please help
- Thread starter aschultz
- Start date
She seems to be getting worse instead of better. The swelling has spread down into her neck area this morning. I got some of the fluid out of her eye, but it was filled back up in again in less then an hour. I cant figure out where all of this fluid is coming from. I have done all I can do financially for her, I've got maybe $30 left in the bank after the trip to the vet yesterday.
The vet said that they didnt really expect her to make it since she wasnt in great health anyway from being kept so badly. I tried to do better, but I dont know what I am doing either, and I dont think I was able to do enough for her fast enough to save her.
I am just going to keep doing what I can and hope for a miracle I guess.
The vet said that they didnt really expect her to make it since she wasnt in great health anyway from being kept so badly. I tried to do better, but I dont know what I am doing either, and I dont think I was able to do enough for her fast enough to save her.
I am just going to keep doing what I can and hope for a miracle I guess.
You did all you could do, and what is wrong with that? You know she would have died where she was, and at least she had a chance with you. Please don't beat yourself up over it. There have been more than one of us in the same situation. I bought a sick Flapneck from a petstore, and she lasted 28 days. I followed advice from here, took her to the vet, but in the end she was too sick to make it. All we can do is our best. Make her comfortable, and hope for that miracle. At least her last days will be with someone who cares.
PrettyInInk87
New Member
Yes, do not feel bad. I also know exactly how you feel. I took in a very sick Cham about 2 weeks ago and between myself and another forum member we tried to save him but, he was too far gone. Just know that you did what you could... Hope she does pull through. All you can do now is provide her with lots of love and attention.
I feel for you and I will keep my fingers crossed.
I feel for you and I will keep my fingers crossed.Was she tested for parasites? Sometimes a parasite can block a gland in the eye.....just a possibility since you said it was all fluid and not thick puss.
Lisa...I know you were just asking...but I didn't intend that line about the veileds and panthers to be there either. I should have removed it when I cut and pasted it into this thread.
Lisa...I know you were just asking...but I didn't intend that line about the veileds and panthers to be there either. I should have removed it when I cut and pasted it into this thread.
AB EskimoC
New Member
Youre doing all you can. Prayers and crossed fingers for your girl. : / If she makes it 'till your next sum of money comes through, please get a fecal test done. And in the mean time, just do what you're doing. You're being an excellent Mama.
She didnt look worse as far as swelling or yellow pigment this morning, but she did look dehydrated and lethargic. I gave her a 15-20 minute warm shower, gave her her meds and her vet food and hand fed her a cricket because she is starting to look very thin. I finally figured out a way to fix her a dripper system that works but she wasnt drinking, so I moved her cage to the bathroom, closed the door and ran the shower on hot every hour until the bathroom was so humid the kids complained they couldnt go in to actually use the bathroom, misting every hour. Tonight she still looks dehydrated, ugh! She is very lethargic and sleeps most of the time. Swelling hasnt spread but the yellow pigmentation spread down her neck a little more. She only has two more days of her prescriptions left.
This is the saddest thing ever!
This is the saddest thing ever!
The swelling and the yellow pigment have stopped spreading. She is still dehydrated but she is drinking from her dripper and I think she has seemed a little bit mroe active today. I have gone in to check on her a few times and found her awake and in a different place than she was before. Her grip is still very strong and she is starting to not like taking her medicine instead of just being passive about it all. I'm really hoping thats a good sign. Just trying to get her hydrated and hoping for the best!
Oh she's eating by herself! She eats funny, she misses if she tries to eat normally I guess because she is only using one eye, but she sneaks up on the crickets and sticks just the tip of her tongue out very slowly until it sticks to the cricket and then pulls it into her mouth. I'm really hoping that means she feels a little better.
She is hanging in there still. The yellow spots are fading very very slowly and the eye is still swollen but not as much as it was when I first took her to the vet. I cant seem to get her good and hydrated, but I looked it up and I am wondering if maybe it is the Baytril? The vet said to work hard to keep her hydrated and the things I have seen online say that Baytril is hard on the kidneys so hydration may be difficult. I took her out of the bathroom since she didnt seem to be doing well in there. I have her dripper running all day and she does drink from it, plus lots of misting. The little bit of info I have been able to find on flapnecks says that they do better in moderate humidity so maybe the bathroom was actually too humid for her.
I talked my husband into letting me get the rest of her cage set-up stuff for my Christmas present so I get to go tomorrow and get her stuff.
So my shopping list is-
UV bulb (Reptisun 5.0)
Hood for UV bulb
Calcium with no D3
Multivitamin with betacarotene
thermometer and a thingy to read the humidity levels (cant remember what you call those)
Reptisafe (I didnt know I couldnt give her tap water! Why do you put them in the shower then? Wouldnt that be bad for them?)
Live plant or two
better gutload supplies
I am hoping that maybe fixing her diet and enclosure issues might help with the swelling since I have read that lots of times problems like this are acutally caused by bad diet and enclosure problems.
So new questions then...
When I get her live plant(s), I need organic potting soil mixed with sand right? With some rocks on top to keep her from eating the soil? Do I get a pot with holes in the bottom or not? Seems like no holes would lead to root rot. I think I read something about putting some styrofoam in the pot too to help soak up the excess water?
When should she be laying her eggs? She is seven months and so far no signs of getting ready to lay. When she does get ready what do I do? I know she needs extra calcium and vitamins when she is making the eggs, but what about laying them? I've read contradictory things, some things say just let them have access to the soil in the live plants pot so they can lay whenever, some say to keep a special laying place in there all the time, some say to keep a laying bucket but not to put it in the cage because they wont lay in their enclosures, some say they lay only at night others that they move them to the laying bucket during the day...I'm so confused!
Gutloading...I only have the one cam so I dont keep all that many crickets at one time (thinking about getting some of the really small ones though and letting them grow through the month so that I dont ahve to go to the pet store so much, its an hour drive each way). Do you keep all of the various things (dandelion, endive, squash, sweet potato, carrots etc) at one time? Or do you buy a few of them and then alternate with others (like buying maybe dandelion, carrots and oranges one week, and then kale, apples and squash the next?) I would think that trying to keep all of that fresh around the house all the time would lead to a lot of it going to waste. Can I freeze it, or would that deplete the nutrient value too much? Do I cook it before I give it to the feeder insects or just give it raw? Also where do you get dandelion, endive and kale? I have never seen anyplace that sells that stuff. What about the grains? I've seen you can use cereal...stuff like oatmeal or regular whole grain people cereal...what about the mulit-grain baby cereal? It comes in flakes and has barley, bran, wheat, oats etc in it, and its vitamin fortified.
enrichment- do you keep all of the different kinds of enrichment insects at once (butterworms, hornworms, meal worms, etc) or do you get one kind and feed those for enrichment and buy a different kind when the first kind runs out?
Sorry for all the questions, I just want to make sure I am doing this right. I dont think I had this many questions when I had my first baby, but the more I read the more confused I get...
I talked my husband into letting me get the rest of her cage set-up stuff for my Christmas present so I get to go tomorrow and get her stuff.
So my shopping list is-
UV bulb (Reptisun 5.0)
Hood for UV bulb
Calcium with no D3
Multivitamin with betacarotene
thermometer and a thingy to read the humidity levels (cant remember what you call those)
Reptisafe (I didnt know I couldnt give her tap water! Why do you put them in the shower then? Wouldnt that be bad for them?)
Live plant or two
better gutload supplies
I am hoping that maybe fixing her diet and enclosure issues might help with the swelling since I have read that lots of times problems like this are acutally caused by bad diet and enclosure problems.
So new questions then...
When I get her live plant(s), I need organic potting soil mixed with sand right? With some rocks on top to keep her from eating the soil? Do I get a pot with holes in the bottom or not? Seems like no holes would lead to root rot. I think I read something about putting some styrofoam in the pot too to help soak up the excess water?
When should she be laying her eggs? She is seven months and so far no signs of getting ready to lay. When she does get ready what do I do? I know she needs extra calcium and vitamins when she is making the eggs, but what about laying them? I've read contradictory things, some things say just let them have access to the soil in the live plants pot so they can lay whenever, some say to keep a special laying place in there all the time, some say to keep a laying bucket but not to put it in the cage because they wont lay in their enclosures, some say they lay only at night others that they move them to the laying bucket during the day...I'm so confused!
Gutloading...I only have the one cam so I dont keep all that many crickets at one time (thinking about getting some of the really small ones though and letting them grow through the month so that I dont ahve to go to the pet store so much, its an hour drive each way). Do you keep all of the various things (dandelion, endive, squash, sweet potato, carrots etc) at one time? Or do you buy a few of them and then alternate with others (like buying maybe dandelion, carrots and oranges one week, and then kale, apples and squash the next?) I would think that trying to keep all of that fresh around the house all the time would lead to a lot of it going to waste. Can I freeze it, or would that deplete the nutrient value too much? Do I cook it before I give it to the feeder insects or just give it raw? Also where do you get dandelion, endive and kale? I have never seen anyplace that sells that stuff. What about the grains? I've seen you can use cereal...stuff like oatmeal or regular whole grain people cereal...what about the mulit-grain baby cereal? It comes in flakes and has barley, bran, wheat, oats etc in it, and its vitamin fortified.
enrichment- do you keep all of the different kinds of enrichment insects at once (butterworms, hornworms, meal worms, etc) or do you get one kind and feed those for enrichment and buy a different kind when the first kind runs out?
Sorry for all the questions, I just want to make sure I am doing this right. I dont think I had this many questions when I had my first baby, but the more I read the more confused I get...
You said..."Baytril is hard on the kidneys so hydration may be difficult"...baytril does not make it hard to hydrate the chameleon...not giving the chameleon enough water (extra water) when its on baytril can increase the chances of kidney damage.
You said..."When should she be laying her eggs?"...some of them can lay eggs before they are 5 months old...some never lay them. It depends to some extent on how you look after the chameleon...how much you feed her and the temperature you keep her at...and maybe even whether she sees a male or not.
You said...." When she does get ready what do I do?"...since she is already old enough to lay eggs, I would recommend putting an opaque container of washed playsand in her cage so she can dig when she is ready to lay the eggs. This will help her to not become eggbound. The minimum size of the container should be 12" deep by 12" by 8". When she starts digging in this rather small container in her cage you have two choices...leave her and see if she will lay them there...or move her to a large container so she can lay them in it. What ever you do, do not let her see you watching her when she is digging or she will likely abandon the hole. Generally they do start the laying process at night. There is no definite answer to egglaying...some will lay just about anywhere and others are fussy. Some dig several test holes and then settle on one...some just dig one hole and lay the eggs there. You just have to go with the flow and watch for signs that things are not going right. One more thing, do not move them back and forth from the cage to the bucket/large container.
Gutloading...I usually put several things in at once to gutload the insects...but then I have turtles and other omnivores who need a salad every couple of days. Dandelion, endive, squash, sweet potato, carrots, zucchini, squash, sweet red pepper, kale, collards, etc. are all good to use. I always give them to them raw...but I've heard that slightly cooking the sweet potato is actually more nutritious for them.
You can freeze. I think the only vitamin that might be depleted from freezing it is the B vitamins.
You said..."where do you get dandelion, endive and kale?"...most of the greens I get at the grocery store....Metro, Longo's, the Superstore and even some Walmarts have them.
I've been told not to use oatmeal...it has a lot of phos. in it I think.
Here is some information that might be useful...
Exposure to proper UVB, appropriate temperatures, supplements, a supply of well-fed/gutloaded insects, water and an appropriate cage set-up are all important for the well-being of your chameleon.
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption. For a basking light you can use a regular incandescent household bulb in a domed hood...but I use a double fluorescent fixture that has one regular fluorescent light in and one Reptisun 5.0 UVB tube light since that puts the temperature in the right range.
Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light that I mentioned above. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.
Since many of the feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects before you feed them to the chameleon with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it.
If you dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. (Some UVB lights have been known to cause health issues, so the most often recommended one is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light.) D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it.
Dusting twice a month with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while.
Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs....so its important too. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)
Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.
Here are some good sites for you to read...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200604210...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
You said..."When should she be laying her eggs?"...some of them can lay eggs before they are 5 months old...some never lay them. It depends to some extent on how you look after the chameleon...how much you feed her and the temperature you keep her at...and maybe even whether she sees a male or not.
You said...." When she does get ready what do I do?"...since she is already old enough to lay eggs, I would recommend putting an opaque container of washed playsand in her cage so she can dig when she is ready to lay the eggs. This will help her to not become eggbound. The minimum size of the container should be 12" deep by 12" by 8". When she starts digging in this rather small container in her cage you have two choices...leave her and see if she will lay them there...or move her to a large container so she can lay them in it. What ever you do, do not let her see you watching her when she is digging or she will likely abandon the hole. Generally they do start the laying process at night. There is no definite answer to egglaying...some will lay just about anywhere and others are fussy. Some dig several test holes and then settle on one...some just dig one hole and lay the eggs there. You just have to go with the flow and watch for signs that things are not going right. One more thing, do not move them back and forth from the cage to the bucket/large container.
Gutloading...I usually put several things in at once to gutload the insects...but then I have turtles and other omnivores who need a salad every couple of days. Dandelion, endive, squash, sweet potato, carrots, zucchini, squash, sweet red pepper, kale, collards, etc. are all good to use. I always give them to them raw...but I've heard that slightly cooking the sweet potato is actually more nutritious for them.
You can freeze. I think the only vitamin that might be depleted from freezing it is the B vitamins.
You said..."where do you get dandelion, endive and kale?"...most of the greens I get at the grocery store....Metro, Longo's, the Superstore and even some Walmarts have them.
I've been told not to use oatmeal...it has a lot of phos. in it I think.
Here is some information that might be useful...
Exposure to proper UVB, appropriate temperatures, supplements, a supply of well-fed/gutloaded insects, water and an appropriate cage set-up are all important for the well-being of your chameleon.
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption. For a basking light you can use a regular incandescent household bulb in a domed hood...but I use a double fluorescent fixture that has one regular fluorescent light in and one Reptisun 5.0 UVB tube light since that puts the temperature in the right range.
Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light that I mentioned above. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.
Since many of the feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects before you feed them to the chameleon with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it.
If you dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. (Some UVB lights have been known to cause health issues, so the most often recommended one is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light.) D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it.
Dusting twice a month with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while.
Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs....so its important too. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)
Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.
Here are some good sites for you to read...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200604210...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
Sorry I dont think I said that right about the baytril, I meant that maybe the comments I saw about it being hard on the kidneys was because for some reason the baytril might cause them to need more water than usual and if you dont give extra it would be hard on the kidneys. She just seems harder to hydrate and I thought maybe it might be because of the meds.
I'll add the container and the playsand to my list of things to get for her, and check at the store for the greens. I dont have a Metro or a Longo's, but I will try Wal-mart, maybe I have missed it somewhere.
I thought I saw on here somewhere people talking about feeding superworms oatmeal, glad I asked then since I was wrong.
Thank you for the help!
I'll add the container and the playsand to my list of things to get for her, and check at the store for the greens. I dont have a Metro or a Longo's, but I will try Wal-mart, maybe I have missed it somewhere.
I thought I saw on here somewhere people talking about feeding superworms oatmeal, glad I asked then since I was wrong.
Thank you for the help!
I went to the store yesterday and got the stuff she needed, except the cacium without D3 since they didnt have any so I was going to just order some online. I got home and noticed that the yellow pigment was spreading again slightly, but I thought maybe getting her lights and stuff set up might help. It hadnt changed much when I turned her lights off last night.
When I woke up this morning and the yellow had spread about twice the size it was last night and she was on the bottom of her cage, very lethargic. I dont know if she climbed down or fell. She died before I could get the kids dressed and ready to leave for the vets office again.
When I woke up this morning and the yellow had spread about twice the size it was last night and she was on the bottom of her cage, very lethargic. I dont know if she climbed down or fell. She died before I could get the kids dressed and ready to leave for the vets office again.
Oh I'm so sorry! You did the best you could for her and at least she was probably a lot more comfortable for longer than she would have been without your help. Sorry for your loss
