Reoccuring Clogged Tear Duct

[asdfghjkl5567]

Hey everyone! I've had my chameleon Pedro for almost a year now. I got him for free from a friend who works at petco. I've had two chameleons in the past that were got in the same way, one of which had a genetic eye issues that caused frequently stuck she in his eye. I am not new to taking in disabled lizards by somewhat sketchily obtaining them from petco when my friend knew they would die if they were not given to me. Pedro frequently gets clogged tear ducts because of his poor nutrition when he was younger at petco causing his tear ducts to be malformed. My vet has manually had to remove the clog once not by flushing but by "picking" out the clog with a small metal tool. I am usually able to free up and prevent the clogs myself with proper nutrition, warm showers, and gentle massages. Recently he has formed clogs on both eyes that are far worse than they've ever been before. They're not nearly as bad as some examples I've seen online though! I'm not too worried about urgency but I like to make his life as easy as possible with his disabilities. I am unable to go to the vet for at least 4-5 days because of the massive snow storm coming our way. Does anyone have any recommendations for how to make him as comfortable as possible before I can take him to the vet? I was also wondering what type of saline or eye wash is best for reptiles. I am unable to drive to a petstore at the moment because of the terrible ice but I can walk to a cvs if there are any human eye rinses that could work. Also, his eyes appear sunken in when he is scared or does not want to be bothered. when I look at him from across the room and he doesn't see me they are not sunken in like seen in the pictures. I promise he's a very hydrated boy! I have seen him sink his eyes in real time it's super freaky. Thanks for reading and I hope you stay warm if you're being affected by this nation wide storm.

 

[MissSkittles]

The best thing to do is make sure your humidity is correct (30-50%) and mist for at least 2 full minutes, twice daily. Warm showers are not recommended as what is warm to us can be scalding to them. The misting is much better, but don’t spray him directly. Eye drops probably will be of little value. I don’t know about massage, but I personally wouldn’t suggest or do it. When you do get to the vet, make sure they check for infection or other issue in his sinuses. For comfort, I would just leave him alone to do his thing rather than try anything which would stress him.

 

[asdfghjkl5567]

The best thing to do is make sure your humidity is correct (30-50%) and mist for at least 2 full minutes, twice daily. Warm showers are not recommended as what is warm to us can be scalding to them. The misting is much better, but don’t spray him directly. Eye drops probably will be of little value. I don’t know about massage, but I personally wouldn’t suggest or do it. When you do get to the vet, make sure they check for infection or other issue in his sinuses. For comfort, I would just leave him alone to do his thing rather than try anything which would stress him.

My vet suggested the showers to me years ago when I got my first chameleon with eye issues and it really does wonders. They tend to enjoy it a lot! I use a digital thermometer and set the water temp to 85 degrees. He doesn't sit directly under the shower stream but right next to it so he gets some mist. Also I know his humidity is all good and I have an automatic misting system. The massages are more of a gentle wiping with a wet qtip to get any debris or loose shed near his eye.

 

[LizardLurkin]

Hello, resident "reoccurring clogged tear duct" chameleon haver here.
Eye health can be linked to improper supplementation schedules, an infection of the eye, infection of the sinuses, birth defects, really all kinds of things! So it's most helpful if you can fill out this form so people can offer more specific advice.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

 

[asdfghjkl5567]

Hello, resident "reoccurring clogged tear duct" chameleon haver here.
Eye health can be linked to improper supplementation schedules, an infection of the eye, infection of the sinuses, birth defects, really all kinds of things! So it's most helpful if you can fill out this form so people can offer more specific advice.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

He is a male veiled chameleon approximately one year old. I’ve had him for 7ish months.

I handle him usually once a week to check on his eyes and general health.

He eats 10 medium Dubia roaches every other day that are gut loaded with potatoes or any other scrap fruit or vegetables we have that are safe for gut loaded. He will occasionally get hornworms for holidays like Christmas and gets wax worms or soldier fly larvae a few times a month.

I dust with pure calcium every feeding and reptivite multivitamins once a week (I know this is more often than generally recommended but this is what my vet specifically told me to do and I trust him)

I have an automatic mister that mists for two minutes at 9 am and 8:30 pm and 15 seconds at noon and midnight. He drinks from the mister droplets frequently and I see him chomp on leaves with water droplets. I have tried setting up a dripper but he ignores it. He only likes drinking from a fine mist or mistaking droplets for bugs and chomping on them.

White urate with normal fecal matter. No parasites.

History is that he was given to me for free from someone who works at Petco. She saw he was not being cared for properly and knew I have experience caring for disabled lizards. He had many trips to the vet while at Petco for his eye issues and the vet they took him to was not knowledgeable. He was not being fed well or given proper vitamins. We know that his clogged tear ducts were originally from a vitamin A deficiency which is why I was told to give him the multivitamins once a week. I now believe that his tear ducts didn’t grow properly because of the lack of nutrition at a young age. He is also smaller than he should be at his age.

Cage is fully screen with a clear shower curtain around the outside to keep in humidity and protect my walls. I believe it’s 2x2x4. I’m unsure of the brand I got it second hand.

I have a heat bulb that’s 75 watts I believe it’s zoo med but I don’t 100% remember. I have a t5 linear uvb bulb from reptisun.

Basking spot is 85 F with the coolest part of the cage being 70ish. At night it doesn’t get lower than 65. I have the cheap stick on analog thermometers so I can look at it at a glance and also digital thermometers.

Humidity peaks at 50% or a bit higher right after misting especially at the bottom of the cage near the plants but most of the day the humidity is at 40% and 30% at the absolute lowest. I use a cheap analog stick on hydrometer to look at a glance and also digital hydrometers.

I only use live plants. I have philodendrons, a bromeliad, a wandering Jew, a dracaena, and a pothos.

Cage is in the living room near front door but honestly I spend all day in the bedroom unless I’m caring for my animals because I’m a cyber student in college. We live in an apartment so the front door doesn’t actually lead outside and doesn’t have a draft. He isn’t near any windows, fans, radiators, or ac units. He’s just next to my two geckos but they can’t see eachother. He is on top of a small table so he’s as high up as he can be.

I’m located in Pennsylvania USA near Philly.

I hope this cleared things up!!

 

[LizardLurkin]

I will type my responses in bold.

He is a male veiled chameleon approximately one year old. I’ve had him for 7ish months.

I handle him usually once a week to check on his eyes and general health.

He eats 10 medium Dubia roaches every other day that are gut loaded with potatoes or any other scrap fruit or vegetables we have that are safe for gut loaded. He will occasionally get hornworms for holidays like Christmas and gets wax worms or soldier fly larvae a few times a month.
I'll paste the feeder and gutloading guide, as well as link the gutload ice cube video here (these keep in the freezer for several months).
Variety is key@ It's best to have at least 3 staple feeders. For me, that's dubia roaches, silkworms, and crickets or BSFL. Hornworms could be offered a lot more frequently than holiday treats. They're not as fatty as waxworms or superworms, are great for hydration, and also great for building trust since the color seems to attract them. I'd offer them monthly or bimonthly at least, getting a smaller number of them if you only have one animal that eats them.

I dust with pure calcium every feeding and reptivite multivitamins once a week (I know this is more often than generally recommended but this is what my vet specifically told me to do and I trust him)
Offering the multivitamin that frequently does give me pause. It is possible to overdose on vitamin A. One of my vets also recommended me to do this, and admittedly I never saw improvement on my guy's eye...
I will tag one of our smartest, vitamin savvy members @Beman for her thoughts.

I have an automatic mister that mists for two minutes at 9 am and 8:30 pm and 15 seconds at noon and midnight. He drinks from the mister droplets frequently and I see him chomp on leaves with water droplets. I have tried setting up a dripper but he ignores it. He only likes drinking from a fine mist or mistaking droplets for bugs and chomping on them.
I see no harm in offering the dripper just in case. Make sure it drips onto a big leaf.

White urate with normal fecal matter. No parasites.
I take this to mean he's been tested for parasites then? You don't really often observe them with the naked eye.

History is that he was given to me for free from someone who works at Petco. She saw he was not being cared for properly and knew I have experience caring for disabled lizards. He had many trips to the vet while at Petco for his eye issues and the vet they took him to was not knowledgeable. He was not being fed well or given proper vitamins. We know that his clogged tear ducts were originally from a vitamin A deficiency which is why I was told to give him the multivitamins once a week. I now believe that his tear ducts didn’t grow properly because of the lack of nutrition at a young age. He is also smaller than he should be at his age.
I've gone through many hypotheses myself, having taken my chameleon to a vet six times, seeing 3 different people. I would say that it is most important to keep an observant eye on his peepers. Lookout for discharge, crust, fogginess.
I am anxious to recommend anything over the counter from a human pharmacy, but I have bought fluker's reptarinse eye drops for my chameleon.
As skittle said, they're probably of little value, and of my own anecdotal evidence, I never ever saw a difference, personally. But it is reptile safe.
I do also wonder about the massages and the shower thing. I used to have my misters go off for an extended amount of time during his waking hours, but he only ever ran and hid from the spray. It never seemed to inspire him to clean his eyes so much as it seemed to annoy him.
What you theorize about his tear ducts is not much different from my situation. The last vet I saw was a reptile vet everyone in my state recommended, he came to the conclusion that my chameleon's eye issues were likely a cosmetic issue. I have my own thread about this issue, in case you want to peep it. Trust me, I went through the entire list of things it could be, scouring this forum and many other sites for eye issues of all kinds!
If your vet has ruled out infections, no infectious material ever came out during flushing, all the other things they should be checking, then it might be possible your chameleon is the same. Of course, always keep an eye on the situation. You know his eyes better than most. If you say it's gotten worse, then it isn't a bad idea to see a vet when you can. I might also suggest second opinions, or finding someone who has seen chameleons a fair amount. https://members.arav.org/ is good at sharing options, and maybe even googling your state + chameleon vet, see if anyone with a chameleon had a good experience at any given location.
Here's a pic of my guy, in all of his petco eye glory.

Cage is fully screen with a clear shower curtain around the outside to keep in humidity and protect my walls. I believe it’s 2x2x4. I’m unsure of the brand I got it second hand.
I used the clear shower curtain method in my first month, but it still felt like a lot of trouble. Here is a neat way to convert your screen cage into a hybrid cage that's super inexpensive and simple!

I have a heat bulb that’s 75 watts I believe it’s zoo med but I don’t 100% remember. I have a t5 linear uvb bulb from reptisun.
If you don't have a solarmeter, do make sure to replace the UVB every 6 months!

Basking spot is 85 F with the coolest part of the cage being 70ish. At night it doesn’t get lower than 65. I have the cheap stick on analog thermometers so I can look at it at a glance and also digital thermometers.
Sounds good.

Humidity peaks at 50% or a bit higher right after misting especially at the bottom of the cage near the plants but most of the day the humidity is at 40% and 30% at the absolute lowest. I use a cheap analog stick on hydrometer to look at a glance and also digital hydrometers.
Do you know how the night time humidity looks? Generally you want a spike of 80% or higher. More plants do help to achieve this!

I only use live plants. I have philodendrons, a bromeliad, a wandering Jew, a dracaena, and a pothos.
Live plants are great, especially since veileds will eat them. I think more than one pothos wouldn't hurt

Cage is in the living room near front door but honestly I spend all day in the bedroom unless I’m caring for my animals because I’m a cyber student in college. We live in an apartment so the front door doesn’t actually lead outside and doesn’t have a draft. He isn’t near any windows, fans, radiators, or ac units. He’s just next to my two geckos but they can’t see eachother. He is on top of a small table so he’s as high up as he can be.

I’m located in Pennsylvania USA near Philly.

I hope this cleared things up!!

 

[asdfghjkl5567]

I will type my responses in bold.

He is a male veiled chameleon approximately one year old. I’ve had him for 7ish months.

I handle him usually once a week to check on his eyes and general health.

He eats 10 medium Dubia roaches every other day that are gut loaded with potatoes or any other scrap fruit or vegetables we have that are safe for gut loaded. He will occasionally get hornworms for holidays like Christmas and gets wax worms or soldier fly larvae a few times a month.
I'll paste the feeder and gutloading guide, as well as link the gutload ice cube video here (these keep in the freezer for several months).
Variety is key@ It's best to have at least 3 staple feeders. For me, that's dubia roaches, silkworms, and crickets or BSFL. Hornworms could be offered a lot more frequently than holiday treats. They're not as fatty as waxworms or superworms, are great for hydration, and also great for building trust since the color seems to attract them. I'd offer them monthly or bimonthly at least, getting a smaller number of them if you only have one animal that eats them.
View attachment 368202View attachment 368203

I dust with pure calcium every feeding and reptivite multivitamins once a week (I know this is more often than generally recommended but this is what my vet specifically told me to do and I trust him)
Offering the multivitamin that frequently does give me pause. It is possible to overdose on vitamin A. One of my vets also recommended me to do this, and admittedly I never saw improvement on my guy's eye...
I will tag one of our smartest, vitamin savvy members @Beman for her thoughts.

I have an automatic mister that mists for two minutes at 9 am and 8:30 pm and 15 seconds at noon and midnight. He drinks from the mister droplets frequently and I see him chomp on leaves with water droplets. I have tried setting up a dripper but he ignores it. He only likes drinking from a fine mist or mistaking droplets for bugs and chomping on them.
I see no harm in offering the dripper just in case. Make sure it drips onto a big leaf.

White urate with normal fecal matter. No parasites.
I take this to mean he's been tested for parasites then? You don't really often observe them with the naked eye.

History is that he was given to me for free from someone who works at Petco. She saw he was not being cared for properly and knew I have experience caring for disabled lizards. He had many trips to the vet while at Petco for his eye issues and the vet they took him to was not knowledgeable. He was not being fed well or given proper vitamins. We know that his clogged tear ducts were originally from a vitamin A deficiency which is why I was told to give him the multivitamins once a week. I now believe that his tear ducts didn’t grow properly because of the lack of nutrition at a young age. He is also smaller than he should be at his age.
I've gone through many hypotheses myself, having taken my chameleon to a vet six times, seeing 3 different people. I would say that it is most important to keep an observant eye on his peepers. Lookout for discharge, crust, fogginess.
I am anxious to recommend anything over the counter from a human pharmacy, but I have bought fluker's reptarinse eye drops for my chameleon.
As skittle said, they're probably of little value, and of my own anecdotal evidence, I never ever saw a difference, personally. But it is reptile safe.
I do also wonder about the massages and the shower thing. I used to have my misters go off for an extended amount of time during his waking hours, but he only ever ran and hid from the spray. It never seemed to inspire him to clean his eyes so much as it seemed to annoy him.
What you theorize about his tear ducts is not much different from my situation. The last vet I saw was a reptile vet everyone in my state recommended, he came to the conclusion that my chameleon's eye issues were likely a cosmetic issue. I have my own thread about this issue, in case you want to peep it. Trust me, I went through the entire list of things it could be, scouring this forum and many other sites for eye issues of all kinds!
If your vet has ruled out infections, no infectious material ever came out during flushing, all the other things they should be checking, then it might be possible your chameleon is the same. Of course, always keep an eye on the situation. You know his eyes better than most. If you say it's gotten worse, then it isn't a bad idea to see a vet when you can. I might also suggest second opinions, or finding someone who has seen chameleons a fair amount. https://members.arav.org/ is good at sharing options, and maybe even googling your state + chameleon vet, see if anyone with a chameleon had a good experience at any given location.
Here's a pic of my guy, in all of his petco eye glory.
View attachment 368206
Cage is fully screen with a clear shower curtain around the outside to keep in humidity and protect my walls. I believe it’s 2x2x4. I’m unsure of the brand I got it second hand.
I used the clear shower curtain method in my first month, but it still felt like a lot of trouble. Here is a neat way to convert your screen cage into a hybrid cage that's super inexpensive and simple!

I have a heat bulb that’s 75 watts I believe it’s zoo med but I don’t 100% remember. I have a t5 linear uvb bulb from reptisun.
If you don't have a solarmeter, do make sure to replace the UVB every 6 months!

Basking spot is 85 F with the coolest part of the cage being 70ish. At night it doesn’t get lower than 65. I have the cheap stick on analog thermometers so I can look at it at a glance and also digital thermometers.
Sounds good.

Humidity peaks at 50% or a bit higher right after misting especially at the bottom of the cage near the plants but most of the day the humidity is at 40% and 30% at the absolute lowest. I use a cheap analog stick on hydrometer to look at a glance and also digital hydrometers.
Do you know how the night time humidity looks? Generally you want a spike of 80% or higher. More plants do help to achieve this!

I only use live plants. I have philodendrons, a bromeliad, a wandering Jew, a dracaena, and a pothos.
Live plants are great, especially since veileds will eat them. I think more than one pothos wouldn't hurt

Cage is in the living room near front door but honestly I spend all day in the bedroom unless I’m caring for my animals because I’m a cyber student in college. We live in an apartment so the front door doesn’t actually lead outside and doesn’t have a draft. He isn’t near any windows, fans, radiators, or ac units. He’s just next to my two geckos but they can’t see eachother. He is on top of a small table so he’s as high up as he can be.

I’m located in Pennsylvania USA near Philly.

I hope this cleared things up!!

I will definitely look into getting him some more variety for feeders especially more horn worms because he loves them a lot! I have to order all of my insects online because my closest pet store is a Petco and I do have a personal vendetta against them. (Also their feeders are poor quality and pricey!!) do you have any website recommendations? I get my roaches auto shipped through Chewy monthly.

This may seem a bit silly but I absolutely hate leafy greens so I rarely have them in the house unless it’s spinach for when I cook curry. Is it worth it to buy leafy greens for the roaches specifically and freeze it so it lasts longer? I’m more of a fruit person.

I will talk to my vet when I see him next about the vitamin A. I am aware that vitamin A over doses are a thing and i was concerned about this as well when it was recommended. At first the once a week multivitamin was for until the eye problem cleared, but since it hasn’t cleared yet I think I will stop with the weekly and do monthly.

He was tested for parasites and it was negative .

 

[asdfghjkl5567]

I will definitely look into getting him some more variety for feeders especially more horn worms because he loves them a lot! I have to order all of my insects online because my closest pet store is a Petco and I do have a personal vendetta against them. (Also their feeders are poor quality and pricey!!) do you have any website recommendations? I get my roaches auto shipped through Chewy monthly.

This may seem a bit silly but I absolutely hate leafy greens so I rarely have them in the house unless it’s spinach for when I cook curry. Is it worth it to buy leafy greens for the roaches specifically and freeze it so it lasts longer? I’m more of a fruit person.

I will talk to my vet when I see him next about the vitamin A. I am aware that vitamin A over doses are a thing and i was concerned about this as well when it was recommended. At first the once a week multivitamin was for until the eye problem cleared, but since it hasn’t cleared yet I think I will stop with the weekly and do monthly.

He was tested for parasites and it was negative .

(Cont.) My vet I’ve been going to since I was 13 and I’m 22 now. He’s gotten very old and honestly I think might be losing it a bit. It’s such a shame because he used to be soooo wonderful. I am going to spend a lot of time after my next appointment with him looking for a new vet not only because of that but because I moved kinda far away from him. I would love to find a chameleon specialist. Also your cham is super super cute and his eye looks just like my cham’s eye!!

He has never had any crust, discharge, or fogginess. Just the occasional shedding into his eye instead of away from his eye which my previous chameleons dealt with because of genetic issues as well.

This may sound silly but I have my clear shower curtain fashioned in a way that it is the bottom of my enclosure so I can dump out any drainage from my plants easily. I also forgot to mention I have a humidifier meant for humans that I have the shower curtain over to direct the fog into the enclosure over night. When I want to clean the bottom of the enclosure it’s just a matter of taking out the plants on the bottom and rinsing the whole shower curtain. It looks not very appealing though and I do like the look of the video you sent so I might invest in that soon!!

Thank you for the reminder because I do need to order a new one this month!!

My night humidity is 80-100% more often 100% than 80%.

I actually have 3 pothos and multiple propagations in my fish tank at the moment. They’re very fun to twirl around sticks and they’re great additions to my fish tank as well. They grow like crazyyyy in my enclosure and my tank I have to give some away soon haha.

 

[Beman]

Reduce your multivitamin to 2 times a month. What your boy has going on is not connected to vitamin A deficiency. You do not want to deal with overdose issues with vitamin A and D3. Both of these are fat soluble so they just store in the body. They do not flush like the water soluble vitamin. So they continue to build up which can become dangerous for organ function and other functions.

You need to get in with a good chameleon vet. More than likely there is something clogging the eye causing the bubble. Probably needs to be flushed really well and a topical antibiotic. @MissSkittles can you add the vet list?

 

[MissSkittles]

Here it is.