Panther Chameleon Health Help

[R.H]

The white section in her poo is urate which is urine, and it's means she's hydrated all the time it's white. If it changed colour u need to give more fluids x

 

[WAMBO]

vet said ammonia in urine ,, other than parasite both chams was doing great

Urine has ammonia which is a normal product of the metabolism of protein.

 

[marley patches]

The white section in her poo is urate which is urine, and it's means she's hydrated all the time it's white. If it changed colour u need to give more fluids x

my male vield had white urate covering his poo ,so least I know he was getting plenty of fluids , I asked vet about it because I thought it was too much white (sometimes you couldn't see poo with the white covering it )the female panther was always good that's what had me concerned when I took them to vet for a year checkup ,, thanks for the info

 

[marley patches]

Thanks yeah i'd love more input because the "experts" I paid 300$$ to send this too all they said was that "it looked like ammonia" which I also know nothing about in chams!!

WOW 300.00 was it the x-rays that cost ,I took my 2 chams for there year check up and it was 120.00 for both

 

[LeeAnne]

Do you mean pneumonia, which is a respiratory problem? Also, can you post a picture of her mouth?

yes thats what i meant sorry. I will post picture when i get home today i may start a new thread to get more specified answers about this topic. Thanks!!

 

[LeeAnne]

WOW 300.00 was it the x-rays that cost ,I took my 2 chams for there year check up and it was 120.00 for both

the co pay was 130 just to see the doctor and then it was 270 for the x rays, antibiotics and for the diagnostics to be sent out to the "experts"

 

[WAMBO]

yes thats what i meant sorry. I will post picture when i get home today i may start a new thread to get more specified answers about this topic. Thanks!!

The right lung has an irregular patchy infiltrate which is what pneumonia looks like.

 

[LeeAnne]

Not quite sure how to post a new thread so i will give update here.

Since I posted the original information Pizza has been doing better I think!
A correction from her previous diagnosis i meant to say she has PNEUMONIA, my mistake.

I have been keeping her outside all day and night for the past 4 days. The humidity has been between 50-80 % in the daytime and temps at 70-85 and nighttime at 20-40% humidity and 55-65 degrees at night. I've fed her about 20 gut loaded crickets with new added apples and celery leaves and 2 wax worms.
I have attached some photos of close ups of her mouth. Is this part of her pneumonia? Also in a few of the photos you can see it's almost as if she is laying on my arm is this normal? you can certainly see neck swelling in the photo of her in the tree.
Anyone have or know of a cham that had this?
All i have left are 2 doses of her antibiotics not sure what to do after they are over if she isn't back to normal!!

any and all help is greatly appreciated

 

[Andee]

Her mouth like it got injured and is now healing. Does she have any inflammation or like a cheesy yellow stuff on her gums in that area? The swelling on her neck is quit concerning... is it only on the side? Or is it more in the throat area? She looks like she is technically doing better, good thing the weather is good, the natural sun sill help. But she still looks really weak.

Edit: I just looked at her xrays a little more closely because she has the look of a cham that usually has mbd. However her bones look fine and the density is nothing to worry about, I think the pneumonia may be what's causing her weakness, and the strain of being sick and carrying developing eggs at the same time. So I would continue to keep her outside for as long as the weather will permit. It will do wonders for her and the development of the eggs. It will cause a lot less strain on her body if she can absorb natural uvb for a good while during the development it will make things incredibly smoother with the laying process I am sure.

 

[LeeAnne]

Her mouth like it got injured and is now healing. Does she have any inflammation or like a cheesy yellow stuff on her gums in that area? The swelling on her neck is quit concerning... is it only on the side? Or is it more in the throat area? She looks like she is technically doing better, good thing the weather is good, the natural sun sill help. But she still looks really weak.

Edit: I just looked at her xrays a little more closely because she has the look of a cham that usually has mbd. However her bones look fine and the density is nothing to worry about, I think the pneumonia may be what's causing her weakness, and the strain of being sick and carrying developing eggs at the same time. So I would continue to keep her outside for as long as the weather will permit. It will do wonders for her and the development of the eggs. It will cause a lot less strain on her body if she can absorb natural uvb for a good while during the development it will make things incredibly smoother with the laying process I am sure.

Thank you for your reply! Hmm it does look yellow sometimes but nothing ever comes off, I posted a close up in my last post of her today so thats what it currently looks like. Yes her throat is concerning me too it looks like the throat area that is swollen she rests it on her branches alot. Yes I'm keeping her outside as much as I can I think I may add her ceramic heat lamp at night though to keep her temps up to hopefully fight this off before she has to lay!

 

[Andee]

Oh also if you have the ability to order some silkworms or hornworms to feed her during the process it would help tremendously as well. It will keep her much more hydrated, which will be good for her pneumonia, considering you wouldn't need mist as much in order to do it and the humidity wouldn't be nearly as increased. The problem with chameleons having pneumonia is they need to be heavily misted to drink, panthers don't actually need that high of humidity to be healthy and happy. Which if the humidity is too high regularly it will cause the fungal infection in her lungs to get much worse. So with hornworms or silkworms as a regular part of her diet it would easier to keep her drier safely which would cause her pneumonia to get better faster.

Edit: if nothing comes off then it likely is just an injury... the swelling of her throat sounds like over supplementation which is caused by too much d3... how often are you dusting with d3 again?

 

[LeeAnne]

Oh also if you have the ability to order some silkworms or hornworms to feed her during the process it would help tremendously as well. It will keep her much more hydrated, which will be good for her pneumonia, considering you wouldn't need mist as much in order to do it and the humidity wouldn't be nearly as increased. The problem with chameleons having pneumonia is they need to be heavily misted to drink, panthers don't actually need that high of humidity to be healthy and happy. Which if the humidity is too high regularly it will cause the fungal infection in her lungs to get much worse. So with hornworms or silkworms as a regular part of her diet it would easier to keep her drier safely which would cause her pneumonia to get better faster.

Edit: if nothing comes off then it likely is just an injury... the swelling of her throat sounds like over supplementation which is caused by too much d3... how often are you dusting with d3 again?

I just ordered her some hornworms a few days ago! And okay good to know right now she is between 30-70% humidity mostly b/w 50-60. I just gave her a nice shower and she drank alot I gave her some liquid calcium as well. I just gave her a cricket batch with a multi vitiman dusting 2 days ago its called cricket dust Herbcare makes it. I actually haven't given her the d3 dust I have for a while now because I used to use it all the time (before I knew what I was doing) What is a humidity that is to high? I don't want her to get worse
Again thank you so much for your help!

 

[WAMBO]

Her mouth like it got injured and is now healing. Does she have any inflammation or like a cheesy yellow stuff on her gums in that area? The swelling on her neck is quit concerning... is it only on the side? Or is it more in the throat area? She looks like she is technically doing better, good thing the weather is good, the natural sun sill help. But she still looks really weak.

Edit: I just looked at her xrays a little more closely because she has the look of a cham that usually has mbd. However her bones look fine and the density is nothing to worry about, I think the pneumonia may be what's causing her weakness, and the strain of being sick and carrying developing eggs at the same time. So I would continue to keep her outside for as long as the weather will permit. It will do wonders for her and the development of the eggs. It will cause a lot less strain on her body if she can absorb natural uvb for a good while during the development it will make things incredibly smoother with the laying process I am sure.

The density of the bones can be made to look dense or lucent in digital imaging by adjusting the gray scale. Also, the bone density can look dense when images are underpenetrated [too much kv or mas] and lucent like MBD when overpenetrated, on digital imaging or film x-rays. The hallmark of osteomalacia or MBD should be judged upon the presence of fractures and deformities [abnormal bend, contour, callus or periosteal reaction from healing or insuffiency fracture, etc...] from weak bones. So we need to be very careful on judging bone density be x-ray imaging. In mammals, bone density machines are a specialty machine that determines the bone mineral content, and must be tested daily and calibrated at least weekly. In small animals, one technique will not be adequate for all sizes and shapes, but is generally used as 'one size fits most'.

 

[Andee]

Her legs don't look like they have any breaks, so that's why I was hoping the xray would show something. How is general climbing skills? I would keep showering her until the gulag edema goes down. Though showers aren't great for pneumonia, gulag edema can also be a sign of continuous dehydration. If it's a vitamin over supplementation problem the extra water will help flush it more easily from her system. I would shower her every day for at least a week, or until the gulag edema goes down if it goes down before. It should help a lot. The pneumonia can always be managed with antibiotics in the meantime, though it's not ideal. Gular edema is a sign that her kidneys are working hard and could be in some form of failure, though usually if you catch it early it can be reversed.

To answer your question about humidity, I wouldn't let it reach above 60% if you can help it. Since you'll be showering her regularly I wouldn't worry about her getting dehydrated from lack of long mistings. The regular misting during the shower week shouldn't exceed a minute long in my opinion, and should only happen 2-3 times a day, though that also depends on the Temps and what the general surrounding humidity measures at, so keep aware and be ready to balance things out.

The showers should last for at least 15-20 minutes each time, possibly a little longer. She should get plenty of water during that time line. I hope this helps >.<

Edit: replace all the Gulag words with gular my phone apparently doesn't like that word lol

 

[LeeAnne]

The density of the bones can be made to look dense or lucent in digital imaging by adjusting the gray scale. Also, the bone density can look dense when images are underpenetrated [too much kv or mas] and lucent like MBD when overpenetrated, on digital imaging or film x-rays. The hallmark of osteomalacia or MBD should be judged upon the presence of fractures and deformities [abnormal bend, contour, callus or periosteal reaction from healing or insuffiency fracture, etc...] from weak bones. So we need to be very careful on judging bone density be x-ray imaging. In mammals, bone density machines are a specialty machine that determines the bone mineral content, and must be tested daily and calibrated at least weekly. In small animals, one technique will not be adequate for all sizes and shapes, but is generally used as 'one size fits most'.

Interesting! good to know thank you, I must say though Pizza seems to have strong bones she can climb quiet efficiently still! Unless you see something abnormal in the pics of her that i am just missing! I am going to give liquid calcium to her a couple times this week. Any other tips on the best way to measure bone density?

 

[LeeAnne]

Her legs don't look like they have any breaks, so that's why I was hoping the xray would show something. How is general climbing skills? I would keep showering her until the gulag edema goes down. Though showers aren't great for pneumonia, gulag edema can also be a sign of continuous dehydration. If it's a vitamin over supplementation problem the extra water will help flush it more easily from her system. I would shower her every day for at least a week, or until the gulag edema goes down if it goes down before. It should help a lot. The pneumonia can always be managed with antibiotics in the meantime, though it's not ideal. Gular edema is a sign that her kidneys are working hard and could be in some form of failure, though usually if you catch it early it can be reversed.

To answer your question about humidity, I wouldn't let it reach above 60% if you can help it. Since you'll be showering her regularly I wouldn't worry about her getting dehydrated from lack of long mistings. The regular misting during the shower week shouldn't exceed a minute long in my opinion, and should only happen 2-3 times a day, though that also depends on the Temps and what the general surrounding humidity measures at, so keep aware and be ready to balance things out.

The showers should last for at least 15-20 minutes each time, possibly a little longer. She should get plenty of water during that time line. I hope this helps >.<

Edit: replace all the Gulag words with gular my phone apparently doesn't like that word lol

Okay I can do that! gular edema you say thats the cause of her throat swelling? I have never heard of that thank you so much

 

[Andee]

Yes gular edema, it can happy more often to females who are gravid though I don't know why that is honestly. Liquid calcium is your best bet for bone density but be careful with it. Make sure you don't give more than the maintaince amount and do you know if it has any added vitamins in it? It's just the calcium right? Most vets don't add vitamins when they prescribe it from what I know. I am not even sure if they could. But just want to make sure. There are some posts on here about gular edema and there is a website I read up on it on. However I have the most experience with gular edema that's caused by dehydration. My Jackson's used to get it a lot when I was still adjusting my mistings to accommodate her. She came to me severely dehydrated among other things. So I spent a week or so just showering her for 30 minutes every day. I then learned she needed at least 4 mistings a day for at least 4 minutes. She can't drink her fill otherwise. During the drier months I add two shorter mistings in between. But during the time I was learning she got I think 3 minor gular edema episodes. Luckily I was able to catch them and reverse them with a couple long showers.

 

[LeeAnne]

Yes gular edema, it can happy more often to females who are gravid though I don't know why that is honestly. Liquid calcium is your best bet for bone density but be careful with it. Make sure you don't give more than the maintaince amount and do you know if it has any added vitamins in it? It's just the calcium right? Most vets don't add vitamins when they prescribe it from what I know. I am not even sure if they could. But just want to make sure. There are some posts on here about gular edema and there is a website I read up on it on. However I have the most experience with gular edema that's caused by dehydration. My Jackson's used to get it a lot when I was still adjusting my mistings to accommodate her. She came to me severely dehydrated among other things. So I spent a week or so just showering her for 30 minutes every day. I then learned she needed at least 4 mistings a day for at least 4 minutes. She can't drink her fill otherwise. During the drier months I add two shorter mistings in between. But during the time I was learning she got I think 3 minor gular edema episodes. Luckily I was able to catch them and reverse them with a couple long showers.

Okay thank you and the liquid calcium I am giving her is just my calcium powder without d3 (pic in my album) mixed with some water till its a little cloudy then i'm just using a small plastic syringe to get it in her mouth when she drinks in the shower! How long did it take your chams to get back to normal?

 

[Andee]

Since it usually was dehydration related it took 2-3 days.

 

[LeeAnne]

Since it usually was dehydration related it took 2-3 days.

I hope that is the same for me!