As far as I know there's no zoologist or anyone with a Degree in this subject so we are all Equels..
First and for most who are you to judge me about my knowledge about the Parsonii/Chameleons...You sound very self centered about this subject.
Kayla - Actually, I am a herpetologist/biologist, I do have a degree in the subject, and my Ph.D. dissertation research is on chameleons. I've worked with this species for the last 6 years, visited them in the wild, spent a considerable amount of time over the last 12 years trying to improve the availability of chameleon information and improve the overall success of the chameleon hobby. As a result, you might say that I definitely have a strong interest in protecting the interests of this and other species in the wild, in captivity and the interests of the chameleon community and breeding efforts as a whole. That does not mean everyone else is not absolutely welcome and encouraged to post their opinions or thoughts by any means (I wish more people put more thought and consideration into some of these issues) but I have put a certain amount of time and effort into some of these issues over the years and have strong opinions on them that I tend to be vocal about.
why shouldnt I be able to distribute them to other chameleon hobbyist such as yourself?!
If in doing so you make the entire chameleon community, the reptile industry and included in those groups of people, those individuals who have put in the time and effort to do these animals justice, look reckless, irresponsible and ignorant while at the same time jeopardizing the future ability of truly dedicated individuals from obtaining this species in the future, you absolutely should not be able to do this. The trade status of imported C. parsonii is hotly debated and this is a subject that has not passed unseen by the United States Fish and Wildlife Service. C. parsonii are a focal species of chameleon and their trade is highly monitored. The legal and moral debates around this species are extremely fluid and could easily change into a situation where we would no longer be able to acquire these animals in the future. Government and non-government agencies are particularly conscious of the reckless and irresponsible importation of various reptiles and often use this to push national and state legislation through that limits or prohibits our hobby. There are a number of such efforts currently being pushed. Any instance where these animals are imported in anything but the most careful of circumstances by experienced individuals who have dedicated the necessary time into establishing these animals is a horrendous disservice to not only the species in captivity but to the entire chameleon community and reptile industry as a whole.
You were right 3 months ago I did post questions about the Parsonii in search of support of the post in the Chameleon Forum Community....I have done very extensive research on the Parsonii Chameleon, and feel very confident that I will be able to care for them properly.
Reading about this species on a couple websites and listening to the small tidbits keepers are willing to share on this species on a public forum is not going to be a substitute the years of experience and knowledge needed to fall back on in order to even come close to succeeding with this species in captivity. The most experienced chameleon keepers in the world have tried tirelessly to establish this species and few have managed to successfully keep this species long term, let alone breed them. These individuals did not only read every source available, they had years and years of experience with countless species to fall back on and still most failed. I would never claim that keeping and breeding them is impossible but you completely underestimate the challenges associated with this species or the value of proper experience before trying to work with them. Adult C. parsonii weigh as much as 900 grams. If we say that the average parsonii weighs 450 grams (an underestimate) that means that between 1986 and 1998, 8 tons of C. parsonii (~19,000 animals) were imported. Do you know how few survived? How few of those reproduced?
What your insinuating is that if you've never had a Specific Species of Chameleon is that you shouldnt obtain one because you dont have the knowledge to care for one...So what your trying to say is that if you've never had a Specific Species you should'nt obtain one.
No, I'm insinuating that certain species demand a degree of knowledge that can only be truly obtained by years of experience that you have not obtained. You are insinuating that by reading a book you can jump into keeping a tiger and you will understand how to read the animal and respond appropriately. Similar to this situation, when you fail to do so, it reflects poorly on the entire community and the animal itself ends up suffering. Not all chameleon species are the same or equal in their care requirements. It takes a lot of time and experience to be able to truly anticipate their needs and care for many of these species. C. parsonii is one of those species that can require a tremendous amount of experience.
whats the sense in being in a Hobby that you cant progress in and be challenged and learn new things...
You absolutely should move forward and progress but this does not include jumping beyond your experience or knowledge at the possible expense of the animals involved and the hobby as a whole. Obtaining a single parsonii for yourself is extremely different from importing a group of them to resell.
if you feel that strongly abut the subject you should be against all Parsonii Owners because other wise...How would you have gotten yours?!
No, quite the contrary. I've worked very hard for many years to acquire the experience and knowledge I have of chameleons to even begin to hope to succeed in breeding parsonii. When I see someone carelessly and irresponsibly jeopardize my ability to acquire more individuals in the future, that is when I am against it. I got my animals from extremely experienced individuals who took a great deal of time and effort to acquire healthy animals, take the best care possible of them and make sure they went to the best people.
Who go's to the wild?! Not only that..once you bring them into captivity thats a totally different atmosphere
I have. I've been to chameleon habitat in five countries, in fact and seen quite a few species in their natural habitat. I know a number of other individuals who have too. You can learn a lot from studying them in the wild. You would not be successful keeping them in captivity without much of the information people have learned from observing them in the wild.
Do to the negative response to my post I've decided not to go further with my shipment of the Parsonii Cham
As angry and upset as you might be, you are doing the right thing. You may not realize it but it is in the best interest of the animals themselves foremost that you not go forward bringing in a group of parsonii to resell until you have gained more experience. With increased pushes for legislation to limit and prohibit our hobby, there is no room for reckless or irresponsible practices, particularly with controversial and focal species like C. parsonii.
Although everything you said was 100% accurate.
Surely you understand then that we have the best interest of the animals and those trying to work with this species in mind then.
Chris
it is very fun reading all the info al these senior members have!
