Possible mouth infection?

[anders890]

I have a T.Ellioti female who has the last week having problem with closing her mouth and chewing food. But she has eating regulary with good aptit!
Today her "teeth-row" fall off from her right side of the jaw, and she has tried to scrath them off against branches in her cage for a couple of days.
Will post pics here, maybe someone can give me any advice of what to do..
/Anders

 

[Lathis]

Go to the vet. NOW. Bone loss this extreme is severe. She likely has an infection so deep it is destroying bone material. This will be fatal without treatment and may already be.

 

[leedragon]

I have a T.Ellioti female who has the last week having problem with closing her mouth and chewing food. But she has eating regulary with good aptit!
Today her "teeth-row" fall off from her right side of the jaw, and she has tried to scrath them off against branches in her cage for a couple of days.
Will post pics here, maybe someone can give me any advice of what to do..
/Anders

what the actually ** never seem that before, there are some vets who are in this site hope some of them can give you advice

 

[carol5208]

Oh my gosh! That is horrible. I think there is nothing left for you to do but get her to a vet immediately. I have never seen the whole bone with teeth fall out like that.

 

[kinyonga]

I had a chameleon that had a big chunk of the dental arcade come out like that during surgery for a massive infection she came in with. She was wild caught and had the infection when I got her. I have to say get her to the vets asap too.

 

[anders890]

I have talked to the vet on phone today, going there on wednesday.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I have talked to the vet on phone today, going there on wednesday.

Wednesday? The lower jaw bone of your chameleon falls out from a massive bone infection and you can't get in until Wednesday? For many reasons this can't wait until Wednesday. Bone infections are very difficult to treat at the best of times and waiting isn't something that should be contemplated. Even if you do not expect to try to save this chameleon, animal welfare would suggest a trip to the vet is in order today just to relieve her suffering.

 

[anders890]

I could'nt get any time before wednesday, I have booked at a vet clinic who are specialized at reptiles, best in the country. So stop complaining!

 

[jajeanpierre]

I could'nt get any time before wednesday, I have booked at a vet clinic who are specialized at reptiles, best in the country. So stop complaining!

Most vet clinics will see your animal on an emergency basis whether they are over booked or not. Or they refer you somewhere else.

 

[Djturna4thakidz]

Most vet clinics will see your animal on an emergency basis whether they are over booked or not. Or they refer you somewhere else.

Second this. I would not wait that long. Just take him in. I saw a case similar to this, but definitely not as severe. It did not end well for the chameleon and he just lost one tooth, not an entire section of jaw. This is most likely indicative of a bad infection and needs immediate attention.

 

[leedragon]

Second this. I would not wait that long. Just take him in. I saw a case similar to this, but definitely not as severe. It did not end well for the chameleon and he just lost one tooth, not an entire section of jaw. This is most likely indicative of a bad infection and needs immediate attention.

he is not waiting he has gone to get a time with the vet, this is out of his control now

 

[anders890]

Update: Today we visited the vet, as we suspetced the infection hade going on for a long time, and now resulted in these serious problems with the mouth/jaw.
I had absolute no chance to save here now, even if i had going directly to vet on monday, like some people here said..
The infection was probably in her body when I got here for about 9 months ago.. (I think she is wc, most of these species are wc in Europe, not many breeders here)
The vet gav me antibiotics to give here for 6 weeks, every day, just to slow the infection down, because it's impossible to stop it.
The only thing that worry me is the stress I will cause here when im giving antibiotics in her mouth every day.

 

[Lathis]

Poor little girl. You are probably correct that she had this infection for a very long time. Even with antibiotics, can she recover with severe deterioration to her jaw bones? It breaks my heart, but did you discuss with the vet whether it would be better to euthanize her?

Antibiotics can be very hard on the body, so make sure that she is well hydrated. Lots of warm showers, lots of misting, and soft bugs like silkworms if you can get them. Be very gentle if you administer them by mouth - it will be very easy to break her soft jaws further. It will be a very long recovery for her. I wish you two all the best.

Did the vet give you any liquid calcium? An injection of calcium might help start the healing process for her jaw.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Update: Today we visited the vet, as we suspetced the infection hade going on for a long time, and now resulted in these serious problems with the mouth/jaw.
I had absolute no chance to save here now, even if i had going directly to vet on monday, like some people here said..
The infection was probably in her body when I got here for about 9 months ago.. (I think she is wc, most of these species are wc in Europe, not many breeders here)
The vet gav me antibiotics to give here for 6 weeks, every day, just to slow the infection down, because it's impossible to stop it.
The only thing that worry me is the stress I will cause here when im giving antibiotics in her mouth every day.

I have to ask, why are you treating her? She has no hope and is suffering. Do you think a bone infection is painless? If you don't feel you wish to spend the money to euthanize her, PM me.

 

[carol5208]

I have to ask, why are you treating her? She has no hope and is suffering. Do you think a bone infection is painless? If you don't feel you wish to spend the money to euthanize her, PM me.

Agreed. If there is no hope, then why put her through all the more pain and stress for nothing? Please humanely put her out of her misery.

 

[anders890]

Im only following the advice I've got from vet, she said that the chameleon was in good condition (except for the infection), and she is eating regulary.. and we should give her a chance for 6 weeks, and take a decision later and see how the infection and her health develop.
Ofcourse I can take a easy and fast decision to put her for sleep for good, but I will first lissen to what the vet clinic told me, and give her some more time right now!
Belive me, I have no intention to have her stay in life and a lot of pain just for my own pleasure and personal reason..
To minimize stress from the antibiotics I will have to give her every day I will try to put it on the dubias, when I feed her with forceps.
Maybe the vet thinks It's possible to stop/break the infection, even if it have come this far and is very bad..
I guess it's always hard to make this kind of decisions, when you have to decide if they are going to try to save the animal or put it to sleep..

 

[jajeanpierre]

Im only following the advice I've got from vet, she said that the chameleon was in good condition (except for the infection), and she is eating regulary.. and we should give her a chance for 6 weeks, and take a decision later and see how the infection and her health develop.
Ofcourse I can take a easy and fast decision to put her for sleep for good, but I will first lissen to what the vet clinic told me, and give her some time right now!
Belive me, I have no intention to have her stay in life and a lot of pain just for my own pleasure and personal reason..
To minimize stress from the antibiotics I will have to give her every day I will try to put it on the dubias, when I feed her with forceps.

Your vet's words from your post after visiting the vet:

"I had absolute no chance to save here now," ....
"The vet gave me antibiotics to give her for 6 weeks, every day, just to slow the infection down, because it's impossible to stop it."

Reread what your vet told you.

The animal has a bone infection that is incurable. The vet gave you a treatment that will slow down the progression of this bone infection, but will not stop it.

Why are you treating her?

This condition is painful. You have no hope of saving this animal. Why continue?

The "easy" decision is to not make a decision (to euthanize). I've faced that a few times in my life when I continued on longer than I should have when in my heart, I knew I should end their suffering. Doing nothing (except treating with medication) is by far an easier decision to make than the decision to euthanize a young animal even when you know it is doomed.

The decision becomes complicated because the caretaker (or veterinarian) becomes invested in the patient NOT dying. If the animal didn't need to be euthanized yesterday, what changed to make it necessary today. The animal slowly declines and the decline is so gradual you just accept it because it isn't dramatic. You justify your decision to treat a doomed animal because although her jaw rotted and fell out, she still eats.

You have to step back and look at the big picture. This animal has an infection so serious that her jaw rotted and fell out. That means the infection has destroyed all the ligaments, muscles and tissues holding the jaw in place. A chameleon has a VERY powerful jaw. That's a massive infection and is NOT without a lot of pain. Bone infections are particularly difficult to treat because of the poor circulation and the difficulty getting antibiotics to the site of the infection. They spread. And they are painful.

Did you decide to try to keep her alive because she is gravid and you are trying to salvage the clutch?

 

[anders890]

Your vet's words from your post after visiting the vet:

"I had absolute no chance to save here now," ....
"The vet gave me antibiotics to give her for 6 weeks, every day, just to slow the infection down, because it's impossible to stop it."

Reread what your vet told you.

The animal has a bone infection that is incurable. The vet gave you a treatment that will slow down the progression of this bone infection, but will not stop it.

Why are you treating her?

This condition is painful. You have no hope of saving this animal. Why continue?

The "easy" decision is to not make a decision (to euthanize). I've faced that a few times in my life when I continued on longer than I should have when in my heart, I knew I should end their suffering. Doing nothing (except treating with medication) is by far an easier decision to make than the decision to euthanize a young animal even when you know it is doomed.

The decision becomes complicated because the caretaker (or veterinarian) becomes invested in the patient NOT dying. If the animal didn't need to be euthanized yesterday, what changed to make it necessary today. The animal slowly declines and the decline is so gradual you just accept it because it isn't dramatic. You justify your decision to treat a doomed animal because although her jaw rotted and fell out, she still eats.

You have to step back and look at the big picture. This animal has an infection so serious that her jaw rotted and fell out. That means the infection has destroyed all the ligaments, muscles and tissues holding the jaw in place. A chameleon has a VERY powerful jaw. That's a massive infection and is NOT without a lot of pain. Bone infections are particularly difficult to treat because of the poor circulation and the difficulty getting antibiotics to the site of the infection. They spread. And they are painful.

Did you decide to try to keep her alive because she is gravid and you are trying to salvage the clutch?

What clutch, gravid? What are you talking about, please read what I wrote above again.. Maybe I was not clear enough when I wrote my previous post?

Yes ofcourse it's a massive infection, yes it's to late to save the part of the under jawbone that is rotten.
I am only following the recomendation of what I got yesterday.

No, "Im not justifying my decision to keep her alive only because she's eating".
I wrote earlier that I have absolute no problem with putting her to sleep if she is untreatable and in big pain, like I'said before in my post: I have no personal joy or satisfaction of keeping a sick animal alive.
I am right now only following the advice and recomendation that the vet gave me, nothing else.

If it is like you are describing it, totaly impossible to save her and no way for her to make it, I will for sure let her fall asleep.
I think its strange that they gave me this antibiotics to treat her with, instead of euthanize her immediately, It dosen't seem very logical to me.
But sometimes when you go to the doctor or the vet, It can be a little bit confusing of what they exactly mean and say.

 

[Lathis]

What clutch, gravid? What are you talking about, please read what I wrote above again.. Maybe I was not clear enough when I wrote my previous post?

Yes ofcourse it's a massive infection, yes it's to late to save the part of the under jawbone that is rotten.
I am only following the recomendation of what I got yesterday.

No, "Im not justifying my decision to keep her alive only because she's eating".
I wrote earlier that I have absolute no problem with putting her to sleep if she is untreatable and in big pain, like I'said before in my post: I have no personal joy or satisfaction of keeping a sick animal alive.
I am right now only following the advice and recomendation that the vet gave me, nothing else.

If it is like you are describing it, totaly impossible to save her and no way for her to make it, I will for sure let her fall asleep.
I think its strange that they gave me this antibiotics to treat her with, instead of euthanize her immediately, It dosen't seem very logical to me.
But sometimes when you go to the doctor or the vet, It can be a little bit confusing of what they exactly mean and say.

If she is active, eating, stays relatively healthy, and responds well to the antibiotics, I don't have a moral problem with treating her and seeing if she can recover enough to survive. It would be different to me if she were lethargic, laying down, not eating or drinking, and solid black. Obviously she hasn't given up yet, so maybe (and that's a big maybe) she has a chance. She will always be a special needs animal - you will always have to watch carefully for problems with her jaw and be careful with her food, but she might be able to make it. If during treatment, she continues to worsen, then I would advocate euthanizing her.

Only you can make the decision, anders. Don't be bullied one way or the other - work with the vet, continue her treatments, do a lot of research, keep a very close eye on her, and if she does not improve, her behaviour changes, or you feel she is suffering, don't be ashamed to make a hard decision to put her to sleep.

I wish you the best of luck. Both of you.

 

[anders890]

If she is active, eating, stays relatively healthy, and responds well to the antibiotics, I don't have a moral problem with treating her and seeing if she can recover enough to survive. It would be different to me if she were lethargic, laying down, not eating or drinking, and solid black. Obviously she hasn't given up yet, so maybe (and that's a big maybe) she has a chance. She will always be a special needs animal - you will always have to watch carefully for problems with her jaw and be careful with her food, but she might be able to make it. If during treatment, she continues to worsen, then I would advocate euthanizing her.

Only you can make the decision, anders. Don't be bullied one way or the other - work with the vet, continue her treatments, do a lot of research, keep a very close eye on her, and if she does not improve, her behaviour changes, or you feel she is suffering, don't be ashamed to make a hard decision to put her to sleep.

I wish you the best of luck. Both of you.

Thanks! will update how it goes ..