Panther not eating much and weird yellow patch on flank

[Rodderz]

Hi,

I returned from holiday to find that my Panther Chameleon had developed an odd looking yellow patch on his flank. He has also not been eating much this past week, although he did just eat a morio worm out of my hand.

He was being looked after by an experienced reptile dealer so not sure what has happened to him. The temperature has dropped quite dramatically here this past week as well, prompting me to bring out the ceramic heater, so that may also have had an effect.

Any ideas of what could be causing the yellow patch?

Pics attached:

 

[camimom]

its odd looking, but it seems to be just normal coloring.

 

[Rodderz]

I dont think so because when looking at him from behind that patch seems to be slightly raised up compared to the rest of his skin. Also he seems a bit restless and his grip seems weaker than normal. Even when varying his colours within the normal range that he displays this patch consistently stays yellow.

Combined with the fact that he has hardly eaten anything over the past week makes me think something is wrong. He usually promptly gobbles up his locusts and dubia's but this last week has has had no interest in eating them whatsoever.

Any ideas greatly appreciated

 

[Rodderz]

I have also noticed that he occasionally opens his mouth slightly and very briefly sticks his tongue out slightly before closing his mouth again. There is no oral discharge however.

 

[SarahcoadunatioZac]

Is it perhaps a burn? There was a chameleon with bright yellow splotches on his back that turned out to be a burn.

 

[Rodderz]

I would say a burn is highly unlikely as his heaters are safely suspended above the mesh of his enclosure. As he has not been eating his locusts its possible that one of them hopped on him during the day and had a nibble. Does anyone know what insect bites look like on chameleon skin?

 

[Rodderz]

I have given him a thorough look over this morning and I have noticed that the spines running along his back have gone a bit soft and some seem to be flaking away slightly. the colour of his skin around the spines has also yellowed in a similar way to the spot on his flank:





I would really appreciate help diagnosing whats wrong as I am getting very worried. I will take him to the vet tomorrow but I am not confident that they will know whats wrong, chameleons are not commonly kept in captivity where I live.

Thanks in advance

 

[Rodderz]

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - Panther Chameleon, approx 1 year old, have had him about 7 months.
Handling - A couple of times per week
Feeding - Crickets, Locusts, Morio Worms, Dubia Roaches Silkworms. several each day. Rotate feeders daily. Gutloaded with commercial gutload and fresh veg (usually carrot, parsnip, sweet potato.
Supplements - Exo terra calcium (daily), exo terra calcium + D3 (every 2-4 weeks or so), vetark nutrobal (every 2-4 weeks or so).
Watering - Spray by hand once or twice per day for a few minutes.
Fecal Description - Droppings look normal although as he has stopped eating recently he has not left many to check. Has not been tested for parasites.
History - Had no problems with him up until this past week.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Glass front, solid sides with vents, mesh top. large enclosure.
Lighting - 1x reptisun and 1 x reptiglow 5.0. On timers/thermostat, on for 12 hours per day.
Temperature - This could be where the problem has developed as the temperature has dropped significantly in the UK this week, prompting me to bring out the additional ceramic heater and heat cable for additional nighttime heating. Cage floor 60's F, basking spot 80-90F Lowest overnight temp was 53F at which time I started using the ceramic heater and heat cables to provide additional warmth. Temps measured with a thermometer, hygrometer with 2 sensors positioned under basking spot and lower down in the enclosure. The house is not well insulated so feels fairly cold at the moment. I will endeavor to keep his room warm by leaving a heater on.
Humidity - Humidity currently around 60, hand spray and live plants in soil.
Plants - yes, currently Ficus benjamina.
Placement - Under window in low traffic area of house, top of enclosure about 5ft off the ground.
Location - Southern England

Current Problem - I was away on holiday for 2 weeks and when I picked him up he seemed fine. Since I brought him home however he has stopped eating, has an odd yellow patch on his flank and under the spines, and his spines feel soft and some seem to be flaking away slightly.

 

[mcbdz]

Sorry your having to worry so much about your guy. I am unsure of what this could be either. The only suggestion I could think to give would be to take him to the vet. Make sure they have experience with chameleons. Only other option would be first maybe PM Dr. O or ferretinmyshoes and see if they can give you any advice. They are forum members that are vets. Good luck and hope you get to the bottom of this soon.

 

[carol5208]

I have seen fungual infections on here that have deteriorated the spikes. Not saying that is what I think it is, but could be a possibility. Hopefully one of our vets will chime in. We have two here on the forum and are lucky to have them!!!

 

[Rodderz]

I was thinking it might be some sort of infection, I will search through the forums for more info on health problems experienced by other members chams.

Thanks for providing the usernames of the forum vets, very helpful. I have sent pm's to them to see if they can shed any further light on the situation.

Thanks to all who have responded to this thread, its very much appreciated.

 

[Rodderz]

Although having eaten a dubia and a morio earlier he still looks unwell. He hasn't moved from his branch for hours. He is sort of lying on it rather than gripping with his feet as normal.

The temp/humidity in his enclosure is spot on now so hopefully this may make him feel better and help him digest the food he had earlier.

 

[DavidBuchan]

I would have replied earlier but I can't really see anything wrong. It looks like a normal patch of new colour to me. Chams sometimes don't eat for a bit.
While you were away was he at home? Or did you send him away and then bring him back? Maybe he's just a bit pissed off with his 'holiday' and he'll get over it.
Otherwise you will need a vet for this one I think.

 

[Dr O]

sad to say, but particularly with the progression to his spines, I do believe it to be a thermal burn, which also obviously ties into the ceramic heater coming out.

regarding the color, spines, dryness.......it was just covered in a thread not two weeks ago that will answer your questions and many more. give this a look and then reply back on here to keep your thread going.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/burn-marks-my-chameleon-93083/

the only thing missing so far is the exudate, which IME takes about 5 days post-burn to start. certainly if you start seeing any of that, let us know. otherwise I would start applying some of the mentioned meds, some of which are OTC, but I believe he probably will need systemic if the side patch dries and sloughs. that region is much, much thinner than the spine tissues, and would basically expose thoracic muscle and ribs. if it got really bad (taking a big leap here), that area would need to be repeatdly bandaged until it healed back over.

I wrote lots without knowing for sure, but I've seen this pattern so many times in chams that that's where my cards are. there's nothing fungal or bacterial at this point to make me believe those are the issues.

dr o—

 

[Rodderz]

Thanks so much for your reply Dr O.

mmm thats given me some food for thought. Unfortunately the observed yellowing and odd behavior began a few days before i got the ceramic heater out. He had a couple of cold nights in there after being moved back home (after his holiday). Also the yellow patch on his flank/under spines doesn't really look waxy (yet) as in the image on the other thread.

I just cant understand how he would have got burned, his basking lamp is suspended well above the enclosure with mesh in between, the mesh doesn't even get hot when the bulb is on full glow. This is true for the enclosure he is in now as well as the one he was in while I was away on holiday. I guess if it is a burn he must have been burned somehow while I was on holiday.

I will monitor the progression of the yellow patch and report back. Off to the vets tomorrow so will post the outcome of that visit also.

Thanks again for sharing your expertise

 

[Rodderz]

I should also have mentioned that the yellow patch grew in size over the course of a few days when I first picked him up from his holiday home.

 

[Dr O]

I've got my fingers crossed for you, but whatever it turns out to be, a vet needs to see it. good luck and keep us posted with additional changes and photos. the spreading and raised look that it has are typical for early burns too, btw.

I also wanted to mention that the bright yellow is something I have only seen in panther, veiled, and jackson's that I have seen in practice. I was never presented with any other species of cham with a burn, and other reptiles go about it a completely different way. as usual, chams doing their own thing......

 

[Rodderz]

yeh they certainly like doing their own thing alright.

While I respect your professional opinion and am very grateful to you for sharing your expertise I am still going through all the possibilities. Im looking at it as an opportunity to increase my knowledge of chameleon health.

I have just found out that the person who looked after him while I was on holiday has just had to treat his rabbits for pin worm. Any chance this could be parasite related?

I will check his fecal tomorrow for any parasites when I go to the vet.

Thanks again for your help

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

I agree with Dr O - thermal burn wild be high on my list just looking at the pictures, especially since the spines are affected since that is a classic area for burns. And when my chams bask, especially when they're cold in the morning by leaning to one side like little solar panels, the bulk of the beam hits them right where that yellow patch is. A burn can happen from several inches away despite mesh in between and never touching it. It depends on how long they stay in that spot and how strong the heat from the light is. Even my cham got burned like that on his spines. That being said, there is still a possibility it is something other than a burn because pictures can only show so much. An in-person exam may reveal qualities that can't be seen in pictures so I think it's a great idea to go to the vet. Good job.

Parasites would be highly unlikely to cause these symptoms, and pinworms are species-specific so your cham wouldn't get them from the rabbit.

Good luck at the vet and let us know what they say!

 

[Rodderz]

Dr O and ferretinmyshoes I just want to say thanks so much for all your advice and help diagnosing whats wrong. He has actually perked right up again now after having eaten a couple of morio worms, a dubia, and a locust these past couple of days. I am no longer so worried about him as he is moving around and behaving normally again.

Upon reflection and taking in to consideration your expert advice I agree that a burn is most likely. When the temperature dropped while I was on holiday (which has continued upon my return) this probably affected the ambient temperature throughout his enclosure, causing him to spend long periods right up against the mesh roof of his enclosure under his basking spot lamp. While it doesn't get too hot up there (I never thought he could burn himself there) I guess over a prolonged period it could have caused a burn. Compared to some burns I have seen online I dont think his is too bad. That said I will be sure to treat it as advised on this forum.

The vet wasn't too helpful to be honest, I dont think he knew much about chams. He agreed with your diagnosis, although I got the impression he would have agreed with pretty much anything I suggested as he didnt seem to know much about treating chameleons. The practice do have a reptile expert but she is away on holiday at the moment. I will take him in to see her when she gets back. I live on a very small island off the north of France so not much in the way of choice in terms of vets, and not many people keep reptiles here. In the mean time I will monitor the spine/yellow spot and see how the healing process progresses.

In order to deal with the lower temperatures experienced here I have now put a small floor standing heater near his enclosure to keep the ambient temperature at optimum levels, and I have swapped his spot lamp for a lower wattage bulb (which in combination with the floor standing heater still provides optimum basking spot temps).

I think these changes have dont the trick, he seems a lot happier. He is just starting to shed as well so it will be interesting to see what happens to the yellow spot and area around his spine post shed.

Thanks again for all your help guys, These forums really are wonderful.

I will continue to post pics and info to fully document the healing process as it may be useful to other cham owners in the future.