showering helps chameleons shed?!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mawtyplant, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. Mawtyplant

    Mawtyplant Avid Member

    So, your advices?

    My advices is no.. based on Petr Necas references, so what your advices and based on what knowledge or references?
     
    Syreptyon likes this.
  2. Tiosk

    Tiosk Member

    Seriously
     
    makkatfloof likes this.
  3. Tiosk

    Tiosk Member

    Why are you doing this
     
    makkatfloof likes this.
  4. Mawtyplant

    Mawtyplant Avid Member

    for how long do you keep chameleon?!
     
    Syreptyon likes this.
  5. Tiosk

    Tiosk Member

    What?
     
    makkatfloof likes this.
  6. jamest0o0

    jamest0o0 Chameleon Enthusiast

    If petr necas said it. It must be true... serious, the guy is the gospel on chameleons.

    I rarely shower my chameleons. I just mist long once a week. I find that good nutrition and ambient humidity seem to do the trick just fine. No other references to base that on. Interested to see where this thread goes.
     
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  7. todd2010

    todd2010 Established Member

    Blog posts are not research in my opinion. That brings to question, is there a good place to go for actual research on Chameleon care? I'm looking for research within the last 5 years that is generally done in the scientific method of double blind and peer reviewed. I tend to trust it a lot more if it is done in this manner.
     
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  8. makkatfloof

    makkatfloof Member

    I don’t even care about the shower part as I do about the increased humidity.
    I’ve seen nothing but suggestions on increased humidity, even by my own vet who for the millionth time I will say is a lifelong CHAMELEON SPECIALIST.
    I can understand if at times a shower may be too much as too much water is a bad thing, even if it’s been good on my chameleon.
    But my concern is not only did he have no backing on what he was saying, but was the only person, website, book, etc I’ve seen to say that.
    I’m more concerned with what has helped my chameleon too, personally. If showers and slightly upped humidity has helped him have an easier shed, I will suggest that to someone else too.
    Not at all denying that the dude is an expert. But he’s the only expert I’ve seen that has said this.
     
    Tiosk likes this.
  9. Mawtyplant

    Mawtyplant Avid Member

    What is the name of your vet?
     
  10. makkatfloof

    makkatfloof Member

    Jennifer Herbert.
     
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  11. Graves923

    Graves923 Avid Member

    Showering specifically isnt why it helps the chameleons shed. The raise humidity helps soften stuck and dried on shed so it can fall off easier. Often times just increasing misting duration and frequency can work wonders
     
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  12. Tiosk

    Tiosk Member

    . This is true
     
    makkatfloof likes this.
  13. jamest0o0

    jamest0o0 Chameleon Enthusiast

    @todd2010 not really other than a few scientists that study them, mainly in the field. I dont think researching chameleons is a heavily funded subject. It's a niche hobby and I'd imagine they aren't paying huge for people to go learn what the best method for chameleon showering or whatever is.

    I really enjoy reading anything from someone who has actually researched chameleons or any exotic animals, but really, some people get a little bit too snobby about requiring scientific backing(I'm not implying this is anyone here). You can learn just as much or more from keepers who have had them for years and years and bred them successfully. I compare it to someone that knows all the ins and outs of a sport, versus the person who has actually played it most of their life. So many variables go into things involving exotics, it's not very cut and dry. But then we have a few people like petr necas who have spent a good deal of time studying this animal and have a credible background. So when they share something, it's worth listening to.
     
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  14. makkatfloof

    makkatfloof Member

    Along with what you said, which I 100% agree, I think chameleons are such sensitive creatures and each one needs just slightly different needs.
    All reptiles are high maintenance. Chameleons DEFINITELY being the most high maintenance. And like you said, there isn’t a lot of scientific funding. Who knows what is actual “fact” anymore.
    And all because of this, that’s why I do trial and error with my boy. Like I know increased humidity has helped my boy, so I go for it. But for others like @Mawtyplant , not doing a thing different may have helped.
    It’s a lot of trial and error and personal experience.
     
  15. JacksJill

    JacksJill Chameleon Enthusiast

    I have huge respect for Petr Necas and the research he is doing in the field. It is invaluable. That said just because they survive in the wild one way does not necessarily mean that that is optimal care.
    He says they shouldn't get showers to remove sheds because it can increase bacterial growth and the possibility of infections and that they don't get a lot of daytime humidity and there are only two rainy seasons per year when they would get daytime moisture and they tend to hide in the vegetation during the rains. Night time humidity is 90-100%. All great observations and good to know.
    In the wild they usually only live to be two years old, just enough time to reproduce.
    My personal in captivity observation is my chameleon will avoid the mister spray unless he is about to shed and than he will make an effort to get into it.
    So I apply Petr's ideas by not having high humidity and high heat at the same time. All showers and long mistings are done at lights on or just before lights off. I do short mistings just to provide water for drinking midday because I can improve on nature by providing a drinking opportunity with out much humidity increase. If I had an automated reliable dripper that would be better. I use the fogger at night when it's cool to get the high humidity and replicate nature.
    I give a couple hand showers a week to make sure their eyes are getting cleaned. Their eyes are unique specialized structures and I believe require maintenance as they are quite vulnerable.
    This is just how I do it. Seems to be working but I just changed from the old traditional system a couple months ago.
    @todd2010 you should look at @kinyonga 's old posts she links a lot of good references
     
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  16. Mawtyplant

    Mawtyplant Avid Member

    i let you the entire quote of Petr,

    Petr Necas Often, people ask: “What should I do when my chameleon is shedding?”
    And often, many people rush with good advices like:
    “Increase humidity!”
    “Spray the enclosure!”
    “Spray with warm water!”
    All these recommendations are uncritically parroted for ages.
    And, they all are totally WRONG.

    WHY?
    Increased humidity brings problems for shedding once it is in process!!!
    In chameleons, unlike e.g. in snakes, the old skin gets separated from the new one by AIR LAYER.
    So, if you increase the humidity or even spray, the old skin gets glued to the new one and the shedding process gets stuck!
    On Contrary:
    Keep the humidity low when the shedding happens, it is over in several hours.

    Never spray chameleon with warm water! You will burn him! Warm perceived by humans is around 110F, even lukewarm is at our body-temperature at 98,6F: that is too high for a Chameleon!

    Only in case the old shed gets stuck, make it moist with cold (room temperature) water and remove mechanically!
    Never use any oil nor vaseline to do so! It is useless, it can be harmful! Water does the job best, easiest, most natural way!

    Some people will object: but I was advised so for long time.
    OK, please ignore it! We were also told for centuries, our earth is flat and people saying it was round were crucified...

    Some people will object: but I spray my chameleon and it sheds!
    OK, then please understand, he/she is shedding not BECAUSE you spray but DESPITE OF your spraying and you are lucky that it does not cause problems.

    So,
    “WHAT TO DO, once I notice my Chameleon is shedding?”
    Do nothing!
    Do not spray on him!
    Do not spray the enclosure!
    Do Not increase humidity!
    Let him/her get rid of the old skin.


    Personally i have no shedding problem, only had some shedding problem due to a fungus infection but this is another story! ;)

    but the showering method im really not sure about it.. this seem more stressfull than helpfull

    ps.. as some of you notice.. im not anglophone! so sorry for my writting accent!
     
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  17. JacksJill

    JacksJill Chameleon Enthusiast

    Thanks for the quote. I wasn't able to find it. I didn't paraphrase very well. He maybe right.
    I don't add extra misting for mine as they seen to shed fine but I don't avoid it either. I suspect that nutrition plays more of a role than anything else but at the time of a difficult shed it's to late.
    This is interesting. I will follow to see what others think.
    PS. I understand you perfectly.
     
  18. Mawtyplant

    Mawtyplant Avid Member

    That is awesome! im always scared too write something absurd or something rude by mistake :p

    Definitely for the nutrition.. well.. healthy chameleon usualy have no shedding problem, i think shedding problem is one of the first "there is another problem" alarm

    i breed and care melleri and shedding problem is super common with this speacies and this is usually due to vitamin A.. !
     
    JacksJill likes this.
  19. todd2010

    todd2010 Established Member

    While I do appreciate others with experience and insight, historically (frequently) we are wrong about a subject for a very long time and science disproves the assumptions and anecdotal information. Medicine is full of snake oil anecdotal information and still thrives as each generation chooses to believe something works when not scientifically proven. We have an industry that makes an incredible amount of profit from unproven remedies. I completely hear you with regard to lack of research and the need to listen to others with experience with regard to chameleons however. That's why I'm here on the forums after all! This forum is an amazing resource, I was just looking to educate myself even more.
     

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