Please, I still need help

[lmcoop1]

Below is what I have previously posted. I still have so many questions: Should I continue is normal routine? Does he need additional sleep? Should I try to keep him awake during the day? Should I force him to eat? Do I need to keep him warm at night because he is sick? Should I continue the antibiotic shots and fluid injections? Was my vet (yes she is an exotic pet vet) wrong? There is not a pet shop near me with liquid calcium, Is there a way to make my own with human supplements at the store? Waiting for an order to come in will be too late I think.

Sitting idle while he is sick is killing me. My worst question is this: Is he in pain and should I have him euthanized?

• Your Chameleon - veiled chameleon, 10 months old, adopted 4 months ago
• Handling - never
• Feeding - eats 15 circlets a day, occasional mealworms and silkworms, gutloading crickets with fruits and veggies.
• Supplements - not sure what brand, calcium with d3 3 times a month. I did not know he was supposed to receive plain calcium everyday, i have bought some and begin today.
• Watering - i mist 3 times a day for about a minute. I do not usually see him drink, he is shy
• Fecal Description - typically, it is brown with mostly white droppings (sometimes a little yellow).
• History - severe MBD, previous broken front limb, healed now

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - screen cage. 2ft ish tall and one foot wide. Will up the size when he is larger
• Lighting - 12 hours on and off. Uvb and heating lamp.
• Temperature - cage floor is around 70 degrees. Basking is normally 83ish. I have two thermometers
• Humidity - 49-60% depending on weather. I keep the window open for him a lot
• Plants - live approved plant, cannot remember the name.
• Placement - he has his own room and cage is next to window. He gets natural sunlight and fresh air. He is on a desk two feet from floor.
• Location - south Texas near mexico.

I rescued a veiled with severe MBD from my young nephew. After I got his habitat almost perfect (I still have a coiled UVB and will be switching) he was doing so well. Two days ago a replaced his heating lamp bulb with the wrong bulb. The heat was over 105 degrees. By the time I noticed, a few hours later when it was time for misting again, he developed a light burn on his back. I changed the bulb but now he is not moving at all. He is sleeping during the day and will not grip anything. He has not eaten in two days. I have been soaking him in a warm 1/2 water 1/2 pedialyte bath 2-3 times a day.
I write this as we sit in the vet's office 2 hours from home. I'm not sure how much the vet knows, I know a lot of vets are not super familiar with veileds. They are giving him an antibiotic ( not sure what kind yet) and sending me home with 6 doses for him. Any input would be appreciated. He has not had blood drawn or any fluids taken.

The vet did not give me much information. The antibiotic is called ceftazidime or tazicef. She was worried he had developed an infection from the burn and it had spread to his blood stream? She also gave him a vitamin b shot to help with his appetite. His symptoms are no appetite, sleeping all day, and immobility. Does this sound like an infection? I am so worried.

 

[leedragon]

a shote in the dark but try to give him a dropp or 2 of vitamin a, he most likely is having a lack on nutrient in general. what do you gutload with?

 

[jajeanpierre]

I'm so sorry he is sick. I think any vet would find it hard to diagnose what is wrong.

Follow your vet's advice. Any vet has more training and knowledge than a lay person on a chameleon forum who has experience with a limited number of chameleons. Your vet has seen the animal, we have not.

If it was a sudden decline at the same time as you had the temperature spike, it might be something related to overheating or a burn. Since she gave him a Vitamin B shot, did she also give him subcutaneous fluids at the same time?

All kinds of things can be happening around a thermal burn. There is a breakdown of the circulatory system, so fluid leaks out and they can die from that. The break down of dead tissues is hard on the kidneys, so they can die from that. Infection is a risk, too. All kinds of things happen when there is a bad burn and you might not know how bad the burn is because is it deeper under the skin. You don't know at this point what is going on.

I would not be so quick to end his suffering. You really don't know if he is suffering all that much other than he is sick. Follow your vet's advice and try to reduce his stress. I wouldn't force feed him. My main concern would be fluids and reducing stress so he can put all his energy towards healing. Let him shut down during the day. Be extra careful to keep him stress free. Keep his humidity very high and keep his temps on the higher side of normal, but within the normal range for his species. You can up the humidity by draping plastic around the cage. Leave a vent at the bottom of one side so it pulls in cool air at the bottom and vents it out the top like a chimney. If you enclose the cage, be extra careful the temps don't get too high.

The only liquid calcium you want is from the vet, not a pet store.

Those are my thoughts, but I am not a vet or medical professional. Good luck. Keep us posted.

 

[savage13]

I'm so sorry he is sick. I think any vet would find it hard to diagnose what is wrong.

Follow your vet's advice. Any vet has more training and knowledge than a lay person on a chameleon forum who has experience with a limited number of chameleons. Your vet has seen the animal, we have not.

If it was a sudden decline at the same time as you had the temperature spike, it might be something related to overheating or a burn. Since she gave him a Vitamin B shot, did she also give him subcutaneous fluids at the same time?

All kinds of things can be happening around a thermal burn. There is a breakdown of the circulatory system, so fluid leaks out and they can die from that. The break down of dead tissues is hard on the kidneys, so they can die from that. Infection is a risk, too. All kinds of things happen when there is a bad burn and you might not know how bad the burn is because is it deeper under the skin. You don't know at this point what is going on.

I would not be so quick to end his suffering. You really don't know if he is suffering all that much other than he is sick. Follow your vet's advice and try to reduce his stress. I wouldn't force feed him. My main concern would be fluids and reducing stress so he can put all his energy towards healing. Let him shut down during the day. Be extra careful to keep him stress free. Keep his humidity very high and keep his temps on the higher side of normal, but within the normal range for his species. You can up the humidity by draping plastic around the cage. Leave a vent at the bottom of one side so it pulls in cool air at the bottom and vents it out the top like a chimney. If you enclose the cage, be extra careful the temps don't get too high.

The only liquid calcium you want is from the vet, not a pet store.

Those are my thoughts, but I am not a vet or medical professional. Good luck. Keep us posted.

+1 no words coming true then this stick with the professional..

 

[lmcoop1]

a shote in the dark but try to give him a dropp or 2 of vitamin a, he most likely is having a lack on nutrient in general. what do you gutload with?

Fruits and veggies. Mostly strawberries, bananas, spinach, collards. Whatever I cab find down here really.

 

[lmcoop1]

Th vet taught me how to give subcutaneous fluids and I have done it twice. The last post I made they told me not to give injections or the antibiotics, instead use showers and cream. Lots of opinions, very confusing. One user said they cannot absorb fluids unless they drink it.

It is humid in Texas today, so his humidity is staying at 70% so far and he cannot grip, so where he laying on a cloth in the cage, it is 82 degrees.

I certainly do not want to euthanize him, at all. He just looks so pitiful.

I would like to out him in the shower for a while, but I'm afraid to scare him. I would also like to take him outside, but I'm afraid to scare him. Should I just keep him in his cage for the most part?

Thank you so so very much for the advice

 

[lmcoop1]

He died a few minutes ago.

 

[Theveiled]

He died a few minutes ago.

I am so sorry for your loss.

 

[lmcoop1]

I have a brand new shipment of horned worms, waxworks, butterworms, and mealworms. Is anyone interested in me shipping them to you? I don't want them to go to waste and they cannot survive in the Texas climate like crickets can.

Devastated. I don't know what to do about all of my cages and lights. I will not own another veiled and cannot stand to sell the products on eBay. I do not want an inexperienced kid buying a chameleon they cannot care for, like my nephew did. I have a retaively large screen cage, good for a juvenile veiled and a small screen I used for travel when I did not keep him enclosed and asleep.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I'm so sorry.

I don't know if you want to because it costs more money, but you might want to have a necropsy done. I have had a few necropsysies done. Sometimes I just want to know--was it me or my husbandry that made them die. Sometimes the results of the necropsies were not at all what I or the vet expected. One little wild caught import crashed in my hand--he was struggling like mad and then went limp. I rushed him to the vet but he died. I was sure I had killed him from stress. The necropsy showed his lungs completely trashed by three very large lung worms. I helped the vet do the necropsy just a few minutes after he died. We were both shocked by what we found. If I hadn't gotten the necropsy, I would have been 100% positive my handling led to his death. The vet did not know why he suffered respiratory failure at that moment--maybe it was the struggling that did it--but she said he never would have survived the condition of his lungs. It wasn't a question of if he would die but when. I am very glad I spent the $90 for the necropsy. If you are thinking of doing a necropsy, just wrap him up in plastic and put him in the fridge--not the freezer. He can stay there for a few days until you decide, but with the weekend coming up, you probably want to decide by Friday.

You don't really know why he died and I am sure you are beating yourself up right now. Don't. It might very well have been related to his problems from before you got him.

Again, I'm so sorry.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I have a brand new shipment of horned worms, waxworks, butterworms, and mealworms. Is anyone interested in me shipping them to you? I don't want them to go to waste and they cannot survive in the Texas climate like crickets can.

Devastated. I don't know what to do about all of my cages and lights. I will not own another veiled and cannot stand to sell the products on eBay. I do not want an inexperienced kid buying a chameleon they cannot care for, like my nephew did. I have a retaively large screen cage, good for a juvenile veiled and a small screen I used for travel when I did not keep him enclosed and asleep.

Where are you located in Texas? I'm in San Antonio and I know someone in Dallas.

Don't decide about anything for a bit. Maybe you need to find a home for the bugs, but the rest can wait.

 

[lmcoop1]

I am in Kingsville. It is about 2 1/2 hours south of San Antonio and 6 hours from Dallas. I would certainly love it if these worms were put to good use. They just arrived (I have a shipment sent every month), so they would definitely survive the trip just fine.

I will wait on the rest of the items and I have not decided on the necropsy yet. It would help if I knew whether it was my fault or not. Thank you for your kind words, he was a wonderful friend.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I am in Kingsville. It is about 2 1/2 hours south of San Antonio and 6 hours from Dallas. I would certainly love it if these worms were put to good use. They just arrived (I have a shipment sent every month), so they would definitely survive the trip just fine.

I will wait on the rest of the items and I have not decided on the necropsy yet. It would help if I knew whether it was my fault or not. Thank you for your kind words, he was a wonderful friend.

I know you are beating yourself up. I was very comforted in knowing one way or the other.

Is there a local reptile club? How about a pet store?

Janet

 

[lmcoop1]

There is not a reptile club or a good pet store. The only post store we have is only for mammals and they do not even carry healthy dog food :/