Planning on getting a baby helmeted Cham. Should I get glass or hybrid?

[ZenxAero]

So I am in the process of getting a baby Helmeted chameleon and was curious on which enclosure type I should get. Currently I have a 16x16x30 reptibreeze that I have added corrugated plastic on the sides for a “hybrid”-ish enclosure. I have been researching their care sheet, and found they need 70%-100% RH for nighttime humidity. I have 2 live plants set up in the closure as a way to see if I can achieve the required humidity, but is I’m only able to get to 45-55 for both day and night. This is possibly due to me living in a desert area of Texas. I know there are people that have achieved great success with these chameleons, so maybe you guys can help me give this guy a great life.

Please note that the plant on the bottom back left of the enclosure is going to be hooked and elevated on the top back left, and I will be adding branches as well before I get him.

 

[bobcochran]

So I am in the process of getting a baby Helmeted chameleon and was curious on which enclosure type I should get. Currently I have a 16x16x30 reptibreeze that I have added corrugated plastic on the sides for a “hybrid”-ish enclosure. I have been researching their care sheet, and found they need 70%-100% RH for nighttime humidity. I have 2 live plants set up in the closure as a way to see if I can achieve the required humidity, but is I’m only able to get to 45-55 for both day and night. This is possibly due to me living in a desert area of Texas. I know there are people that have achieved great success with these chameleons, so maybe you guys can help me give this guy a great life. View attachment 292454
Please note that the plant on the bottom back left of the enclosure is going to be hooked and elevated on the top back left, and I will be adding branches as well before I get him.

I see you have a mister, try misting just before lights out at night, then put a sheet of plastic or shower curtain over the entire enclosure. Test humidity after a couple of hours. If that doesn't work you can buy a cool humidifier relatively cheap. I keep mine outdoors, so not sure exactly what will work best. Maybe an indoor keeper will chime in

 

[ZenxAero]

I see you have a mister, try misting just before lights out at night, then put a sheet of plastic or shower curtain over the entire enclosure. Test humidity after a couple of hours. If that doesn't work you can buy a cool humidifier relatively cheap. I keep mine outdoors, so not sure exactly what will work best. Maybe an indoor keeper will chime in

I currently have a reptifogger that runs run 1:30 am - 6:00 am. The mister I have scheduled for 1:30 am (2 minutes) at 6:00 am (2 min) at noon (1 min) at 3 (1 min) at 6:50 pm (2 min and this is right before lights out at 7:00) as well as at 9:30 pm for 2 minutes. Also would covering the entire closure stop air ventilation?

 

[Beman]

The analog gauges are not as accurate as the digital ones. I would start by replacing this. I like this one for temp/humidity. It hooks to an app and you can pull up all info for any time during the day or night. Just do not put it in a direct path of water or fog. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R586J37/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Your daytime is fine.. Not sure what care sheet your going off of. For night time you need 75-100% with air flow. So depending on your ambient house humidity this is where we have to get creative. Adding a cool mist humidifier in the room to up ambient levels can help. Adding more plants can help as well. Also using window film on only the door panel so it creates the chimney effect in the cage pulling from the service door up and out the top can help. I find the cooler the room the better my humidity is at night as well. I know for this species they have to have a pretty extreme temp drop at night. This would be my worry about using a glass enclosure in Texas, you would really have to dial in your year round temps and humidity in one of these to ensure it would work.
Take a look at this care sheet. https://chameleonacademy.com/trioceros-hoehnelii/

Then read through this husbandry program. Bill Strand gives in depth info https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/

 

[ZenxAero]

The analog gauges are not as accurate as the digital ones. I would start by replacing this. I like this one for temp/humidity. It hooks to an app and you can pull up all info for any time during the day or night. Just do not put it in a direct path of water or fog. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R586J37/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Your daytime is fine.. Not sure what care sheet your going off of. For night time you need 75-100% with air flow. So depending on your ambient house humidity this is where we have to get creative. Adding a cool mist humidifier in the room to up ambient levels can help. Adding more plants can help as well. Also using window film on only the door panel so it creates the chimney effect in the cage pulling from the service door up and out the top can help. I find the cooler the room the better my humidity is at night as well. I know for this species they have to have a pretty extreme temp drop at night. This would be my worry about using a glass enclosure in Texas, you would really have to dial in your year round temps and humidity in one of these to ensure it would work.
Take a look at this care sheet. https://chameleonacademy.com/trioceros-hoehnelii/

Then read through this husbandry program. Bill Strand gives in depth info https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/

That is the care sheet I have been reading from. I do have some vines as well as some extra fake plants for foliage to make the “forest edge” but I am planning on getting a pothos as well since it will add foliage throughout as well as climbing vines. I know right now the enclosure is not really suit for him, and will probably put a post when I do have most of it set up. My major concern is making sure humidity is perfect for him. I am also planning on upgrading to a dragon strand hybrid since you suggested going against a glass due to my location. I will be upgrading to the gauge you suggested and will look into a cool mister for the whole room. And I’m assuming I can get the window film at a depot?

 

[Beman]

That is the care sheet I have been reading from. I do have some vines as well as some extra fake plants for foliage to make the “forest edge” but I am planning on getting a pothos as well since it will add foliage throughout as well as climbing vines. I know right now the enclosure is not really suit for him, and will probably put a post when I do have most of it set up. My major concern is making sure humidity is perfect for him. I am also planning on upgrading to a dragon strand hybrid since you suggested going against a glass due to my location. I will be upgrading to the gauge you suggested and will look into a cool mister for the whole room. And I’m assuming I can get the window film at a depot?

Yes, the window film is duct brand and like 7 bucks at home depot. Just use it on the door panel and leave the screen service door for airflow.
I have all DS hybrids. There is a different ability to control your temps and your humidity with them vs all screen or even glass. The air circulation is fantastic with them as well. It will pull the ambient room temps quite well.

The more live plants you have the better because it will help stabilize your humidity levels.

Really until you have your actual set up done with all the plants and branches your not going to know what your really going to get. Because if you have plants sitting higher in the cage it will help pull humidity higher as well. Lights on the top reduce the humidity level there. You want gradients in the enclosure and Bill speaks to that in the husbandry program.

It may mean upgrading your fogger your using for the enclosure. I do not know what type of output yours really has or how long the small reservoir will last for at night.

 

[ZenxAero]

Yes, the window film is duct brand and like 7 bucks at home depot. Just use it on the door panel and leave the screen service door for airflow.
I have all DS hybrids. There is a different ability to control your temps and your humidity with them vs all screen or even glass. The air circulation is fantastic with them as well. It will pull the ambient room temps quite well.

The more live plants you have the better because it will help stabilize your humidity levels.

Really until you have your actual set up done with all the plants and branches your not going to know what your really going to get. Because if you have plants sitting higher in the cage it will help pull humidity higher as well. Lights on the top reduce the humidity level there. You want gradients in the enclosure and Bill speaks to that in the husbandry program.

It may mean upgrading your fogger your using for the enclosure. I do not know what type of output yours really has or how long the small reservoir will last for at night.

Thank you so much for helping me! I will make the changes you suggested. While we are in the topic. Is the 16x16x30 an okay size to have for a baby and upgrade to DS in a month or get the DS before I get him?

 

[Beman]

Thank you so much for helping me! I will make the changes you suggested. While we are in the topic. Is the 16x16x30 an okay size to have for a baby and upgrade to DS in a month or get the DS before I get him?

Yeah that will be fine. Just make sure your lighting is correct for UVB if you bought the cham kit. Make sure you order the enclosure you need or email Bill about it to find out the build/delivery schedule. Sometimes there can be a month delay on build or delivery.

I do not have experience with this species. @DocZ does though and he has his indoors. Maybe he can help assist you as well.

 

[ZenxAero]

Yeah that will be fine. Just make sure your lighting is correct for UVB if you bought the cham kit. Make sure you order the enclosure you need or email Bill about it to find out the build/delivery schedule. Sometimes there can be a month delay on build or delivery.

I do not have experience with this species. @DocZ does though and he has his indoors. Maybe he can help assist you as well.

I currently have an Arcadia T5 6% and these lights for the heat bulb: https://www.homedepot.com/p/206837663

I’ll check my local Home Depot after the weekend since I have work and school projects happening this weekend so I’m packed with time.

I noticed on the DS website it states the next shipment for hybrids is Feb. 20th, 2021 so if I can get the money by then I will just set up the DS instead.

 

[Beman]

I currently have an Arcadia T5 6% and these lights for the heat bulb: https://www.homedepot.com/p/206837663

I’ll check my local Home Depot after the weekend since I have work and school projects happening this weekend so I’m packed with time.

I noticed on the DS website it states the next shipment for hybrids is Feb. 20th, 2021 so if I can get the money by then I will just set up the DS instead.

So the arcadia T5 and 6% would be correct. According the the care sheet they need a higher UVI then my Veileds. So pay attention to the basking level placement and the directions on that sheet. I use the same that you have and get a 3 UVI 9 inches down at the branch. That care sheet says 6 inches to the back of your species for the 4-5 UVI, so depending on how tall they stand off the branch you want to account for that in your total distance to the branch from the lights... When I use my solarmeter below mine 6 inches away it is a 4.5 UVI. I would guess that total distance being 7-8 inches to account for body size is what your going to be looking for to get into the UVI range they need.

Those are the eco incandescent bulbs so equivalent to a 72 watt regular bulb. Double check your temps at basking using a probe with a wired digital gauge. You may need to raise the fixture up a bit off the screen to get the basking temp you need.

 

[ZenxAero]

So the arcadia T5 and 6% would be correct. According the the care sheet they need a higher UVI then my Veileds. So pay attention to the basking level placement and the directions on that sheet. I use the same that you have and get a 3 UVI 9 inches down at the branch. That care sheet says 6 inches to the back of your species for the 4-5 UVI, so depending on how tall they stand off the branch you want to account for that in your total distance to the branch from the lights... When I use my solarmeter below mine 6 inches away it is a 4.5 UVI. I would guess that total distance being 7-8 inches to account for body size is what your going to be looking for to get into the UVI range they need.

Those are the eco incandescent bulbs so equivalent to a 72 watt regular bulb. Double check your temps at basking using a probe with a wired digital gauge. You may need to raise the fixture up a bit off the screen to get the basking temp you need.

I have a temp gun to check the temperature gradient in the enclosure

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071NBJJ2...lT1_QSJABTC2M3GPZ3W4G03T?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


And with the eco incandescent bulbs are dimmable, I have them dimmmed and they produce about 81-83 3 inches down currently. I also know I should probably lower the temp since he will be a baby (I don’t want him to burn himself by being upside down).
And on the topic of lights. Will I need a full spectrum light for the plants or will the Arcadia 6% and heat bulb suffice?

 

[Livingstons Lizards]

I would recommend a glass enclosure. Firstly because of the high humidity requirements. I keep mine at around 55-65% during the day and 90-100% at night. Given that they are an incredibly higher altitude species I've found glass works the best. I've gotten two clutches, albeit from a WC adult, but the first clutch I kept in a 18x16x24 Zilla Screen enclosure with 2 small schefflera & a royal palm. Lost 13/ 14 babies in the first 2 or 3 months due to improper humidity. The second round I kept in a 12x12x36 & 18x18x36 Exo Terra and only lost 2/12. Granted these are my first 2 clutches and there could be over factors im overlooking, however the biggest one was screen vs glass.
I keep mine with a daytime ambient of 65-73, basking 73-75, and nighttime of about 55-63. They are more of a scrub occupy species than tree top like a veiled or Panther. Mine regularly move up and down the schefflera foraging for food and regulating temperatures. I would suggest a thick & full schefflera plant to fill the whole area. Ill attach the picture of my adults habitat in a 24x18x24 Exo Terra. I use an Arcadia 12% T8 and a 25watt Zilla Halogen. I've tried the 20watt Xenon Pluck Lights but the temperature is too hot directly below the light and didn't have much of an effect on the rest of the enclosure.

 

[ZenxAero]

I would recommend a glass enclosure. Firstly because of the high humidity requirements. I keep mine at around 55-65% during the day and 90-100% at night. Given that they are an incredibly higher altitude species I've found glass works the best. I've gotten two clutches, albeit from a WC adult, but the first clutch I kept in a 18x16x24 Zilla Screen enclosure with 2 small schefflera & a royal palm. Lost 13/ 14 babies in the first 2 or 3 months due to improper humidity. The second round I kept in a 12x12x36 & 18x18x36 Exo Terra and only lost 2/12. Granted these are my first 2 clutches and there could be over factors im overlooking, however the biggest one was screen vs glass.
I keep mine with a daytime ambient of 65-73, basking 73-75, and nighttime of about 55-63. They are more of a scrub occupy species than tree top like a veiled or Panther. Mine regularly move up and down the schefflera foraging for food and regulating temperatures. I would suggest a thick & full schefflera plant to fill the whole area. Ill attach the picture of my adults habitat in a 24x18x24 Exo Terra. I use an Arcadia 12% T8 and a 25watt Zilla Halogen. I've tried the 20watt Xenon Pluck Lights but the temperature is too hot directly below the light and didn't have much of an effect on the rest of the enclosure.

Why the 12% over the 6%?

 

[Beman]

I have a temp gun to check the temperature gradient in the enclosure

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071NBJJ2...lT1_QSJABTC2M3GPZ3W4G03T?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


And with the eco incandescent bulbs are dimmable, I have them dimmmed and they produce about 81-83 3 inches down currently. I also know I should probably lower the temp since he will be a baby (I don’t want him to burn himself by being upside down).
And on the topic of lights. Will I need a full spectrum light for the plants or will the Arcadia 6% and heat bulb suffice?

I would still recommend a wired probe for basking. Temp gun only gives you the surface temperature.

You will want to do lighting for plants. You can use 6500k T5 daylight bulbs or LED options like the sansi or jungle dawn.

 

[Livingstons Lizards]

Why the 12% over the 6%?

The T8s are less powerful than the T5. So my T8 12% is comparable to your T5 6%

 

[ZenxAero]

I would still recommend a wired probe for basking. Temp gun only gives you the surface temperature.

You will want to do lighting for plants. You can use 6500k T5 daylight bulbs or LED options like the sansi or jungle dawn.

Can you point me in the direction of the bulbs I need? I have looked at the jungle dawn but IMO it’s a little bit too pricey for what you’re getting, but I’ve never heard of Sansi

 

[Beman]

Can you point me in the direction of the bulbs I need? I have looked at the jungle dawn but IMO it’s a little bit too pricey for what you’re getting, but I’ve never heard of Sansi

I do not use the sansi ones but there are some threads on them in the forum. If you use the search function it will pull them up.

I use these and they come with the 6500 daylight bulbs. I run two of these and then a 3rd for UVB https://www.pangeareptile.com/store/t5-uvb-light-fixture.html

But I would not need a basking fixture with these in a hybrid because they put off heat. I can get a 80-82 degree basking without adding another basking fixture.

 

[redhorse]

Howdy! Can you share who has baby helmets? I am wondering if your purchasing CB or WC from an online store. Usually if it is from online store (almost always with a species like this) they have WC adults that have babies and $$$$. Just want to throw out that info so maybe you can buy CB from someone in Forum. JMO-
Beautiful set-up too.

Plus, at this time of the year if your ordering from FL make sure shipping line is clear from bad weather or delays (new babies don't travel well with to much heat from heat pad or to cold). Sorry, I tend to over think things.

 

[ZenxAero]

Howdy! Can you share who has baby helmets? I am wondering if your purchasing CB or WC from an online store. Usually if it is from online store (almost always with a species like this) they have WC adults that have babies and $$$$. Just want to throw out that info so maybe you can buy CB from someone in Forum. JMO-
Beautiful set-up too.

Plus, at this time of the year if your ordering from FL make sure shipping line is clear from bad weather or delays (new babies don't travel well with to much heat from heat pad or to cold). Sorry, I tend to over think things.

It is a local shop. They had got a pair WC and the dam gave birth upon arrival. They have/are caring for the babies until they are are 3 months and then selling them. I would be willing to order from someone on these forums especially if they can help me iron some of the kinks out.

 

[redhorse]

Just saw this guy (Bob C) in the General photo page maybe you can connect (I did send him someone was looking) I don't know if we can mention names not sure of the rules. I am new and don't want to step on toes. Good Luck!