Panther Eye closed since delivery :(

[taylorcoleman]

Pursuant to the thread that got moved for some reason to photos:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/new-first-cham-ambanja-100657/

Our first chameleon has had his left eye closed since he arrived to our home. I've read quite a bit about this condition which ranges from shedding, to something stuck in his eye, to infection, and the list goes on.

Since he's so new to us I don't want to stress him by putting him in the shower. We did try to gently spray his eye with a mister, which did not work. The eye also appears sunken into his skull.

He will open the eye, but rarely. When he does I don't see anything that appears to be an infection, but I don't see the nice orange iris like I do in his right eye.

He's eating, drinking and walking about very well, so otherwise he appears to be in good health.

If he's not opening his eye within another week or so I might need to send him back I hope he gets better because we've grown very fond of him, but for an expensive chameleon, I didn't expect this concern from the first day of arrival.

 

[p1u5h13r4m24]

I'm intrested in the responses for us I have a panther who has been that way for a year now a female scratched his eye though

 

[Vmag86]

Chams eyes are VERY delicate, its quite possible it was damaged do to poor handeling while in route to your house. I would call the breeder and make him aware of the problem. If his eye does not get better in a few days, I hate to say it, but you should send he/She back. A dAmaged eye can shorten a chams lifespan and will be prone to problems in the future. Sorry bud

 

[ChamMan7]

I hate to do it to you, but we could get a better idea of how you are keeping him if you fill this out https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/

It could be a stuck shed, however i doubt they would send an animal that is having an issue with a stuck shed. It is most likely an injury from shipping, but if you fill out the form we may be able to help you find something else out.

 

[taylorcoleman]

Here is a pic, note of course left eye closed and what appears to be sunken in.

Here are some of the details per that form (but perhaps only a few are relevant given I just got him Friday...and the eye was closed when I took him out of the box he arrived in:

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

Panther, Ambanja, Male, 6 months old, in my care since just last Friday. Arrived early morning delivery via FedEx.

Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? Not at all, he's too new.

Current Problem - The left eye remains closed perhaps 90% of the time. The left eye appears to be sunken in, but perhaps that's just part of the anatomy of keeping his eye closed.

 

[ChamMan7]

That really is not much info to go on. It is most likely bruised from being bumped around while being shipped. Keep offering him lots of water and food if he is eating. I think a stuck shed is fairly unlikely with this guy. Give it another day or two and update us. If it is just slightly bruised from shipping I am sure he will be ok.

 

[Reflexdnb]

ChamMan7 is right. I had the same issue with a veiled last month. Misted him a bunch and a few days later he was fine

 

[taylorcoleman]

Many thanks for the feedback.

If there's other info that can help kindly let me know.

Meanwhile I'll mist the eye and give it a few more days before I try the shower or even take him thru stress of vet visit. He hates being misted though, and I was hoping not to make a bad first impression with him.

As I said, I know I can just ship him back for a refund or exchange but he's already grown on us and I'd hate to put him through being boxed and shipped again

 

[Cainschams]

Many thanks for the feedback.

If there's other info that can help kindly let me know.

Meanwhile I'll mist the eye and give it a few more days before I try the shower or even take him thru stress of vet visit. He hates being misted though, and I was hoping not to make a bad first impression with him.

As I said, I know I can just ship him back for a refund or exchange but he's already grown on us and I'd hate to put him through being boxed and shipped again

Do not mist his eye directly. A good way to simulate rain in the enclosure is to mist the top letting the water collect on the screen. After a half minute or so the drops will get bigger and simulate rain. This might not freak him out as much.

To clean an eye you can use a bottle of saline solution. Do not stick the tip into the eye itself. Get close to it and shoot a jet inside filling it up and letting it flush out.

Vit A issues can also cause problems with the eyes.

His mouth in the front looks a little beat up also. It could have came from the shipping process or if the animals was kept with others it could have came from interaction.

 

[taylorcoleman]

Eye pics updated

So I finally decided the stress of a shower (indirect water) might overcome the potential benefits of helping him clear his eye. I gently lifted him from his habitat with his stick (for the first time he's been out of his cage since arriving last week) and he promptly climbed up my arm.

I tried to coax him back onto the stick but he refused, and he started climbing up to my shoulder. I gently put my other hand underneath him and he climbed back and forth from hand to hand. He didn't appear upset and mostly just appeared curious.

So in the shower he went with some water indirectly spraying him and within a couple of minutes he opened his left eye. After about 15 minutes I stopped the shower and tried to put him back into his cage, but he refused. So, I just let him crawl around on me for a while (which was a nice benefit perhaps to us both).

So I took the opportunity to take closer pics of his eye (below). Unfortunately it appears that his eye is damaged (I presume in shipping) as the pupil does not always align in the center of his "eyelids". The first pic is when it's at its worst, the second when the pupil is a bit more centered and the third his normal eye.

 

[taylorcoleman]

Thank you for moving to "clinic" where this now belongs

I think I should take him to the vet

 

[squeekz1992]

I agree about the vet. I'm sorry your having trouble so soon he looks a little roughed up, but he's definitely a cutie.

 

[p1u5h13r4m24]

I put my money on a scratch but I'm sure te vet will give you some eye drops

 

[taylorcoleman]

Would anyone recommend me shipping him back to Screameleons for them to rehab him and then to have him shipped back when he's better?

The alternative is of course a trip to a local, reputable herp vet.

 

[p1u5h13r4m24]

Ya that would be atleast 100 and it might not even fix the problems. I'd ask for another one he is pretty good with that kind of stuff

 

[taylorcoleman]

Not happy with Screameleons

I'm going to take him to the vet. I'm told the warranty (guarantee) will be voided by Screameleons if I don't ship him back to them:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/not-happy-screameleons-will-void-guarantee-warranty-101072/

I'm not happy with Screameleons.

 

[Screameleons]

Please send the chameleon back.

To the op, we have pleaded that you send the chameleon back to us for a full refund. We have also offered to pay the return shipping, which no other breeder offers. We have sent you numerous emails to send the chameleon back to us and we are baffled as to why you are refusing.

And to clarify, we stated that your warranty will be voided if you bring him to a vet and begin medicating him with prescription drugs. We explained this is an eye irritation most likely caused by shipping. I do not recommend taking him to a vet for shotgun antibiotic treatments. In addition, I know most new owners will cause more harm than good with syringes as they can be both painful and stressful to the chameleon.

I have sent you at least 3 emails pleading that you send the chameleon back to us. I have also sent you a return FEDEX label on January 15th. We explained that waiting is only going to prolong the problem.

I am posting on the forum in hopes that others can convince the op to please return the chameleon back to us for a full refund. We have also given him the option to take the chameleon back after we treat the eye.

Please understand that we are better equipped to get the chameleon better than most, and this includes the ops local vet. Please send the chameleon back to us instead of trying to fix this yourself. You are more than welcome to pick something else out if you don't want a full refund.

We are insisting you send the chameleon back for a refund. We do not understand why you are refusing. As you've already read in previous posts, others have also recommended you send him back. We are paying the shipping so you have nothing to lose.

 

[Mmcbain1]

I think part of the hobby is accepting that when you purchase a cham you assume the responsibility. I think screamealeons is being very generous with their offer, but I would personally just accept your cham as he is and take him to a vet. You know screameleons would not ship out a cham with a bum eye. This stuff happens it is part of the hobby.

 

[taylorcoleman]

To Screameleons:

Thank you for breeding such a beautiful Ambanja. Thank you for caring so much for these beautiful creatures. Thank you for offering to pay to ship him back and forth for rehabilitation. Thank you for being so responsive via email during this very stressful time for the chameleon and our family (specifically my 7-yo son who loves loves this little guy terribly).

However, it is in our best judgement that the stress and potential further damage to his good (and or bad eye) of shipping him exceeds the risk of taking him to a licensed medical professional, specializing in herpetological specimens. Therefore I made an appointment for him to see such a vet tomorrow (Thursday) at 6:20pm. I'm willing to share the vet's recommendation before any treatment might begin for you to comment and provide a counter recommendation if warranted.

That a licensed vet would treat our chameleon and that would cause my 30-day guarantee from Screameleons to be void is in my opinion not acceptable.

We love this little guy and were so very upset and concerned that his eye was damaged in shipping (for his sake). My son has been crying and worried sick about him and he cannot wait to bring him to the doctor. Try explaining to your son that you're going to ship his baby back in the very box that hurt him in the first place - and him not knowing whether he'd ever return, healthy or otherwise.

I don't doubt that you too have the chameleon's best interest in mind. But I think it's arrogant, reckless, and single minded that you're only considering shipping him back for rehab is the only prudent thing to do here. On top of that, revoking the guarantee just further reinforces my feelings about this.

I'm sorry you are worried about him, and that our decision to take him to the vet concerns you. But again, I am willing to share any treatment recommendation from the vet with you first so that you can comment whether it might be more harm than good.

 

[Carlton]

To Screameleons:


That a licensed vet would treat our chameleon and that would cause my 30-day guarantee from Screameleons to be void is in my opinion not acceptable.

I don't doubt that you too have the chameleon's best interest in mind. But I think it's arrogant, reckless, and single minded that you're only considering shipping him back for rehab is the only prudent thing to do here. On top of that, revoking the guarantee just further reinforces my feelings about this.

IMHO I don't think Screameleons is being arrogant or reckless in their TOS terms here. They are basing this decision on their experience with many chameleons of their own breeding and probably so they can consult their own trusted vet. Right now they don't know the expertise of your chosen vet at all. Many vets claim to have herp expertise but even that isn't going to necessarily help a sick chameleon. A cham's eyes are unique in the world and sadly this forum hears its share of "qualified vet" horror stories. Basically, having your cham treated by someone outside their circle of expertise introduces a pretty big unknown to their ability to honor their TOS or any future obligation that might crop up over paying vet fees or treatment costs. I can't blame them for being cautious. A mistake in meds or procedures could happen and then who's liable? Screameleons? You? The vet practice? How can Screameleons continue to guarrantee an animal's health if it isn't in the same condition (assuming it didn't have an eye problem before shipping) it was when it was under their control?

Everyone here is concerned for the cham's best interest. No one wants to subject him to more stress or discomfort whether its additional shipping, treatment, etc. Of course you are upset and worried. If you care to hear it, I think Screameleons is trying to protect themselves, keep unknown risks from creeping into the situation, and attempting to help your cham in the way they feel they know best. Guarrantees have got to be realistically limited and specific in order to protect both parties or avoid misunderstandings when things get emotional.

So, make your decision using the best information possible. If you choose to have your cham treated fine. Your cham isn't going to be in the exact known condition it was when it left Screameleons' hands. He may be just fine. Even if he loses the sight in one eye he can learn to compensate and have a sheltered comfortable captive life. If you choose to take Screameleons' offer that's quite reasonable too. They can watch him, treat him, or give you the option to take him back or select another if the eye thing turns out to be a worrisome long term problem. I think consulting with Screameleons before treating is a fine idea. See if your vet will consult with Screameleons directly or with Screameleons' own vet. That might help solve part of the worry. BTW, what shipping distance are we talking about? Any chance someone could take him back in person instead?

For what its worth, this is my opinion. Maybe the following is overkill, and it does not touch the whole idea of a living creature. Just think about the TOS/guarrantee issue in a different situation:

You purchase a piece of sculpture through mail order.
The seller guarrantees the sculpture and the TOS says to return it if damaged or not satisfied.
It arrives chipped.
You decide to get it repaired by an art gallery nearby.
The chip repair doesn't hold or is noticeable.
You want to return it for a refund/exchange.

How can the seller guarrantee the sculpture once it was altered by someone else with materials or a procedure unknown to them?