panther chameleon not eating

[cmudragon]

I have a mature female panther chameleon that has stopped eating. She is drinking water; however, it's going on day 5 that I have not seen her eat and I'm really concerned.

She is in a 18x18x36 screened cage and has a heat lamp, UVB bulb, humidifier, dripper, plants, no substrate, plently to climb on and hide, the temperature in the room is between 75 and 80. I spray the leaves down 3-4 times a day.

I've tried crickets, roaches, meal worms and nothing works.

When I got her (a little over a week now) I was told she was gravid, or at least showing gravid colors but they couldn't tell me how far along she was. I've offered a lay box/bucket and she's not interested.

She's moving around, and still has good grip, but not eating....any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[pssh]

A lot of the time they stop eating before they lay. Just keep the box in there and don't bother her too much. If she's gravid she'll layy when she needs to unless conditions are unsatisfactory

 

[cmudragon]

Still no eating, but she did have some droppings...they were white and orange.

I put the lay box back in her cage. I am going to cover the sides so that if I walk in the room she doesn't see me. I've read that if she was to see me she would stop. Should I keep the lay box in her cage or should I temporarily move her to a different "home" altogether that is basically one large lay box?

 

[pssh]

As long as the laying box is big enough, she should be fine. However, orange urates mean that she is pretty dehydtrated. They should be almost competely white with maybe a tiny bit of yellow or orange at the tip. Give her a nice long warm misting and leave her alone to do her stuff.

 

[cmudragon]

still no eating. I gave her a warm shower and saw her drinking, but she's starting to sleep with the light on. No sign of getting in or around the lay box. I have the sides of her cage covered so that she cannot see me checking on her. I've been leaving her alone except to water her. Is there anything else I can do?

 

[PardalisGirl]

Questions....

Could we please get a couple of pictures? Also, what is your supplimentation schedule and what do you gutload your feeders with? I agree with Pssh about the orange urates. You need to make sure she is actually drinking each day.

 

[cmudragon]

I haven't had her very long. I got her and a male on Sunday (1/10) from a reptile show. When I brought them home I didn't feed them that night because they had been feed at the show. The next day she had crickets dusted with Calcium powder, the next day without. After that I have not seen her eat anything. The crickets have been gutloaded with everything from carrots, potatoes, to greens. As I said, I've offered roaches (dubia) and mealworms just to see if it was the fact that she was "bored" with the crickets and no luck. I do see her drink almost everytime I spray the leaves down (4 times a day) and today I actually saw her drink from the dripper.

 

[cmudragon]

I haven't heard back from anyone regarding how she looks, I've included more pictures I just took. She keeps getting worse. I see her drink every time I spray but will still not eat. Her eyes seem like they are sinking and I've noticed a spot on her mouth which I took a close up picture of. I've left a message with an exotic pet vet to see if they will see her but I have not heard back from them yet. Is there anything I can do? Can I give her a pedialite/water mixture? Any ideas what that spot is on her mouth? Is it a sore? Is that why she won't eat? Should I put anything on it? Please, any suggestions?

 

[draetish]

I haven't heard back from anyone regarding how she looks, I've included more pictures I just took. She keeps getting worse. I see her drink every time I spray but will still not eat. Her eyes seem like they are sinking and I've noticed a spot on her mouth which I took a close up picture of. I've left a message with an exotic pet vet to see if they will see her but I have not heard back from them yet. Is there anything I can do? Can I give her a pedialite/water mixture? Any ideas what that spot is on her mouth? Is it a sore? Is that why she won't eat? Should I put anything on it? Please, any suggestions?

Your girl does look ill and I would say yes to pedilyte as an immediate solution until you can figure it out. Can you open her mouth to see if there are any signs of swelling, mucous, spots, anything weird? Did she look like that when you bought her?

 

[PardalisGirl]

Need vet ASAP

Hi there...I'm subscribed to this thread but for some reason I'm not getting notifications from the forum when new responses on any of the threads I'm subscribed to are posted. Your girl is in the downward spiral. I don't think you can get her out of it without the help of a good reptile vet. She could be gravid but she doesn't scream out gravid to me. The condition of her body shows that her system is shutting down. The cause at this time is not something we can really know without a vet's help. She could have a parasite or systemic bacteria infection that has overwhelmed her after the shock of a new home. She could have been gravid and is now eggbound. The stuff on the side of her mouth is either dried bug juice or dried mucus. I think this female is started on the death spiral path. I'm an experienced keeper and I would be getting her into my vet. I would give her supportive fluids and make sure her temperature is around 78 to 80 until I got her to the vet. Sick chameleons, especially ones with infections need to be kept on the warm side to boost the immune system. Sorry for not responding sooner

 

[cmudragon]

Unfortunately I just got back to work so I won't be able to check on the inside of her mouth until around 6:30, but I will do so and responsd as soon as I can.

As for what she looked like when I got her...she was dark with orange/peachy spots and probably very stressed being at the reptile show. My boyfriend is a bearded dragon breader and knows that I've really wanted a panther for a while so he traded baby beardies for the pair of WC panthers. There were a few people there that have breed panthers in the past and they said that they looked good, but based on the travel schedule of the person that brought them I should make sure to get them home and give them fluids. I picked up some "smart water" thinking that the electrolytes would do them good. So long story short, no, she looked better when I got her. I was also told that they were both given worm medicine too and that they were fine, but that I could give them another dose in a few weeks just to be sure.

He did have them perched in the same area at the show and she was not happy about that. She kept opening her mouth towards him (I was told she was pissy). I moved her farther away from him and she stopped doing that and hasn't since.

The male is still doing great, drinking and a very healthy eater...and they are in separate cages and cannot see each other.

 

[PardalisGirl]

Got the picture....

I guess I missed out on the WC situation. That makes things pretty clear. She probably is gravid though she may not be very far along. The gaping when she sees the male isn't being pissy. It's being gravid.

Next thing......you need to get a fecal to the vet for testing. The seller gave her Panacur which only kills the worm parasites. People who sell WC reptiles often treat the animal with Panacur as a precaution and because it's sold over the counter. Very easy to do. They almost never test for parasites and then treat other forms of parasites (and there are a LOT of them) that are not killed by Panacur. Metronidazole gets rid of Protozoans. You can only get it through a vet. Albon or generic Sulfa is sold over the counter. It treats things like Coccidia.

Most WC panthers have some sort of parasite. They sometimes have Salmonella too. That's a whole other topic and it requires a special culture test. People rarely test for it because the test costs about $80 and most people don't know how common it is in chameleons. Many chameleons live healthy lives with a small load of Salmonella that only causes a problem if the chameleon develops some other health issue. Then the Salmonella balloons out of control. It can also be spread to other pets and people.

Parasite loads are somewhat similar. WC chameleons carry some sort of small load. They don't keep infecting themselves because they roam around a lot in nature. They constantly poop out the eggs or ocysts which infects some other reptile later on. They have a balance between pooping out and ingesting new parasites in. In a cage a chameleon is trapped with any eggs or ocysts that have been shed in the cage. They may start to ingest more than they poop out. The load expands over time. A change in health also causes the parasite load to explode. Anything that reduces the immune system helps the parasite increase it's population. I'm giving you a lot of information to digest. I like to explain why things happen rather than just state "get a fecal".

Your female probably did look healthy. But the stress of a new home and being gravid has caused her immune system to be compromised. This has allowed something to overwhelm her. It could be a parasite not killed by Panacur or a systemic bacterial infection. Get her to a vet. I would also get a fecal from your male tested. Just because he still looks healthy does not mean he doesn't have other parasites.

 

[cmudragon]

I made an appointment for the vet tonight so hopefully she can be saved and it is something cureable. She (and the male) are in the same room as the bearded dragons (higher and blocked from her view). Is this something that can spread without direct contact? Should I remove them from this room. The rest of our house is rather cold, at times 65, which is why i put them in with the other animals because that room is heated to 75-80.

Thank you very much for the information overload! I like to know why things are happening too!

 

[PardalisGirl]

Fine where they are....

They can stay in the same room. Just always wash your hands every time you touch them or their cage. Keep hand sanitizer or disinfecting wipes close by to make it easier. Do you have any fresh fecals? If you do or if they drop any urate or poop between now and when you go to the vet put it into a ziplock baggy. One for each sample. Keep it in the fridge (icky but necessary) til you go to the vet. Good luck and update us tonight after the vet visit.

 

[cmudragon]

Whew, that's a relief...I wouldn't know what to do if they infected his dragons and pythons! He's drilled it into my head the importance of washing my hands after handling anything they have in their cage, so I'm doing one thing right

Thank you for all your comments and I will update when I get home tonight.

 

[cmudragon]

Bad news...the vet had to reschedule for tomorrow at 7:30am so I have another night of not knowing what's wrong. I don't want to mess with her mouth to see if it's swollen becuase I'm sure that the vet visit in the am will be very stressfull on her and I don't want to add to it. I am just going to continue her misting schedule (probably 2 more times tonight) and set the dripper to run for a few hours and hope for the best.

If there is anything else I should do in the meantime please let me know. I will update tomorrow when I get back from the vet.

thank you all again!

 

[tkilgour]

Oh my I feel so sorry for you and your cham. Your pics certainly show a chameleon on the downward spiral. Tell us what the vet. says and does, It will be very interesting to know. I hope she makes it for you, it is really sad when a beloved cham. goes down.

 

[kinyonga]

Did you tell the vet its an emergency?

 

[cmudragon]

I did tell them it was an emergency; however the doctor that was there that tonight doesn't specialize in reptiles...it's the other Dr and he won't be in until Monday. Apparently the receptionist left out this information when I had originally called. They couldn't get me in until Monday, but I found another vet that would come in early tomorrow morning so that was the best I could do. I guess it's a good thing that they let me know that before I stressed her out more by bringing her in when it wouldn't do any good. It's frustrating, and I'm worried. I keep checking on her and she's awake mostly and still moving around to get to water when I spray. She took a few licks off the dripper that I saw, so hopefully she won't get too much worse in the next 12 hours

I'm making sure to keep her warm and she did have a small stool sample (which I'm not sure how when she hasn't eaten anything in a week!) but none the less, I collected it and am taking it with us tomorrow.

 

[PardalisGirl]

Emergency.......

I agree with Kinyongia's post......My vet will take an emergency if I tell him it's life or death. I may have to wait a bit when I get there but his techs will take the cham into the back and the vet will do a very quick assessment and tell his techs what to do with it until he can squeeze me in to discuss stuff. It's probably too late for today though. I'm very lucky. My vet clinic went to an open "24/7" situation. They have four vets that rotate. You pay extra for emergency situations after a certain hour but it's worth it if you have a pet in critical condition.

Forget about the mouth right now. That may just be bug goo. In any case it's not the cause of her condition. Just keep her warm and quiet until you get to the vet. Do you have a plan for transporting her?