Senegal Chameleon Group!

[DanSB]

I've been wanting to start a Senegal Chameleon breeding group for many years now but one thing or another has always slowed me down. So when I saw an ad from a reputable reptile seller advertising juveniles available I finally couldn't resist.

I really just want to start with a 1:2 group but with mortality of wild caught Senegals along with the near impossibility to accurately sex juveniles I decided to go for a group of 5.

They showed up well packed with an appropriate heat pad and well secured bags with newspaper strips... So far so good!

Now to the important part to see how they weathered their trip and how they look...

I opened the bags to see if any would come out on their own, only one actually walked out on its own the rest I had to reach in and grab.

They all looked pretty good (5 total) I was really expecting at least one that was not happy...

Two more look about the same as the 2 above but the guy below did NOT look happy and was the hardest to get out of its bag:

I got them all in their new enclosure. Remember, for those of you who know everything, that Senegals especially do best in groups up until they reach sexual maturity. All of these little ones will be together until they start to show signs of aggression or they start getting closer to full grown size. I expect this to be anywhere from 2 to 6 months depending on the individuals.

The enclosure is an Exo Terra 18 x 24 x 36 screen with a CFL UVB and plant light along with a 100 watt basking spot and a 60 watt ceramic heater because it is still a little chilly here at night.

I will be watching them closely and have enclosures ready for separating anyone who doesn't want to play nice with others or gets sick.


But so far so good, since the pics I have misted them heavily twice and they all are drinking well. I will not feed until later today or tomorrow.

This is the dark one in the last pic, colored up quick as soon as it got in the enclosure:

And the rest hanging out:

If anyone has experience breeding Senegals I'd be happy for any suggestions or advice.

If anyone is interested about where I got them feel free to PM me, I don't want to break any rules by openly endorsing anyone on the boards.

I'll keep updating this thread as they grow or things change if anyone is interested.

 

[Dirtydominican77]

You have a good looking group of chams. Good luck to you. 1 question; were they wild caught or captive bread?

 

[DanSB]

Thank you!

They are "Imports" which I take to mean wild caught. I don't think any exporters are actually farming them in Africa but I could be wrong. Regardless I will treat them as wild caught and when they get settled a bit more have them tested / treated for internals.

Being young juveniles I expect them to have a much better chance than the older WC senegals I see all over the place.

 

[Dirtydominican77]

That's what I've been reading. Best to have them young to better weather the trip. We'll once again good luck with your group, will be waiting to see them grow up and hopefully breed.

 

[Andee]

I have heard not to treat wild caughts for parasites until they've been settled for a long time. Until they have been stable for something like months.

 

[DanSB]

I have heard not to treat wild caughts for parasites until they've been settled for a long time. Until they have been stable for something like months.

I fully agree with this; barring an immediate or obvious infection / excessive parasite load automatic treating for unknown parasites is a bad idea. That is one of the reasons I selected the seller I did is that he doesn't just shove panacur down every animal and call them good.

Once they settle I'll have fecals done and treat as appropriate. Unnecessary treatment on baby chameleons is a recipe for a shortened life and early liver failure...

 

[Andee]

I hope all goes well with your plan and babies <3 it would be nice to see a stable captive breeding program of senegals.

 

[DanSB]

I hope all goes well with your plan and babies <3 it would be nice to see a stable captive breeding program of senegals.

I think Senegals are some of the most interesting, friendly, and fun chameleons in the world. They don't have bling but they have personality, style, and grace and there is place for that in the reptile world!

Thank you for well wishes, I'll need all the luck and good karma I can get here...

 

[Trace]

I'll keep updating this thread as they grow or things change if anyone is interested.

I’m interested! As we’ve discussed in the past I think a large Senegal, Flapneck and Graceful group would be a neat triumvirate to work with just to compare and contrast their differences.

Now I’ve had a different experience with the Senegals in that they are easy to sex. The males do have a marked hemipenal bulge and to be honest I’m just not seeing on any of your group. Granted some are behind leaves and they are dehydrated at this point so I’m not going to definitely say either way.

Good luck with your venture. The Senegals are a great chameleon and if a small pool of captive stock were to be established is one I would recommend for many people.

 

[jannb]

Congratulations Dan! They are all such little cuties!!! I hope you do have some males and females and the very best of luck with your breeding.

 

[KLowery88]

Looks like a great group. I hope you have a lot of luck with them.

 

[Chase]

I’m interested! As we’ve discussed in the past I think a large Senegal, Flapneck and Graceful group would be a neat triumvirate to work with just to compare and contrast their differences.

Now I’ve had a different experience with the Senegals in that they are easy to sex. The males do have a marked hemipenal bulge and to be honest I’m just not seeing on any of your group. Granted some are behind leaves and they are dehydrated at this point so I’m not going to definitely say either way.

Good luck with your venture. The Senegals are a great chameleon and if a small pool of captive stock were to be established is one I would recommend for many people.

I agree they are really cool. I've wanted to work with all three species but have always put them on the back burner for some reason. Hopefully that'll change soon.

Good luck @DanSB, they look really good!

Chase

 

[DanSB]

Thank you Jann, and Klowrey!

Trace and Chace, I am all for a Chamaeleo appreciation group and will definitely contribute my observations.

I think 2 of the group are males but I'm not going harass them to pose for a booty shot quite yet. For me I couldn't tell my last Senegal was a male until he was full grown, it was almost like the hemi just dropped.

I asked the seller to try for a 2:3 group so I suppose he saw the same thing I did.

Today 1 of the smallest fed out of the cricket cup that was still in my hand and proceeded to eat 6 crix that were big for her. All the rest free hunted and ate and all are drinking well.

I only saw 3 fecals so far. They were not fully digested but I assume that was from the trip and will be watching closely. I expect to see normal fecals in a few days.

All are active and alert still so my fingers are crossed for a bit of luck.

 

[DanSB]

Just a little update, I'll have pics later this week.

All 5 are doing well, feeding well, drinking a lot and acclimating.

The biggest one is starting to show a little aggression, she will get her own house next week or sooner if anyone starts showing stress colors. So far nobody is really spotting up or showing dark colors that might indicate any kind of real stress so I'm not concerned. In my experience Senegals are not shy about letting you know when they are irritated.

I'm stepping up misting because some of the urates are still light yellow, while much improved it is not that snow white I want to see! I see no other signs of dehydration such as sunken eyes or that funky skin texture dehydrated chams get. At least the fecals are now all fully digested and not full of visible cricket parts.

At the Lodi breeders show this weekend I picked up some green bottle fly spikes from Steve Sims. They were fresh and coming out huge in a day. If you want to see young Senegal Chameleons with an insane feeding response the flies did it! They were literally tracking and chasing flies all the way across the cage it was awesome. They would not touch the small silk worms or horn worms I tried on them which I took as discouragement to not try butter worms or black soldier fly larvae. I'll try again later once they get bored with crickets and flies. I will probably also add roaches once I get more babies, all my roaches are giant now.

So far they are mainly eating medium banded crickets (dusted with Calcium no D3) and flies. Calcium D3 and multivitamins are both dusted once a month. Gut load is Cricket Crack for dry feed along with wet feed being: fresh Kale, Carrots, Orange Rind and I'll add some bell peppers and apples later on.

 

[Duma]

They are beautiful! Good luck. Looking forward to seeing them as they mature!

 

[DanSB]

Thank you Duma!

There was a crazy "emergency" this morning with my little group. I turned on the lights to mist and feed before I went to work and what did I find but the entire cage covered in ants!

I'm not positive if these particular ants are dangerous but I am certain there is no way being covered in ants can be good for any animal. Luckily I had a cleaned Exo terra glass terrarium just waiting for frogs so it was out of storage and cleaned. I put some plastic hangers in there for there chams to climb on and moved them all over. I kept having to break for phone meetings (luckily I had no early meetings in the office!) but eventually I got all the chameleons moved and the ant infested cage outside.

My wife sprayed orange guard and cleaned the area for me. Orange guard (essentially orange oil) is awesome for killing bugs and is relatively animal safe. I would never spray it in an enclosure (even though it is supposed to be harmless for reptiles and amphibians) but is safe to use in the same room unlike so many other toxins.

The Chameleons were obviously VERY stressed when I moved them. They all piled up in the temporary cage. It was very interesting to see this bunching behavior when scared I've heard reported for young Senegals. I wouldn't do it to them again if I can help it but it was an emergency and ultimately probably not very harmful in the long run.

So after an hour of hosing down and wiping off the cage and plants I was able to get their big enclosure set up and put them back into it. I moved the enclosure to another location until I am certain the ants are gone.

So ultimately I was late to work, covered in ants, and I'm sitting at my desk with wet socks from spraying down the enclosure... This is the type of thing that happens when you have Chameleons.