parson's...

[staysixsixsixkid]

ive been trying to get myself a parsons, but i cant find a way to get one from anywhere. even the reptile store by me which can get anything cant get one, i know theyre super hard to get n expensive as heck, i remember chameleonsonly had them forsale a while back when i was broke. now that i have money i cant seem to find them forsale. Does anyone know anyway i could get one?

 

[Syn]

Really aren't any legal options, they are banned from export.

 

[Montium]

So the ones that were at the Daytona show were illegal?

I bet CA would not agree.

They are out there but they are not easy to find for many reasons.

 

[summoner12]

ive been trying to get myself a parsons, but i cant find a way to get one from anywhere. even the reptile store by me which can get anything cant get one, i know theyre super hard to get n expensive as heck, i remember chameleonsonly had them forsale a while back when i was broke. now that i have money i cant seem to find them forsale. Does anyone know anyway i could get one?

The best way to get one is to know someone who has them.... then you must gain their trust... which will be pretty hard... and THEN maybe the person might refer you to someone who knows how to get them...

People with parsoni don't think of themselves as elitists... but just that since there are such limited numbers of parsoni in the country, only experienced and trustworthy people should have them... and people with parsoni like to kinda lay low sometimes because they don't want someone to call fish and game on them even if the animals are legal.

Sure, lots of people would love to have some parsoni... but not everyone is able to care and provide for them... so people with the 'connection' try to make sure they go to the right hands... (this is assuming the animal is coming here legally... if not then the thief will sell to whoever)

 

[summoner12]

So the ones that were at the Daytona show were illegal?

I bet CA would not agree.

They are out there but they are not easy to find for many reasons.

They were legal... because they didn't come from Mady.... If they are from a different country... they are legal. I am no expert... but this is what I have learned from reading posts by Chris Anderson and others.

The bottom line is you need to be sure they are legal...

I sorta think of it this way... if you aren't affluent with the process, rules and regulations, you aren't ready for the animal. There is a lot more to them than just 'oh cool I have a highly sought after animal, I am so cool'

 

[Syn]

Hence the reason I said "really" and not definitely.

 

[Chris Anderson]

Hence the reason I said "really" and not definitely.

Syn - Can you honestly say you know of a single parsonii sold in the US in the last year that did not come in with CITES documents? Can you honestly say you know anything more about the status of parsonii in the US then anyone who does a 2 second search on the forum?

Just wondering...

Chris

 

[Syn]

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32590&highlight=parsonii+illegal

I can honestly say that people can say they have CITES, but not really have them at all, or at least that's what I've been told.
I can also honestly say that I have heard of many people illegally trying to obtain Parsonii quite often. (But actually getting them, I am unaware.)

But alright. Thanks Chris.

 

[Kent67]

*Sigh* https://www.chameleonforums.com/index.php?page=conservation_mg

 

[summoner12]

*Sigh* https://www.chameleonforums.com/index.php?page=conservation_mg

This is why you are a mod Kent.

Oh, and you ROCK hehe

 

[summoner12]

This is disgusting.....

While it is possible that some of the juveniles smuggled out of Indonesia and into the EU hatched from eggs that were produced be the specimens shipped to Indonesia in 2001, it is more likely the eggs came from a far worse source. Gravid wild females are harvested in Madagascar and transported to exporters who butcher the females to extract the fertile eggs, then smuggle the eggs out of MG and into the hands of private hobbyists or dealers who try to hatch them and pass the hatchlings off as captive-bred. It is nearly impossible to detect and stop egg smuggling.

 

[Chris Anderson]

I can honestly say that people can say they have CITES, but not really have them at all, or at least that's what I've been told.
I can also honestly say that I have heard of many people illegally trying to obtain Parsonii quite often. (But actually getting them, I am unaware.)

But alright. Thanks Chris.

Syn,

You might want to brush up on your facts before you start in on topics you don't know the first thing about. The issue with C. parsonii is that even though they come in with CITES documents, and are thus legal animals, the origin of those animals is often drawn into question because of the rarity of documented captive breedings. Specifically, there is doubt as to whether they are actually CBB from parents imported before the 1995 ban or if they are actually wild collected hatchlings, captive hatched from eggs collected in the wild, captive hatched eggs from WC gravid females or CBB from parents imported after the 1995 ban. The latter four scenarios violate CITES but unless they can be proven (which they never have been), the animals are legal since they were issued CITES that were stamped and approved upon entry into the US. The subject is controversial and ultimately the buyer needs to be educated about the situation surrounding the status of the species and decide where they want to stand on the issue.

Chris

 

[Syn]

Good info Chris, thanks.

 

[Chris Anderson]

staysixsixsixkid,

As you probably gathered, C. parsonii are a very controversial species in collections and they should not be taken lightly for a number of reasons. The ethics around the suspected origins of many of the animals that do end up on the market are complicated and potentially troubling. Anyone considering working with the species should be well versed in the situation so that they can decide in what capacity they want to support these potentially questionable practices. Further, their care is quite a bit more specific then you'll encounter with F. pardalis, Ch. calyptratus and T. jacksonii. People may tell you that they are easy to care for but you'll probably find upon more investigation that these are the people who haven't been keeping them very long. When they are set up correctly, they can do quite well but they have specific requirements that must be met (high water requirements, moderate temperatures, high humidity, diverse feeder items, etc.) and they can be more difficult to provide then it might seem. I would not recommend them to anyone without a considerable amount of breeding and keeping experience.

Chris

 

[staysixsixsixkid]

This is disgusting.....

that is the most horrible* up thing ive ever heard. how the hell could somone* do that. those bastids deserve to be burnt alive after months of torture gteting their reproductive system cut out and fed to them..

 

[summoner12]

It is disturbing........ Which is exactly why I would take what Chris has said to heart..... I know there are some out there that have parsoni... and some of them keep this species to learn about them... and there are people out there that just want them as pets.... I support anyone who is a keeper of parsoni that contributes to the parsoni community to further the knowledge and understanding of captive care and breeding practices. If you aren't on that boat, GTFO!

 

[staysixsixsixkid]

It is disturbing........ Which is exactly why I would take what Chris has said to heart..... I know there are some out there that have parsoni... and some of them keep this species to learn about them... and there are people out there that just want them as pets.... I support anyone who is a keeper of parsoni that contributes to the parsoni community to further the knowledge and understanding of captive care and breeding practices. If you aren't on that boat, GTFO!

my goal whenever the oppotuinty comes, and i know it will adventually because i just feel like ill have the luck whether it tomorrow or in 2 years, but i am going to get a male and female and study every behavior that they show and breed them. ever since i got into chameleons ive always wanted to get a chance to breed the most incredible reptile ive ever laid my eyes on. and i know im going to get that opportunity eventually, sorry if that made no sense or im just babbling but even if i were to manage to successfully hatch a single clutch id feel like i put my 2 cents in n maybe saved a poor female from being slaughtered by some peice of shit tryin to make a buck destorying perfectly healthy wild animals.

i really just sounded like a hippie lol

 

[Cainschams]

my goal whenever the oppotuinty comes, and i know it will adventually because i just feel like ill have the luck whether it tomorrow or in 2 years, but i am going to get a male and female and study every behavior that they show and breed them. ever since i got into chameleons ive always wanted to get a chance to breed the most incredible reptile ive ever laid my eyes on. and i know im going to get that opportunity eventually, sorry if that made no sense or im just babbling but even if i were to manage to successfully hatch a single clutch id feel like i put my 2 cents in n maybe saved a poor female from being slaughtered by some peice of shit tryin to make a buck destorying perfectly healthy wild animals.

i really just sounded like a hippie lol

I am sorry but your efforts will do nothing for this species in the wild. Do you really think that when a species is extinct or near extinct that the government is just going to allow some Joe Shmoe hobby breeder to dump his "stock" back into the wild? Do you think that some success with this species will stop the smuggling of these species? I highly doubt it. Not even government restrictions can fully put a stop to it. However, to call these people in third world countries a piece of....trying to make a buck, is an arrogant and ignorant statement. They are fighting to survive. It does not make it right but do you know what it is like to be in their situation? I think not. None of us do. As much as you or anyone else thinks humans as a whole, or even us more "civilized cultures", are different from other animals needs to step back and.......well, dispose of themselves. I think some of us forget where we come from or do not believe

 

[nick barta]

I am sorry but your efforts will do nothing for this species in the wild. Do you really think that when a species is extinct or near extinct that the government is just going to allow some Joe Shmoe hobby breeder to dump his "stock" back into the wild? Do you think that some success with this species will stop the smuggling of these species? I highly doubt it. Not even government restrictions can fully put a stop to it. However, to call these people in third world countries a piece of....trying to make a buck, is an arrogant and ignorant statement. They are fighting to survive. It does not make it right but do you know what it is like to be in their situation? I think not. None of us do. As much as you or anyone else thinks humans as a whole, or even us more "civilized cultures", are different from other animals needs to step back and.......well, dispose of themselves. I think some of us forget where we come from or do not believe

Well said

Nick

 

[Fidel]

that is the most horrible* up thing ive ever heard. how the hell could somone* do that. those bastids deserve to be burnt alive after months of torture gteting their reproductive system cut out and fed to them..

They would have no reason to do that if people were not willing to pay $3000 for them. Who do you think is more to blame, the ones who create the demand or the ones who fulfill said demand? What came first,Chicken or the egg?