Potential Veiled Owner!

L

Littlefoot9

New Member
For years I have always wanted a snake, but living with my family I was never able to have one. I'm now moving out and what better roommate than a reptile? I went around to local stores just to see the different species and I cam across a store with a baby veiled chameleon. The second I held him my heart melted and I feel head over heels in love! I've been researching as much as I can to make sure this is something I can afford and commit too. I don't want to buy one only to have it suffer from my lack of knowledge. I am the only one in my family not scared to death of lizards/snakes/frogs/etc. so I've never had any kind of reptile before. That being said, I have a lot of questions!

This is the home I am looking at currently:
18x18x36 Aluminum Cage


I don't want to cheap out, I want my cham to be comfortable, but I am on a budget. If there are more affordable things out there that work equally as well I would be more than open to suggestions!


For humidity I've seen the mistking starter system mentioned quite a lot. I would like to eventually invest in this but for now I'm going to start out with a mister bottle and dripper.


I read a recommendation for astroturf as substrate because you can cut two pieces the same size, change one out when it gets dirty, then just clean the other one for next time. Does that work all right? Does cleaning the cage only entail the changing of the substrate or would I need to get the whole cage outside and hose it down? Do chameleons or the cages ever smell? If so, how bad?

I've seen a lot of people say the best thing for draining is to drill a hole and caulk some kind of tubing there leading to a bucket. Is that really the best way or is there some kind of draining system I could invest in? I'd assume it's probably the more affordable. I'm sure if I had to I could figure it out, but normally I'm not very handy with things like that.


I'm not very good with plants but I want to give him a real tree to live on. I'm going to check around the local nurseries and see if I can find a ficus. Does the misting pretty much keep the tree alive or is there anything else I'll need to do to care for it? I also read that I'd need to keep rocks on the soil to keep my cham from getting into it, is that true?

Lighting is not something I have a lot of experience with. I've seen the reptiglo 5.0 tube light recommended a good bit. Would this be the only light I would need? What about at night? I live in South Louisiana and while it is pretty warm down here, in the winter it can get down in the 30s. If I have to turn the light off at night for him to sleep how do I keep him warm? Special night light? Are there timers I can get for the lights so if I get caught at work he doesn't have to stay up all night? At the store they told me I should keep two thermometers, one on top and one on bottom, to monitor the heat gradient. Also one that measure humidity. Do traditional work better than digital or vice versa?


Crickets are not hard to find around here. I don't have a whole lot of experience with keeping them either. Would I be alright just keeping them in a KricketKeeper? They had one at Petsmart with a tube coming out of the side to get them in the cage easier without them all hopping everywhere. They also had a jar of this gelatin looking stuff that's supposed to be food for them and help gutload them. Does that really work or what what I need to feed them? Also which dust is the best to use for dusting? They had a thing called a cricket shaker to help dusting, is that what I would use? Do I need different kinds of dust?

For feeding how often would I need to switch his diet up? I read that they will eat A LOT when they are young if you let them, but that that can be bad for them. 5-8 crickets a day until they get older? How long before I need to wean it down to every other day?


I know they are solitary and can't be kept out for hours at a time, how long is too long for him to be out of the cage? Are chameleons like snakes in the sense they never really get used to you? Or will he eventually recognize me at least even if it's for food? How often a day should I handle him for him to get accustomed?

What all do the different colors mean? The guy at the store said dark green was for more alert, like predators being around. Is bright green just relaxed? Are there any colors I should be worried about seeing?


That's all that's coming to mind right now. I know it's a lot but I really want to learn as much as possible before committing to one. I'd like an idea of what I'm getting into so I don't end up biting off more than I can chew. Like I said, I don't want my chameleon to have to suffer for my lack of knowledge and failure to prepare ahead of time.

I feel like I should trust the advice of experienced owners more than just a book or some guy at the store. Thanks to anyone that actually takes the time to read this! :)
 
I must say, it's very nice to see someone who is doing their homework BEFORE purchasing a chameleon. Kudos to you, and welcome to the forums. :)

Here is a good starting point: https://www.chameleonforums.com/general-care-true-chameleons-5943/

Read up, and post any questions you still have afterward.

I will answer a couple of your questions briefly though.

I wouldn't use astroturf as substrate because it will be hard to clean. For chams, generally no substrate is best. If anything, just use paper towels.

Live plants are GREAT - just make sure you wash them with warm water and dish soap to remove any pesticides. Yes, it is ideal to have large stones covering the soil to prevent your cham from ingesting any sticks, fertilizer, etc.

The 18 x 18 x 36 cage is a great starting cage for your cham. He or she will eventually need a 24 x 24 x 48 adult cage, but not for about 7-8 months or so.

Do you know if the cham you're looking at is male or female? It's very easy to tell with veileds. The males have tarsal spurs on the back of their feet (little bumps between their toes), and the females don't. Just Google "tarsal spurs" to see an example. The reason I ask is because I don't know if you are aware that females require special care because most of them lay eggs regardless of whether they mate or not. If they don't have a proper laying bin with moist sand at least 12 inches deep, they can retain their eggs, become eggbound and die. Here is a blog from one of our very experienced and knowledgeable members about female egg laying: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/jannb/345-egg-laying-laying-bin.html

Also, you are correct that you will need a UVB light, but actually the Reptisun is the more reputable brand than Reptiglo. The general consensus here is that the Reptisun 5.0 tube light is best. That is not the only light you will need though. The cham will also need a basking light. You can use a regular house bulb for that. I have a 34 Watt for my baby's basking bulb, and that keeps his basking temperature at about 82, which is ideal for babies. For males you can increase their basking temperatures slightly as they get older, but for females it should never get much higher than 82 in order to prevent them from developing huge clutches of eggs.

That should be plenty of info to get you started. Read the blogs, and let us know what other questions you have. :)
 
Also, your lights should be on a regular 12 on/12 off schedule. My lights are on a timer and they come on at 9:00 AM and go off at 9:00 PM every day. Chams do not need any heat source at night UNLESS the temp inside your house drops abnormally low, like below 65. Also, they do sleep all night, and any light tends to bother them. So red night lights, etc are a no for them.

I know you asked more questions, but the blogs I posted should answer a lot of them. So just let us know after you read them if you still have unanswered questions.
 
Littlefoot9 said:
For years I have always wanted a snake, but living with my family I was never able to have one. I'm now moving out and what better roommate than a reptile? I went around to local stores just to see the different species and I cam across a store with a baby veiled chameleon. The second I held him my heart melted and I feel head over heels in love! I've been researching as much as I can to make sure this is something I can afford and commit too. I don't want to buy one only to have it suffer from my lack of knowledge. I am the only one in my family not scared to death of lizards/snakes/frogs/etc. so I've never had any kind of reptile before. That being said, I have a lot of questions!

This is the home I am looking at currently:
18x18x36 Aluminum Cage

If its a male, you'll need a 24x24x36 cage when its an adult.If you look at DIY cages, they have one for $95 shipped.

I don't want to cheap out, I want my cham to be comfortable, but I am on a budget. If there are more affordable things out there that work equally as well I would be more than open to suggestions!


For humidity I've seen the mistking starter system mentioned quite a lot. I would like to eventually invest in this but for now I'm going to start out with a mister bottle and dripper.
For one cham, its alright to have a water bottle if you are sure you're gonna mist him. The mistking is an awesome buy.

I read a recommendation for astroturf as substrate because you can cut two pieces the same size, change one out when it gets dirty, then just clean the other one for next time. Does that work all right? Does cleaning the cage only entail the changing of the substrate or would I need to get the whole cage outside and hose it down? Do chameleons or the cages ever smell? If so, how bad?
No no no no.. no substrate whatsoever. I've read some use it, i wouldnt just because we all know we sometimes get lazy. Its better to have a bare bottom, and spot clean it with some paper towels.. The cages will not smell. Sometimes if you overwater the plants inside and not let them dry out, it'll give a little stench.

I've seen a lot of people say the best thing for draining is to drill a hole and caulk some kind of tubing there leading to a bucket. Is that really the best way or is there some kind of draining system I could invest in? I'd assume it's probably the more affordable. I'm sure if I had to I could figure it out, but normally I'm not very handy with things like that.

This topic has gone around many times. There is really no definite answer. You do what you think is best and thats it.

I'm not very good with plants but I want to give him a real tree to live on. I'm going to check around the local nurseries and see if I can find a ficus. Does the misting pretty much keep the tree alive or is there anything else I'll need to do to care for it? I also read that I'd need to keep rocks on the soil to keep my cham from getting into it, is that true?
Get a schefflera and not a ficus. The schefflera is much easier to take care of than the ficus. It's pretty much dumb-proof. With all the water you're going to be misting, it'll be enough. What you gotta do is switch the soil to organic soil and then place some large river rocks on top just so the cham cannot ingest the soil.

Lighting is not something I have a lot of experience with. I've seen the reptiglo 5.0 tube light recommended a good bit. Would this be the only light I would need? What about at night? I live in South Louisiana and while it is pretty warm down here, in the winter it can get down in the 30s. If I have to turn the light off at night for him to sleep how do I keep him warm? Special night light? Are there times I can get for the lights so if I get caught at work he doesn't have to stay up all night? At the store they told me I should keep two thermometers, one on top and one on bottom, to monitor the heat gradient. Also one that measure humidity. Do traditional work better than digital or vice versa?
Reptiglo 5.0 or reptisun 5.0 work just fine. You'll need to switch them out every 6 months. you'll need to have a basking light that will give you the appropriate temperature for your cham. A 60w bulb usually does the trick Lights out at night, obviously. If the temperatures in his cage get down below 60 degrees, then you could get a ceramic heat emitter. Get timers so the lights turn on and off at the same time every day. You should have thermometers to measure temperature at the basking spot and the ambient temp. Also a hygrometer is important. get the digital ones, flukers has some. You can also get an infrared thermometer, its a little bit more expensive, but its easier to use.

Crickets are not hard to find around here. I don't have a whole lot of experience with keeping them either. Would I be alright just keeping them in a KricketKeeper? They had one at Petsmart with a tube coming out of the side to get them in the cage easier without them all hopping everywhere. They also had a jar of this gelatin looking stuff that's supposed to be food for them and help gutload them. Does that really work or what what I need to feed them? Also which dust is the best to use for dusting? They had a thing called a cricket shaker to help dusting, is that what I would use? Do I need different kinds of dust?
Rubbermaid container, cut out some 4x4" squares on each side and put screen on the holes so you have airflow. Thats a better way to keep them. Use those carton egg things in there. You have to gutload your crickets with fruits and veggies. Sandrachameleon has a veeery good blog about gutloading. Look it up.
You need:
herptivite w/o D3
Calcium w/o D3
Calcium w/ D3.

Dust the crickets every feeding with the calcium WITHOUT D3. Dust the crickets 2x a month with the herptivite and 2x a month with the calcium WITH D3. Its very easy to do this. Use a cup, put in the dust, put in the crickets, and shake.

For feeding how often would I need to switch his diet up? I read that they will eat A LOT when they are young if you let them, but that that can be bad for them. 5-8 crickets a day until they get older? How long before I need to wean it down to every other day?

Crickets or dubias as staple food source. You can give them tons of other insects too (just check that they are safe to feed). When they are babies, give them plenty to eat. As much as they can eat in 5 minutes, and then leave some for alter. When they get to the 8 month range, reduce to feeding a little bit every other day. Key thing is not to feed anything that is larger than the distance between the eyes (worms are an exception, they are long, but thin).
I know they are solitary and can't be kept out for hours at a time, how long is too long for him to be out of the cage? Are chameleons like snakes in the sense they never really get used to you? Or will he eventually recognize me at least even if it's for food? How often a day should I handle him for him to get accustomed?
Each cham is different. Once you begin to understan their behavior, you'll see when they want to be back in. I rarely take my guys out. I rather jsut have them be happy inside. They will learn that you are the source of their food. My female will be right up against her cage when she sees me walking with the cup with crickets. They dont like to be handled, but usually there are exceptions. Veileds are very pissy, so its harder to have a nice one.

What all do the different colors mean? The guy at the store said dark green was for more alert, like predators being around. Is bright green just relaxed? Are there any colors I should be worried about seeing?
guy at the petstore doesnt know much usually. Chameleons will fire up really nicely when impressing a female or when threatening a male. Their relaxed colors are duller. They do NOT change color in order to blend un with their environment. They have a base of colors which is natural camouflage, but the change of coloration is a way of speaking to eachother.

That's all that's coming to mind right now. I know it's a lot but I really want to learn as much as possible before committing to one. I'd like an idea of what I'm getting into so I don't end up biting off more than I can chew. Like I said, I don't want my chameleon to have to suffer for my lack of knowledge and failure to prepare ahead of time.

I feel like I should trust the advice of experienced owners more than just a book or some guy at the store. Thanks to anyone that actually takes the time to read this! :)
Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum. And if I may suggest.. dont buy him from a petstore. Get him from one of the site sponsors, you'll be safer that way.
 
Both very heplful replies! When I get off work tonight I'm definitely going to sit down and read both of those blogs!

I am going to be in the market for a male more than likely, just because I'd be too nervous with a female since I don't feel I know enough about the species just yet.


And I haven't quite decided on where to purchase one. I was going to see if I could possibly find a local breeder once it gets closer to purchase time.

As much as I did fall in love with the one at the store, after researching, it's probably not the best idea. Especially since they had about 5 in one tank. Which makes me very sad now knowing that they are solitary.

I'm concerned about having one shipped because I'm going to be in an apartment complex and I'd like to keep it quiet so they don't up my rent for having a pet (they seem a little strict on that, you have to pay for anything bigger than a goldfish).


Is there another kind anyone would recommend other than a veiled that's in the same price range? I think the veiled is absolutely adorable, and I like that I don't have to handle it and show it attention all day, but I would like to take him out every once in awhile and hang out. If they're pissy about it, is there a kind more laid back with a similar cost?
 
There are the jacksons..they are smaller and I believe more laid back, but you'd have to switch around many of the things I said because their care is different.
 
Is the setup more expensive than a veiled? Doing the math right now that may be the only thing I can comfortably afford.
 
setup is basically the same, but you have to make variations in temperature, supplementation, humidity, etc.

The cage for a jacksons can also be smaller.
 
That's not bad at all! I'll definitely keep Jacksons in mind too then. Ultimately it'll pobably come down to what I can find in my area though.
 
Thank you all for the help! This seems like such a nice community! Not an easy thing to find nowadays! :)

I move into my new place in a few weeks and once I get settled I'll be able to start getting his home together. I will post pictures of my finished setup for last minute feedback before I purchase!
 
Littlefoot9 said:
I'm concerned about having one shipped because I'm going to be in an apartment complex and I'd like to keep it quiet so they don't up my rent for having a pet (they seem a little strict on that, you have to pay for anything bigger than a goldfish).
Click to expand...

If you do have one shipped, just have it held at your local UPS or Fedex hub for pickup. This way your apartment complex won't know about it, and plus it's better for the cham to do that anyway. If you pick him up directly from a hub, it's that much less time he'll be rattling around in the back of one of those trucks (and the local delivery trucks can get pretty hot this time of year). Also, you don't have to worry about him sitting in your leasing office forever. I don't know about your apartment complex, but mine gives us ZERO notice when we receive a package. No call, no slip in our mailbox, nothing. We just have to go up there every now and then to check and see if they've gotten any for us recently.
 
Also, in defense of veileds - Not every single one is pissy. Sure, they are not generally the sweetest chams, but that doesn't mean they are mean or will always dislike you. My female, who I have only had for about a month, is starting to warm up to me really nicely. She doesn't love to be held (currently), but she doesn't fight it either. She certainly recognizes me and she doesn't really react to my presence one way or another.

My little boy, however, hasn't quite gotten used to me yet. I have only had him for 9 days, and he still backs away when I come near. He may grow out of this, he may not. I believe he will though.
 
I know its early but I've been checking out some of the chameleons for sale through the sponsors of the site and I've come across a couple that I really like.

I did check out tiki tiki reptiles and I found one on there I liked, but I found another on FLChams with coloration that I liked even more. I called to see the possibility of them having a male I could purchase in about a month and they told me it was highly likely.

This is one from the same bloodline:
28gqp3t.jpg



Since I'm new to this, has anyone had any bad experiences with FLChams?
 
My female veiled is daughter to Newton. Mike and everyone that works with him is awesome. I always recommend FLChams.
Just remember that just because the sire looks like that does not mean the baby will be like that.
 
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