permanent part of her enclosure once she gets to 4 months old (this is just incase she is an early bloomer). Her adult cage, which she can go into now, needs to be minimum size of either 36” x 18” x 36” tall (female only) or 2’ x 2’ x 4’ tall (female or male), but preferably 4’ x 2’ x 4’ tall or bigger! Bigger is always better! There are 2 great cage set-up links in my previous post!
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? Thrive 30-gal vertical glass terrarium, 60 watt daytime, 13 watt uvb. Her UVB bulb is wrong. She needs a T5 High Output linear light fixture (either the length of, or a foot longer than, the length of her adult cage) and either a T5 HO linear UVB Arcadia 6% bulb or a T5 HO linear UVB Zoo Med 5.0 bulb of the matching size of the fixture to go in it! Do not buy a Zilla fixture, they have plastic blocking all UVB from getting into her cage! With a T5 HO light fixture and either a 6% or 5.0 linear UVB bulb, the bulb needs to raised off the top of the cage (either on a stand or hung- because her cage is so short) and be 8-9” away from her basking branch. You also want to make sure her heat bulb is a minimum of 7” away from where he casque/top of her back is when she’s on her basking branch, but preferably 8-9” or more! Zoo Med linear UVB bulbs need to be replaced every 6 months and Arcadia bulbs once a year if you don’t have a Solarmeter 6.5 (which is a need to buy item if you can afford it!). The Solarmeter 6.5 will give you precise UVI Readings, let you know if a linear UVB bulb is defective, and tell you when to actually replace your UVB bulb (when the ratings are cut in half)! What is your lighting schedule? It needs to be all bulbs (linear UVB, heat bulb, and any plant lights) on for 12 hours and all off for 12 hours of complete darkness! Do you use anything else to heat her cage?
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Top is about 80, which is where temp gauge is (4-5 inches from top of terrarium). How do you measure her temps? What are her ambient and nighttime temps? Her basking spot should be 78-80*F at the max. Measure it with a digital thermometer with a probe, with the probe placed where her casque/top of her back is when she’s on her basking branch.
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? 50-70. How are you creating and maintaining these levels? Misting. What do you use to measure humidity? Gauge 50-70% daytime humidity is too high for a veiled! That paired with poor ventilation (which you have) and high heat can cause respiratory infections! Her humidity levels need to be between 30-50% during the day and up to 100% at night (this is only with adequate airflow, so don’t go that high right now!). You need a digital hygrometer to measure humidity levels. I use three digital thermometer-hygrometer combos to measure ambient temps and humidity levels throughout my cages. One placed by my cham’s basking area, one placed in the middle of the cage, and one placed near the bottom of the cage.
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? No Veileds need only chameleon-safe veiled-tested live plants! You can use the fake plants you already bought to put on the outside of her cage to add more privacy. All plants need to be properly cleaned and have rocks too big for her to eat covering the soil in the pots before putting them in her enclosure. She needs TONS more live plants, branches of multiple species and diameters (no branches from toxic or sap-producing trees and no dowels covered in moss), and vines (preferably all live but fake ones that aren’t moss or Exo Terra will work as well)! I attached 2 great veiled-tested chameleon-safe plant charts in my post above.
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? Near a window, on a dresser about 3’ from the floor. Is the window energy efficient or does it warm/cool the areas by it inside? Can she see her reflection in the window or in her enclosure?
  • Location - Where are you geographically located? Maryland
 

ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
The tail has always looked like that, so not sure. I will try to get a picture of its rear. Unfortunately, I don’t know if there are any exotic emergency vets anywhere near here. There is only 1 on the shore that is currently closed.
Where in Maryland do you live? This will help us find a reputable chameleon vet for you to go to. Make sure the vet looks at his/her tail when you take him/her in!
 

rango123veiled

Established Member
ErkelRose, i know you know how good my care is in chameleons so if you could read my message and tell the person who posted this if they should listen to my answer, i want to know if im giving them false information
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
Your daughter's chameleon unfortunately doesn't look well at all. I don't like the way it's holding its nose up and how it looks trying to hang onto the plant/branches.

You said..."My daughter bought a baby veiled chameleon just over a month ago, maybe 2-3 months old. No idea of the sex"....look at he heels...if there is a tarsal spur it's a make if not it's a female...
https://www.adcham.com/html/husbandry/glossary/tarsalspur.html

You said..."It hasn’t eaten in a couple days and today it isn’t opening it’s eyes very much. She is providing 2-3 small crickets daily, dusted with multivitamin and calcium with D3"... A healthy one should be eating more than a dozen of the appropriate size crickets every day...lightly dusted with phos free calcium powder just before feeding them to the chameleon. Other appropriate sized insects can be used as well.
Twice a month a phos free calcium/D3 powder should be used instead of the calcium powder and twice a month a vitamin powder with a prEformed (retinol) source of vitamin A should be used instead. I know this has been mentioned already.
The insects should be well fed/gut loaded properly. You've been given some info for this already.
Improper supplementing may be a part of the chameleon's problems.

You said..."Water in dish and she sprays/mists several times a day and humidity stays between 50-70 most of the time"...it's not recommended to use dishes of water because they can harbor germs.

You said ..."Temp is usually around 80. She turns off the up bulb at night, leaves the heat lamp on 24/7. She has a Thrive set up from Petsmart, and also bought the Cham from Petsmart"...there should be no heat on at night unless your room temperature goes down below 60F. There should be no light at night....that might be part of the problem for the way the chameleon is now. The UVB light should be the long linear tube light...Reptisun 5.0 or Arcadia.
Curly or short UVB lights don't provide the right amount of UVB.
White lights should be used for basking lights. Basking temperature should be 80F for a young veiled especially if it's a female.

You said..."I don’t know enough about them and online information is conflicting and confusing"... You will get good information here.

You need to act,fast to solve the problems or you're going to lose the chameleon sadly.
 

ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
I’m not sure if this is near you or not, but I’d call the Fairfax location of Pender Vet and ask about how much and what types of chameleon experiences any/all of the 5 exotics vets have there. If their experience is good, knowledgeable, reputable, and diverse, then take your cham there!
 
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