possibly gravid veiled? Not sure!

[burnedrose]

First off, I'm new, so HI!

Anyway, I purchased a juvenile veiled back in April. She was about a month to two months - she was a rescue case from a horrible pet store and they didn't know how old she was. I'd estimate that she is now between 5 and 7 months old. I've been anxiously awaiting her to become gravid so i can get her sandbox set up for her...but I haven't noticed any of the typical signs, ie coloration, aggressive towards me, etc etc.

I noticed, recently, that she has cut back on eating her crickets, but she is drinking regularly. her stomach is slightly heavy looking - although I wouldn't say bloated, just well-fed. She has never reacted aggressively to me and climbs onto my hand when I open the door to her cage, so i feel like aggressiveness would be a huge indicator. She hasn't had a shed in about a month and a half, and I know she usually slows down eating before a big shed, but I am most concerned that she was gravid and I missed it.

She had one day where she looked like she might have been gravid due to her coloring, but if she was, it was an extremely light color change and it could have been due to stress in her environment - I gave her cage an extremely thorough cleaning the day before. It didn't occur to me that she could have been gravid because none of the signs were pointing to YES. This was about a week ago.

I am concerned, now, that she was, in fact, gravid that day and is now retaining her eggs.

Is there any surefire way to check? I have to work all day tomorrow and then her vet is closed on sunday, so Im stuck up the creek without a paddle until monday. I am just concerned and would like someone to help put my mind at ease or give me a head's up on what to do. Sorry for any repost of a similar question. Hope to hear from y'all soon!

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - female veiled, between 5-7 months old, roughly 6-8 inches long from nose to tip of tail
Handling - She is handled every other day
Feeding - she gets crickets 3-4x a week, depending on how many she ate. Usually 8-10 medium sized crickets, gut loaded with Fluker's.
Supplements - Fluker's cricket gut loading feed
Watering - misted 3x a day and she drinks
Fecal Description - tested once, negative. fecal droppings normal color
History - She was a rescue case, so unknown on her age.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - screen 24x24 and 30 high. but her new 'big girl cage' is 36x36 and 48 high, but she's still too tiny for that.
Lighting - UV lamp and natural sunlight during the day. Light goes on at 10am, stays on until 8pm. purple night lamp
Temperature - Multiple thermometer strips in the cage. temp ranges from 72 (day) at the bottom and 82 at the light. then about 68 (night) at the bottom and 76 at the night light
Humidity - I need humidity in ym bedroom for my lungs and I need to be kept at 65% humidity, so she is kept in my room at 65% humidity, using a humidifier if needed.
Plants - No, all silk.
Placement - Bedside table, near my window.
Location - upstate NY

Current Problem - see above

 

[KarmaChameleon1337]

Do you have a thing of deep washed play sand or dirt for her just in case? Always good just in case, if she starts digging don't bother or let her see you watching.

 

[burnedrose]

Yes I do. I have a small play sand box sitting in the cage, just in case. I put it in today and kinda just ignored it, but when shifting through it tonight, noticed nothing.

 

[KarmaChameleon1337]

Last minute I'd ask a friend to take her in to the vet for me.

 

[DavidBuchan]

If she doesn't seem agitated at all, and you have an adequate laying bin, I can't see any problem.

If you have any concerns it helps if you fill out the form -


Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.


Pictures are helpful

 

[burnedrose]

done. sorry, was in such a rush typing this up that I forgot to copy-pasta the form.

 

[ataraxia]

any pictures of her? do you see any signs of eggs in the belly?

if you are for sure she is. try some sand (12-24 inches) in a semi large trash can. place the trash can in a low traffic area. put her in the bin in the morning and see how it goes for a day. if she does not lay for you and is still eating. inject her first feeder of a day with some liquid calcium or force feed liquid calcium to her. make sure her lights are up to par also.

 

[kinyonga]

There is no way to tell for sure if she is past the point where she can lay the eggs. Most people figure it out when they start to go down hill...and that's usually too late.

Hopefully if you have an appropriate container in her cage for her to dig is she will still use it. (Container should be opaque and at least 12" deep x 12" x 8", filled almost full with washed playsand that is moist enough to hold a tunnel).

You need to look at improving your supplements and gutloading/feeding of the insects...here's some information about both and the reasoning behind it..
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

A wide variety of insects that have been well fed and gutloaded should be fed to it. At that size you only need to feed it every two or three days. Feed it enough that it doesn't get fat (and, of course, doesn't get thin either).

Since many of the feeder insects we use in captivity have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.

Here are some good sites for you to read too...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.

 

[burnedrose]

Honestly, I've been working with what I know has worked for my other chameleons in the past as well as vet reccomendations. I am hesitant to change because I don't want to tinker around with something I know works. I've been raising chameleons for about 6 years now and I feel comfortable with what I know works for me in my health condition.

I do "gut load" insects with veggies, but I've never heard of it referred to as gut loading, but rather just feeding them. lol. Crickets and worms need to eat too! They eat kale and some zucchini fresh out of my garden. And the crickets are always dusted before feeding - that's a no-brainer, I figured.

Regarding her light, she gets direct, not-through-a-glass sunlight. I open my window everyday before I leave for work and she gets her sunlight and heat through that so well that many times the lamp is just redundant. My room gets direct sunlight, which sucks for me when I am home, but is perfect for her.

 

[ataraxia]

i can see how you feel on your care as it has worked out for you and that is good.

what happens in the winter with the heat and uvb?
how old or how long have you been able to keep a single chameleon?

quoting you:
Lighting - UV lamp and natural sunlight during the day. Light goes on at 10am, stays on until 8pm. purple night lamp
Temperature - Multiple thermometer strips in the cage. temp ranges from 72 (day) at the bottom and 82 at the light. then about 68 (night) at the bottom and 76 at the night light

what are the temps in the direct sunlight?
no need for a night light.

 

[DavidBuchan]

i can see how you feel on your care as it has worked out for you and that is good.

what are the temps in the direct sunlight?
no need for a night light.

Not only no need, but 68 is a better night time temp for veileds anyway. The night time drop is what they would expect in nature of course. I expect it's doing no harm, as it's worked so far, but Chams don't bask at night (they sleep, and no light is better, even if it is a purple bulb.......)

 

[burnedrose]

To be honest, i got her back in April and it was warming up quick...but it was still cool, hence the purple night lamp. It's just become a force of habit to turn it off in the am and on at night. So I haven't really planned out what to do when it gets cold. However, the heat for my bedroom runs through the wall next to my bed, so I'm contemplating moving my bed over a bit and putting her cage on the other side.

My oldest chameleon was a full-grown Jackson male when I bought him and he lived for three years more under my care. I am assuming he was at least 12-16 months when I got him, so he lived a full healthy life. I've had two Veiled live to three years before I had to give them away when I moved and the new owner told me they passed away within months of him getting them. When I moved from hawaii I also had to give away my female Jackson and last I heard the gentleman who adopted her, who was trying to start his own breeding colony out there, said she is one of the top female producers in his colony. That was about 2.5-3 years ago and I got her as a baby, so she is doing well.

On the plus side, I think she is gravid. I put her sandbox in today and told my roommate to keep her eyes peeled, just in case K2 took a turn for the worst. She called me mid day to say K2 was digging around. I checked the sandbox when i got home from work and no eggs...yet, but you could tell she was checking out the box, trying to find an appropriate spot, so yay! As I was about to hit enter and post this, I heard so scurrying around - she's back to digging around, so maybe egg time soon!

*tear* my little baby is all growed up!

 

[kinyonga]

Do not let her see you watching her when she's digging. It can make the chameleon abandon the hole....and if it happens often enough...lead to eggbinding.

 

[burnedrose]

Oh, I know. don't worry.

 

[kinyonga]

Always better to mention some things...just in case the person doesn't know.