Possible abscess?? Mouth infection?

[Elgato]

Hey guys I just noticed a red bump on the corner on my Jacksons mouth and also a little bit of swelling on his left cheek. I've been reading other threads and it looks like it can be caused by some accident with the feeders.

I noticed it about two days ago and its getting bigger He's been in great health since I got him 8 months ago till this now. Still eating and drinking fine as well. I'm gonna try to get him to a vet tomorrow being that I'm gonna be starting a new job on monday that will limit my free time. Just in case I am not able to schedule an appt tomorrow is there anything that I can put on the bump to help him through the weekend? I read that someone used neosporin.

I'll try to post some pics up tomorrow as well

Thanks guys

 

[benga007]

There's some good info. in the replies to my original posting on 3/13 about an infection in my male jackson's. Same place, corner of mouth, started small & got bigger, never interfered w/his eating or drinking. The person I got him from mentioned it could have been from a feeder. But my vet's thinking it's a gland infection and from the responses to my posting that sounds like what it is.

I thought about neosporin. Instead the first vet I took him to gave me EnteDerm Ointment. It helped the swelling a bit but did not solve the problem. Please post what your vet has to say and also if he puts your cham on antibiotics, if you have any problem w/him losing his appetite etc., like mine.

Good luck.

 

[kinyonga]

There is a gland in the corner of the mouth and its likely infected. It that's what it is you will need to take it to a vet to have it cleaned out and a culture and sensitivity test done to determine which antibiotic to put the chameleon on.

 

[Elgato]

I'm gonna give the vet a call tomorrow and see if a can get a appt. I'll let y'all know the results.

 

[Elgato]

Here's a picture i couldn't get the best one but you can see something in the corner of his mouth

 

[kinyonga]

Looks like an infected gland. Jackson's are prone to that for some reason.

 

[Elgato]

Just got back from the vet and she told me that it looks like a puncture that got infected. The corner of the mouth was red and irritated which lead her to think that it was a injury to the mouth. They were able to remove it and got out two pellets of discharge. They set me up with some antibiotics and a cleaning solution for his mouth.

He seems to be doing fine as of now. I'm gonna take him back in ten days for a checkup. They did offer a culture test if he does not get better with the antibiotics that they gave me, but we'll see till then.

The only difference that i have been able to notice is that i used to take off the hopper legs off of the crickets. Now since he is bigger I just let him hunt the crickets in his cage. So I'm thinking maybe a cricket didn't go in right and stabbed his mouth???

I'll post updates as soon as i get some.

Kinyonga, what do you know about those glands that get infected? Are they pretty serious?

 

[xanthoman]

i agree, now that its reached this stage a vet would probably be prudent. but just for future reference, i dont know how they deal with it in the wild, but, its a fairly common issue among captive xanths. xanths have a habit of accumulating squished feeder mush at the back hinge of their jaw. left unattended it can turn into a scab or abcess, imo, could encourage stomatitus. ive noticed it seems to more common when larger feeders are used ie ones that dont go completely in the mouth, as they squish them while hanging 1/2 way out of their mouth it generates more paste than using smaller feeders that go all the way in the mouth.

i like to clean the back corner of the jaw about 1x a month with a little piece of twirled damp cloth, once you get the problem resolved that might help discourage it in the future. if you scrub it aggresssively (within reason) it might even break open, which imo, isnt necessarily a bad thing.

im not saying you shouldnt see a vet, considering its this far along and you have never dealt with it before probably a good idea.
that being said i have encountered this problem many times and it has usually cleared up on its own by just a little cleaning, and a tiny speck of neosporin. jmo, but i wouldnt use a syringe because they can aspirate (inhale) liquid easily . jmo

 

[xanthoman]

Just got back from the vet and she told me that it looks like a puncture that got infected. The corner of the mouth was red and irritated which lead her to think that it was a injury to the mouth. They were able to remove it and got out two pellets of discharge. They set me up with some antibiotics and a cleaning solution for his mouth.

He seems to be doing fine as of now. I'm gonna take him back in ten days for a checkup. They did offer a culture test if he does not get better with the antibiotics that they gave me, but we'll see till then.

The only difference that i have been able to notice is that i used to take off the hopper legs off of the crickets. Now since he is bigger I just let him hunt the crickets in his cage. So I'm thinking maybe a cricket didn't go in right and stabbed his mouth???

I'll post updates as soon as i get some.

Kinyonga, what do you know about those glands that get infected? Are they pretty serious?

thats part of they problem with cricks, the spines on their legs are fairly sharp and the older the cricks are, the bigger and harder they get. imo you would help avoid the problem by feeding less cricks, and smaller feeders in general, imo i would keep his cricks/dubia to under 5/8" or however small you have to go to keep them from hanging 1/2 way out of his mouth when feeding.

edit; also imo, looking a little puffy in the joints/limbs, what do you gutload with and if you feed dubia did you feed your dubia the crumbly brown food that often comes with them? how much calcium do you offer? jmo when you go back to your vet, it might be a good idea to ask your vet to evaluate him for the onset of gout. jmo

not trying to cause a panic, its kind of hard to tell borderline cases by photo, so just a thought, couldnt hurt to ask. jmo.

http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/01/health-section-f-gout_28.html

 

[SmellyHiker]

graceful had abscess...

Our graceful just got diagnosed with an abscess and they scraped and drained it. I was given some antibiotics to give orally and a can of soft cat food they said to mix 50:50 with pedialyte (unflavored). No mouth cleaner though. He stopped eating and drinking 2 days ago. Ours has some dark coloration around the lips (we began to fear mouth rot). There was also some puffiness around the bottom jaw not far from the lips. The vet also warned that it can take awhile for chameleons to bounce back. I am grateful for these forums because we learned so much from y'all.

Hubby wants to do the roaches and call them "beetles". I know it might be for the best... but I just can't. Too nasty.

Anyone have advice with force-feeding?

 

[kinyonga]

Elgato said..."Kinyonga, what do you know about those glands that get infected? Are they pretty serious? "...they can be hard to clear up since the bacteria usually involved is pseudomonas.

SmellyHiker...please be aware that cat food has prEformed vitamin A in it and it can build up in the system of a chameleon. Force feeding should be a last resort. If you drip water on the end of its nose at the rate of a drip or two a second it should start to drink. Ease the food into its mouth while the mouth is opening and closing to drink....but be careful not to put much in at a time. YOu don't want it to aspirate the food.

 

[Elgato]

thats part of they problem with cricks, the spines on their legs are fairly sharp and the older the cricks are, the bigger and harder they get. imo you would help avoid the problem by feeding less cricks, and smaller feeders in general, imo i would keep his cricks/dubia to under 5/8" or however small you have to go to keep them from hanging 1/2 way out of his mouth when feeding.

edit; also imo, looking a little puffy in the joints/limbs, what do you gutload with and if you feed dubia did you feed your dubia the crumbly brown food that often comes with them? how much calcium do you offer? jmo when you go back to your vet, it might be a good idea to ask your vet to evaluate him for the onset of gout. jmo

not trying to cause a panic, its kind of hard to tell borderline cases by photo, so just a thought, couldnt hurt to ask. jmo.

http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/01/health-section-f-gout_28.html

I went to the vet yesterday and she said other than what he came in for he was looking good. I use fresh fruit (apples, grapes, romaine lettuce) and cricket crack for dry gutload. He seems fine he was eating today and drinking doing his usual thing. Does he really look that swolen? I intentional left out too much pretein to prevent gout.

 

[xanthoman]

sorry wasnt trying to cause a panic, but the point is these types of issues, are best noticed and dealt with at the very earliest possible hint of trouble, because like most cham issues, once they are obvious they are usually pretty serious.

like i said it can be hard to determine early or borderline issues via photo, because photos dont always give an accurate representation, so since you were going to the vet anyway, just thought i would mention it , better safe than sorry.

dont panic, but just wondering, do you feed wax worms? the reason i ask is because puffyness or wrinkled joints can also be an indicator of too much fat in the diet. waxworms are higher in fat than protein which generally speaking is not good. waxworms can be as high as 24% fat, thats more fat than any commonly available feeder, which imo, in itself is unacceptable, thats not even counting the fact that they have 32x (not 3.2 but 32) too much phosphorus. so if you dont feed waxworms probably not an issue, but if you do, i would reconsider.

also, dont panic, but imo, he looks awfully full round and tight through the belly. that could be a sign of many things including over eating , even parasites. just wondering, how much do you feed this animal jmo, just for the record, its not good too feed them all they will eat for a # of reasons. imo, i would recommend no more than 5-6 med feeders a day for this animal and no more than 4or5 food days a week.

periods of non food are good, it gives them a chance to digest unprocessed food and a chance to cleanse a few undesirables such as phospohrus. they also hydrate better when their gut isnt full of food. overfeeding can cause a # of issues, including impaction, especially if its an imbalanced diet like mostly cricks. a healthy xanth can easily go for 2 + weeks without food, so going with out food for aday or even a weekend now and then , i would view as more of a good thing than bad

again, dont panic, just trying to give you a heads up before you have to worry about trying to correct those kinds of issues. jmo

 

[xanthoman]

ok, i'll admit i read the thread sort of quickly, didnt really notice any body using cat food or force feeding but imo, if there is some one doing either, please stop.
a healthy cham can go for weeks without food. if theres a cham dying of malnutrition, imo, lack of food is not the root cause. . imo, force feeding of a cham should only be done with the proper instruments as a life or death issue of last resort imo in the majority of cases, the stress that force feeding causes, creates more of a detriment to the animal than any nutritional benefit it gains from it .

imo if someones animal really needs to be force fed they should have a vet instruct them on how to do it. i would imagine if the vet really thought it was necessary, they would give somebody the proper instrument to do it with.

if somebody insists on force feeding their animal it should be done by a small catheter or rubber feeding nipple. they can be found here.
http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Reptilestore.html

a word of caution, like kinyonga says, chams aspirate stuff very easily, their airway is not in throat so to speak, well sure it goes through their throat, but its important to keep in mind its a hole under the tongue, so it is important that any food or liquid enter the cham downstream of the airway, otherwise there is a very real risk of aspiration if the chams mouth fills up with food it is trying to reject, thats why you use a nozzle, so the food doesnt enter the cham till its well in the throat. jmo

 

[xanthoman]

Hubby wants to do the roaches and call them "beetles". I know it might be for the best... but I just can't. Too nasty.

Anyone have advice with force-feeding?

the vet probably gave the cat food as a matter of convenience. was this a reptile vet? look, if you really have to force feed, imo i would order a syringe and a feeding nipple immediately, and just hold off on feeding till it gets here. imo if its at the stage of dying because of going without food for 4 or five days, then imo its chances are minimal anyway. if you really need to force feed i would x the cat food and just make up a slurry of whatever feeders you got (not including waxworms) run it through a tea strainer and the suck it ito the syringe. nutritionally speaking, 5 or 6 drops 1x a week (to minimize stress) is all it needs nutritionally to stay going till other issues can be resolved. i dont know the history of how this animal got to the point needing to be force fed, but i dont think i would be going out on a limb too far if i said, it likely includes overfeeding/imbalanced diet(like one based on cricks instead of dubia)/oversupplementation.

as far as dubia , cricks arent really that great of feeder, i usually recommend they be reserved mostly for supp purposes. nutritionally speaking, dubia are a better balanced staple. no feeder should make up more than 40% of the diet. thats an even harder # to attain if you use cricks as a staple. then its harder to come up with enough variety since dubia arent commonly available at petstores. cricks arent as nutritionally suitable so if you wanted to use cricks as a staple then nutritionally speaking, that # would be even lower, imo cricks shouldnt make up more than a third of the diet. fight it if you will, but, lets face it, realistically, if you want to be a successful long term cham keeper, (which includes offering a properly balanced diet), then the formula for that is likely to include a dubia colony.

dubia ;

wont cost you cash every month
they dont bite
they dont chirp at night
they dont need constant attention
they dont die as easy, they are not as smelly
they dont often jump so to speak, they wont get loose and if they do they are slow, easy to find and wont breed in your house plus its easy to have a surplus and sell off the extras.

just my 2c worth.

 

[Elgato]

sorry wasnt trying to cause a panic, but the point is these types of issues, are best noticed and dealt with at the very earliest possible hint of trouble, because like most cham issues, once they are obvious they are usually pretty serious.

like i said it can be hard to determine early or borderline issues via photo, because photos dont always give an accurate representation, so since you were going to the vet anyway, just thought i would mention it , better safe than sorry.

dont panic, but just wondering, do you feed wax worms? the reason i ask is because puffyness or wrinkled joints can also be an indicator of too much fat in the diet. waxworms are higher in fat than protein which generally speaking is not good. waxworms can be as high as 24% fat, thats more fat than any commonly available feeder, which imo, in itself is unacceptable, thats not even counting the fact that they have 32x (not 3.2 but 32) too much phosphorus. so if you dont feed waxworms probably not an issue, but if you do, i would reconsider.

also, dont panic, but imo, he looks awfully full round and tight through the belly. that could be a sign of many things including over eating , even parasites. just wondering, how much do you feed this animal jmo, just for the record, its not good too feed them all they will eat for a # of reasons. imo, i would recommend no more than 5-6 med feeders a day for this animal and no more than 4or5 food days a week.

periods of non food are good, it gives them a chance to digest unprocessed food and a chance to cleanse a few undesirables such as phospohrus. they also hydrate better when their gut isnt full of food. overfeeding can cause a # of issues, including impaction, especially if its an imbalanced diet like mostly cricks. a healthy xanth can easily go for 2 + weeks without food, so going with out food for aday or even a weekend now and then , i would view as more of a good thing than bad

again, dont panic, just trying to give you a heads up before you have to worry about trying to correct those kinds of issues. jmo

Well I try to feed him every other day. Its been a while since I gave him waxworms and it wasn't more than 6 through a seven month period. Good thing you meantioned th cutting back on food I was considering this but wasn't sure that it was safe to go a week without food.

Question: I've been giving him his antibiotics and cleaning his injury and since then he has not been eating as much and is dark in color. I'm assuming the color is stress? And with him being in the condition he is now, should I worry about him not eating? And can I just keep him hydrated?

 

[Miss Lily]

Your Xanth is gorgeous! I can't wait till mine is that size (he's almost 7 months and still really small)! The gland that was talked about is the Temporal Gland. I believe Monty had a minor issue with his when he was about 10 weeks old. Looking back, I think he might have got a fruit fly wing caught in the corner of his mouth and that caused the problem.

 

[benga007]

That's exactly how my Xanth reacted when my vet had me give him baytril for the same problem. Totally stopped eating but still drank well; was listless and coloration was dark. Vet said that will sometimes happen. Not knowing that they can get by for a couple of weeks w/out eating, I took him off the anitbiotics for a while, forced fed him a small cricket and he was back to normal. I'm now just cleaning out the infected area and putting neosporin on it to see if that will clear it up. How long does it usually take for the swelling to go down and heal?

 

[Elgato]

Just an update: I'm taking him to the vet for a checkup today. As far as what I did to treat his infection, I gave him his antibiotics for two days consecutively after seeing the vet. After seeing how he got (dark in color, not eating) I took him off his meds. I cleaned his injury for about five days. After that the swelling began to go down and his injury was less noticeable everyday after. I'll look up the name of the antibiotic that I gave him as well as the cleaning solution if anyone would like to have it for reference.