Panther not moving

[davisc12]

My panther has been inactive latley. He doesn't move much after waking up. I thought it could be the warmer weather coming so I turned off his heat light and have also since put an ac in the room to keep it below 70-75 and he is still not moving. He does eat if food is visible but does has not come to the top to bask in quite awhile. I'm starting to get worried.

 

[Beman]

Can you post a picture of the entire cage set up including the lighting on top along with a few pics of the chameleon please?

 

[davisc12]

Can you post a picture of the entire cage set up including the lighting on top along with a few pics of the chameleon please?

 

[davisc12]

Can anyone help?!

 

[NeophytePantherCDad]

Are your lights red? Possible eye damage from red led light? I heard that maybe a thing messing with their visible spectrum. I am new though. How are his stools? Hydration? How old is he? Diet?

 

[davisc12]

Are your lights red? Possible eye damage from red led light? I heard that maybe a thing messing with their visible spectrum. I am new though. How are his stools? Hydration? How old is he? Diet?

Those are just 2 cheap plant lights I had before I got the jungle dawn. I will take them down just incase though. He has still been eating mostly dubias but also gets crickets silkworms and hornmorms. He does have a gular edema and had for a few months now but was still very active until recently. I got him in October and the person I got him from said he was around a year old then.

 

[Sonny13]

Hi and welcome. I think one more important question needs to answered; what supplements are you using? And how often which one?

 

[Beman]

For sure get rid of the colored lights. Second we need to know what supplements you are using and frequency, what UVB type and strength, and did you ever get a fecal test on him to ensure he did not have a parasite load?

 

[davisc12]

For sure get rid of the colored lights. Second we need to know what supplements you are using and frequency, what UVB type and strength, and did you ever get a fecal test on him to ensure he did not have a parasite load?

I removed the cheap plamt lights and have an arcadia 32watt uv and jungle dawn. I am using calcium without d3 every feeding and was using repashy multi vit. He developed a gular edema a few months back so I discontinued use for awhile but have since restarted at 2x a month but using less.

 

[Beman]

I removed the cheap plamt lights and have an arcadia 32watt uv and jungle dawn. I am using calcium without d3 every feeding and was using repashy multi vit. He developed a gular edema a few months back so I discontinued use for awhile but have since restarted at 2x a month but using less.

OK what is the bulb strength of the UVB and how close can he get to it? Which repashy multivitamin, there are quite a few and some are not recommended for chams.

If the Edema was due to supplements you would have seen it completely subside within a month. Which means something else is going on in his body cause the build up of fluid.
I would recommend a full husbandry review if you have not done one or if you have done one and did not implement all of the advice given. And I would recommend making an appointment with a really good reptile vet that can run a fecal test to ensure there is not a parasite load but also run blood work to make sure there is no sign of infection and that his renal function is good.

 

[davisc12]

OK what is the bulb strength of the UVB and how close can he get to it? Which repashy multivitamin, there are quite a few and some are not recommended for chams.

If the Edema was due to supplements you would have seen it completely subside within a month. Which means something else is going on in his body cause the build up of fluid.
I would recommend a full husbandry review if you have not done one or if you have done one and did not implement all of the advice given. And I would recommend making an appointment with a really good reptile vet that can run a fecal test to ensure there is not a parasite load but also run blood work to make sure there is no sign of infection and that his renal function is good.

Ive been working on getting him into a new vet the previous vet was awful with our beardie and even worse with the cham. The only thing I've been told to change in the enclosure was that I needed more foliage. I did put two more pothos on but it may still be on the thin side. But with him continuing to decline I think a full review couldn't hurt.

 

[ToastyCham]

Ive been working on getting him into a new vet the previous vet was awful with our beardie and even worse with the cham. The only thing I've been told to change in the enclosure was that I needed more foliage. I did put two more pothos on but it may still be on the thin side. But with him continuing to decline I think a full review couldn't hurt.

Hi! Here is the husbandry review sheet. Copy and paste it and then fill it out and we will try to help you.


Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[davisc12]

Hi! Here is the husbandry review sheet. Copy and paste it and then fill it out and we will try to help you.


Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - panther 1.5 years old I've had him since October.
• Handling - never, has never let me handle him.
• Feeding - primarily dubi roaches but also feed crickets, silkworms, and horned worms
• Supplements - calcium with every feeding repashy plus x2 a month
• Watering - hand spray x2 a day before and after lights come on. Also iv bag for dripper
• Fecal Description - his most recent movement was a bit hard and a little orange
• History - due to using rodi water I was concerned with minerals so I was giving more vitamins than recommend and he developed a gular edema a few months back. I discontinued vitamins for awhile but after seeing no change I have since re started his vitamins.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - 2x2x4 hybrid. 3 sides of the cage are plexi. And I have 2 pc fans for ventilation.
• Lighting - arcadia 6% 32watt
• Temperature - I keep my apt around 72 and had his basking branch in the low 80s with a 50 watt bulb. Since he stopped basking I have had the basking bulb turned off the past week or so and he is still not coming to his uv branch.
• Humidity - 99% at night using a fogger and it drops to 55-60% during the day.
• Plants - mostly pothos with a few doing wax plants still in there
• Placement - I have the enclosure in my spare room with all my fish tanks.
• Location - Rhode Island

Current Problem - no improvement with his gullar edema and has been inactive latley, not coming to bask at all.

 

[Beman]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - panther 1.5 years old I've had him since October.
• Handling - never, has never let me handle him.
• Feeding - primarily dubi roaches but also feed crickets, silkworms, and horned worms
• Supplements - calcium with every feeding repashy plus x2 a month
• Watering - hand spray x2 a day before and after lights come on. Also iv bag for dripper
• Fecal Description - his most recent movement was a bit hard and a little orange
• History - due to using rodi water I was concerned with minerals so I was giving more vitamins than recommend and he developed a gular edema a few months back. I discontinued vitamins for awhile but after seeing no change I have since re started his vitamins.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - 2x2x4 hybrid. 3 sides of the cage are plexi. And I have 2 pc fans for ventilation.
• Lighting - arcadia 6% 32watt
• Temperature - I keep my apt around 72 and had his basking branch in the low 80s with a 50 watt bulb. Since he stopped basking I have had the basking bulb turned off the past week or so and he is still not coming to his uv branch.
• Humidity - 99% at night using a fogger and it drops to 55-60% during the day.
• Plants - mostly pothos with a few doing wax plants still in there
• Placement - I have the enclosure in my spare room with all my fish tanks.
• Location - Rhode Island

Current Problem - no improvement with his gullar edema and has been inactive latley, not coming to bask at all.

Ok looking at everything here... There is very little out of order.

What do you actually feed him? Is it a diet based on Dubia? IF so what do you feed the dubia?

Is the repashy the calcium Plus LoD with a jacksons chameleon on it or is it the regular calcium plus. If it is the regular calcium plus then this one has much higher levels and can cause issues.

Can I see more pics actually showing the edema as it is now?

Have you ever gotten a fecal sample done on him?

 

[davisc12]

Ok looking at everything here... There is very little out of order.

What do you actually feed him? Is it a diet based on Dubia? IF so what do you feed the dubia?

Is the repashy the calcium Plus LoD with a jacksons chameleon on it or is it the regular calcium plus. If it is the regular calcium plus then this one has much higher levels and can cause issues.

Can I see more pics actually showing the edema as it is now?

Have you ever gotten a fecal sample done on him?

We have not had a fecal test professionally done. I have been trying to get him and my bearded dragon into a new vet for wellness checks because the previous vet we used was useless with the bearded dragon which is much more common then a chameleon so i certainly do not trust her with him. The new vet keeps telling my to try back next month unless it's an emergency. I do have a microscope and made some float solution and while I didn't see anything in the chamelon and only saw a few moving cells in the bearded dragons slide, I am not confident in my test and I did not ID of what I saw but because I only saw a few on the entire slide I wasn't to worried until I can finally get then nothing in for a proper exam.

I'm having a hard time getting a good shot at the edema but it does appear to have gone way down he used to have 2 lumps like man boobs now it just looks a bit puffy. But his color is still verry dull but did come to the top of his enclosure today for just a short but it's somthing.

 

[Beman]

We have not had a fecal test professionally done. I have been trying to get him and my bearded dragon into a new vet for wellness checks because the previous vet we used was useless with the bearded dragon which is much more common then a chameleon so i certainly do not trust her with him. The new vet keeps telling my to try back next month unless it's an emergency. I do have a microscope and made some float solution and while I didn't see anything in the chamelon and only saw a few moving cells in the bearded dragons slide, I am not confident in my test and I did not ID of what I saw but because I only saw a few on the entire slide I wasn't to worried until I can finally get then nothing in for a proper exam.

I'm having a hard time getting a good shot at the edema but it does appear to have gone way down he used to have 2 lumps like man boobs now it just looks a bit puffy. But his color is still verry dull but did come to the top of his enclosure today for just a short but it's somthing.

I dunno my understanding of fecal floats is you have to have a high enough magnifying lens to see the oocysts.

Which repashy multivitamin are you using?

When you get a chance take pics. I am wondering if you are really still seeing edema or just normal anatomy.

 

[davisc12]

I dunno my understanding of fecal floats is you have to have a high enough magnifying lens to see the oocysts.

Which repashy multivitamin are you using?

When you get a chance take pics. I am wondering if you are really still seeing edema or just normal anatomy.

I do have a lab grade microscope that I use for identifying bacterias in my reef tanks that require much more magnification than needed for a float test but again I am not confident in my ability and am still hopeful to get a proper test and wellness check soon. I did check the repashy and it is the LoD with a chameleon on the bottle. I will get some better pictures tonight after work, but it does seem the edema has gone down quite a bit. Like I said he had some man boobs a few weeks back like 2 small marble size sacks under almost in his armpits but now just looked a little puffy.

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi. I’m not sure I can be of any help, but it won’t hurt to throw my questions/thoughts out there.
Are you using bee pollen either directly to him or to his feeders? Anecdotally it has been suspected as a cause for edema in some chameleons, although primarily veileds.
What are you feeding your feeder insects?
Does he have a view of your fish? Are they large or brightly colored fish? Not sure how a chameleon would view a fish, but they might think they are just strange birds if they are larger, which could be perceived as a potential predator. Also, many chameleons get upset by certain colors, like reds. If he can see your fish, if possible, even though you don’t think your fish would bother him, try blocking his view of them for a few days or so and see if that makes any difference. If he is upset by seeing them, that would be chronic stress, which could account for some general decline.
How long are you misting for? How long are you using a dripper for? Is this the first time you’ve seen orange urate? Try adding a 2 minute misting about 30 minutes before lights out.
Sometimes it’s the simplest things that are easily overlooked, so I do have to ask if your calcium contains vitamin D3 or not.
Do turn his basking light back on. Cooling him down will result in slowing him down. Basking temp should be around 85 or so.
When he does move, is he using all of his limbs normally? Some have said that a diet high in roaches can cause gout, which would cause kidney effects just before appearing.
Again, I don’t know if any of my thoughts are relative, but one never knows. I do hope you figure it all out with your guy.

 

[davisc12]

Hi. I’m not sure I can be of any help, but it won’t hurt to throw my questions/thoughts out there.
Are you using bee pollen either directly to him or to his feeders? Anecdotally it has been suspected as a cause for edema in some chameleons, although primarily veileds.
What are you feeding your feeder insects?
Does he have a view of your fish? Are they large or brightly colored fish? Not sure how a chameleon would view a fish, but they might think they are just strange birds if they are larger, which could be perceived as a potential predator. Also, many chameleons get upset by certain colors, like reds. If he can see your fish, if possible, even though you don’t think your fish would bother him, try blocking his view of them for a few days or so and see if that makes any difference. If he is upset by seeing them, that would be chronic stress, which could account for some general decline.
How long are you misting for? How long are you using a dripper for? Is this the first time you’ve seen orange urate? Try adding a 2 minute misting about 30 minutes before lights out.
Sometimes it’s the simplest things that are easily overlooked, so I do have to ask if your calcium contains vitamin D3 or not.
Do turn his basking light back on. Cooling him down will result in slowing him down. Basking temp should be around 85 or so.
When he does move, is he using all of his limbs normally? Some have said that a diet high in roaches can cause gout, which would cause kidney effects just before appearing.
Again, I don’t know if any of my thoughts are relative, but one never knows. I do hope you figure it all out with your guy. his enclosure does not have a

I haven't considered the fish much because his enclosure is tucked into the corner of the room next to a plant rack facing my computer desk and small reef tank across the room. The big football size fish are towards the opposite corner but I'm sure he can see them so this may be worth trying to address.

As far as misting I do not mist very long. I have a pumping hand mister I use x2 a day and wet all the leaves, sticks, ect just long enough to rly soak everything before the fogger comes on. And again before I leave for work in the am and the lights are gonna come on. I do have the lights om 12am-12pm

The dripper I am inconsistent with every few days I'll put a few bottles of poland spring in there and turn on when I leave and turn off when lights go out but there are days I don't turn it on or fill it up.

I have seen a hint of orange before on the very tip this time it was more like 1/4 orange but everything seemed harder

The calcium does not have d3, we have never given bee pollen to him or the feeders. The silk worms, crickets, don't get fed anything we use them quickly but I do order 500 roaches at a time which I mostly feed oats and scraps from our bearded dragons salad.

When I do see him move it's extremely slow I have to speed up the camera to like x10 and it does look like he's moving normal but at normal speed ild say a sloth would run laps around him.

 

[MissSkittles]

I haven't considered the fish much because his enclosure is tucked into the corner of the room next to a plant rack facing my computer desk and small reef tank across the room. The big football size fish are towards the opposite corner but I'm sure he can see them so this may be worth trying to address. View attachment 356404View attachment 356405

As far as misting I do not mist very long. I have a pumping hand mister I use x2 a day and wet all the leaves, sticks, ect just long enough to rly soak everything before the fogger comes on. And again before I leave for work in the am and the lights are gonna come on. I do have the lights om 12am-12pm

The dripper I am inconsistent with every few days I'll put a few bottles of poland spring in there and turn on when I leave and turn off when lights go out but there are days I don't turn it on or fill it up.

I have seen a hint of orange before on the very tip this time it was more like 1/4 orange but everything seemed harder

The calcium does not have d3, we have never given bee pollen to him or the feeders. The silk worms, crickets, don't get fed anything we use them quickly but I do order 500 roaches at a time which I mostly feed oats and scraps from our bearded dragons salad.

When I do see him move it's extremely slow I have to speed up the camera to like x10 and it does look like he's moving normal but at normal speed ild say a sloth would run laps around him.

Ok, so try blocking his view of the bigger fish. You definitely want to mist for longer and you might want to consider investing in a misting system, like a Mist King.
The silkworms should come with a small amount of their specific chow. The crickets do need to be fed something or you’re just giving pretty much an empty shell. Food and nutrients pass thru them very quickly and most pet stores feed them very poorly - usually just the jelly stuff which only hydrates them or a piece of potato. I can’t recall what it was about feeding oats to bugs that wasn’t so great. Maybe @Beman or @Sonny13 remembers. When you say you feed scraps from your beardie’s salads, I have to assume you mean it’s the same ingredients, but not anything that has been fed/refused by your dragon, yes? Another one of those questions that needs to be asked - do you or have you given anything to your chameleon that had been in contact with your beardie? Do you make sure to use separate tongs for them? Do you wash your hands well after contact with your beardie and its items? Part of a beardie’s natural gut flora is coccidia (in very low numbers), so it’s very important to maintain precautions and good hygiene practices between them. Going back to crickets, if you are getting them from a pet store, that too can pose a potential parasite risk if the employees are not taking adequate precautions. Getting a fecal done is really best. If you need help finding a good vet with chameleon experience in your area, we can usually offer some help. Hopefully this link works.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/attachments/chameleon-forums-vet-list-2024-u-s-a-pdf.355813/