Over sleeping

Jo00

Established Member
Willy is a healthy 8 month old Ambilobe panther chameleon. I’ve had him since mid March. He is on a 7 am to 7 pm day schedule. Since I got him, he has been going to his sleep branch between 2:30-3:30 pm. I thought he would grow out of it but he hasn’t. His husbandry is based the Chameleon Academy Panther Chameleon care summary

Has anyone else experienced this with their chameleon?
 

ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
Here it is!

Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:
  1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
  2. Photos can be very helpful.
 

Jo00

Established Member
Here it is!

Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:
  1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
  2. Photos can be very helpful.

  1. SEE BELOW
Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon
–AMBILOBE PANTHER, MALE, 8 MONTHS.IN MY CARE FOR 4 MONTHS

  • Handling – About 3-4 times a week to free roam.
  • Feeding10 AM…10-15 small crickets gut-loaded with Repashy Bug Burger, bee pollen, collard greens, green beans, or other vegetable such as squash/zucchini/carrot. He is losing interest in crickets and only eats about 5 through the day. 2 PM…depending on how many crickets he ate, I feed 3-4 silkworms or 10 BSFL. NOTE: thinking about switching the timing to see if he will eat more crickets later in case he’s just holding out for the worms🤷
  • Supplements – Zoo med repti calcium (without D3) and bee pollen every feeding; Repashy calcium LoD on 1stand 15th of month.
  • Watering – Misting 1 minute at 8PM and 6:30AM; Fogging 10PM to 5AM); Dripper about 1 hour 2x/day…stares at it but only occasionally drinks it.
  • Fecal Description – Tested clean in April. Colour and consistency of feces and urates are good. Very small amount of light orange at one end of urate. Sometimes passes some clear fluid, likely due to worms.
  • History – a couple of days after arriving, Willy started having left eye trouble. Bulging, rolling and rubbing frequently throughout the day. I saw no discoloration in his mouth so it seemed to be confined to his eye. Tried flushing with saline solution for a couple of weeks and no improvement so went to vet in April. Vet saw no shed or debris so checked for infection and prescribed antibiotics (Ciloxan solution) for 2 weeks with no improvement. Started saline flushing again and consulted with breeder. He suggested replacing Arcadia EarthProA with plain calcium so I did that. Took awhile but now is much better. I no longer use the EarthProA.
  • Cage Info:
  • Cage Type – XL Reptibreeze with 3 sides covered for humidity.
  • LightingUVB…ArcadiaT5 HO 6% runs from 6:45am to 6:45pm and is raised on 1” riser rack. BASKING is a dome and bulb is switched out seasonally to achieve 85 average basking temp. It is on for 2 hours AM and 2 hours PM to avoid overheating enclosure ambient temp. Sansi grow lights provide sufficient heat the rest of the time for basking, if he chooses. AMBIENT temp is approx 72-74 bottom, 74-76 middle monitored with Govee.
  • Temperature –. I got a little ahead of myself and addressed most of this above😬. Night time temp is 65 measured with Govee.
  • Humidity – Measured with Govee; average 50%-60% day time but need to hand mist a couple of times a day to raise because I run a dehumidifier during humid days for my Veiled Cham. Night time is 80-85% by misting 1 minute at 8PM and 6:30AM as well as running fogger from 10PM to 5AM. I tried covering the front screen at night to increase humidity but it didn’t make much difference.
  • Plants – All live. Bottom is white flag/peace lily. Mid way sides are tropical pitcher plant and golden pathos. Back mid way is spider plant in front of his chosen sleeping branch.
  • Placement – Enclosure top is 70” from the floor and located adjacent to the window and not near a vent. The chams have their own room so it is low traffic and I’m the only one who invades their room. I run a fan during the day for air circulation that is directed high and not directly in the enclosure. The portable ac is directed adjacent to the chams’ wall but I just discovered last night that, although not directed at them, the flow is spreading to their wall!!! I will now be rearranging it so it blows at the opposite wall rather than adjacent.
  • Location – located in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.
  • Current Problem – Willy goes to his sleep branch between 2:30-3:30 in the afternoon which is about 4 hours early. He has done this since I got him. Hoped he would grow out of it but he hasn’t
 

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Jo00

Established Member
Running off to my appointments but will check in as soon as i get home. Thank you so much!
 

BostonKeith

Avid Member
This is interesting whats the distance from your t5 to closest branch /basking? Its rare but sometimes the bulbs will work and not put out uvb. They make cheap uv testing cards that cost a couple bucks. Your feeding schedule seems like alot 30 bugs a day sometimes? At his age once a day or even every other would be okay. If hes loosing interest in crickets then roaches are another great staple. Nothing wrong with bsfl as well.
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Hi there I will go through your form. See my feedback in bold. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Your Chameleon –AMBILOBE PANTHER, MALE, 8 MONTHS.IN MY CARE FOR 4 MONTHS


  • Handling – About 3-4 times a week to free roam.
  • Feeding10 AM…10-15 small crickets gut-loaded with Repashy Bug Burger, bee pollen, collard greens, green beans, or other vegetable such as squash/zucchini/carrot. He is losing interest in crickets and only eats about 5 through the day. 2 PM…depending on how many crickets he ate, I feed 3-4 silkworms or 10 BSFL. NOTE: thinking about switching the timing to see if he will eat more crickets later in case he’s just holding out for the worms🤷Try sizing up your crickets so they are mediums. He may not be interested in smalls since he is much larger now. I would also feed everything in the morning instead of doing an evening feeding. They really need the time to digest during the day. Note you are feeding a ton of feeders and with him being 8 months old this may be more than he really wants.
  • Supplements – Zoo med repti calcium (without D3) and bee pollen every feeding; Repashy calcium LoD on 1stand 15th of month.
  • Watering – Misting 1 minute at 8PM and 6:30AM; Fogging 10PM to 5AM); Dripper about 1 hour 2x/day…stares at it but only occasionally drinks it. I would up the misting time... 1 minute is not long enough to trigger a drinking response or give him time to clean his eyes. Yes this will also depend on your ambient humidity levels. For example I run 5 minute misting sessions but I live in a really dry climate. When I lived in an extremely humid area morning misting was 2-3 minutes and then evening misting was longer. Also I would run an earlier evening misting as well after basking and sansi has kicked off so cage temps have dropped.
  • Fecal Description – Tested clean in April. Colour and consistency of feces and urates are good. Very small amount of light orange at one end of urate. Sometimes passes some clear fluid, likely due to worms. What do you mean likely due to worms? I thought he tested clean?
  • History – a couple of days after arriving, Willy started having left eye trouble. Bulging, rolling and rubbing frequently throughout the day. I saw no discoloration in his mouth so it seemed to be confined to his eye. Tried flushing with saline solution for a couple of weeks and no improvement so went to vet in April. Vet saw no shed or debris so checked for infection and prescribed antibiotics (Ciloxan solution) for 2 weeks with no improvement. Started saline flushing again and consulted with breeder. He suggested replacing Arcadia EarthProA with plain calcium so I did that. Took awhile but now is much better. I no longer use the EarthProA. The eye issues your describing can be linked to not having long enough misting times and vines like the jungle vines because the coating can flake off when they rub their eyes on them.
  • Cage Info:
  • Cage Type – XL Reptibreeze with 3 sides covered for humidity.
  • LightingUVB…ArcadiaT5 HO 6% runs from 6:45am to 6:45pm and is raised on 1” riser rack. BASKING is a dome and bulb is switched out seasonally to achieve 85 average basking temp. It is on for 2 hours AM and 2 hours PM to avoid overheating enclosure ambient temp. Sansi grow lights provide sufficient heat the rest of the time for basking, if he chooses. AMBIENT temp is approx 72-74 bottom, 74-76 middle monitored with Govee. What is the total distance from bottom of UVB fixture to branches below it? With what you have you want an 8-9 inch distance for the correct UVI level. Temps are good.
  • Temperature –. I got a little ahead of myself and addressed most of this above😬. Night time temp is 65 measured with Govee.
  • Humidity – Measured with Govee; average 50%-60% day time but need to hand mist a couple of times a day to raise because I run a dehumidifier during humid days for my Veiled Cham. Night time is 80-85% by misting 1 minute at 8PM and 6:30AM as well as running fogger from 10PM to 5AM. I tried covering the front screen at night to increase humidity but it didn’t make much difference.
  • Plants – All live. Bottom is white flag/peace lily. Mid way sides are tropical pitcher plant and golden pathos. Back mid way is spider plant in front of his chosen sleeping branch.
  • Placement – Enclosure top is 70” from the floor and located adjacent to the window and not near a vent. The chams have their own room so it is low traffic and I’m the only one who invades their room. I run a fan during the day for air circulation that is directed high and not directly in the enclosure. The portable ac is directed adjacent to the chams’ wall but I just discovered last night that, although not directed at them, the flow is spreading to their wall!!! I will now be rearranging it so it blows at the opposite wall rather than adjacent. So you can have a fan that oscillates and moves back and forth across their cages. It just needs to be a few feet away and not on the cage blowing air non stop.
  • Location – located in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.
  • Current Problem – Willy goes to his sleep branch between 2:30-3:30 in the afternoon which is about 4 hours early. He has done this since I got him. Hoped he would grow out of it but he hasn’t Honestly this is not abnormal. Some will do this seasonally. Mine will go to a sleeping spot about 4 hours early in winter months and in summer months 2-3 hours early. When husbandry is on point this behavior points more to their internal clock telling them it is time to bed down.
 

Jo00

Established Member
This is interesting whats the distance from your t5 to closest branch /basking? Its rare but sometimes the bulbs will work and not put out uvb. They make cheap uv testing cards that cost a couple bucks. Your feeding schedule seems like alot 30 bugs a day sometimes? At his age once a day or even every other would be okay. If hes loosing interest in crickets then roaches are another great staple. Nothing wrong with bsfl as well.
I’m not at home so can’t give you a precise distance until I’m back. I test his uvi frequently with a solar meter 6.5. We don’t have the array of feeders in Canada to switch things up unfortunately. And I stay away from meal worms and wax worms. Ya I agree he no longer needs as many feeders now that he’s beyond the all they can eat baby stage. I’m hoping his slow down on crickets is because he doesn’t need that much.
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
I’m not at home so can’t give you a precise distance until I’m back. I test his uvi frequently with a solar meter 6.5. We don’t have the array of feeders in Canada to switch things up unfortunately. And I stay away from meal worms and wax worms. Ya I agree he no longer needs as many feeders now that he’s beyond the all they can eat baby stage. I’m hoping his slow down on crickets is because he doesn’t need that much.
Perfect what reading do you normally get on your solarmeter?
 

Jo00

Established Member
If you have a solar meter then disregard my question about distance Beeman just reviewed your husbandry. Your in better hands now. ✨
thanks. I do appreciate your input. You had me wondering if I made a mistake somewhere in the form…did I say 30 feeders?
 

Jo00

Established Member
Hi there I will go through your form. See my feedback in bold. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Your Chameleon –AMBILOBE PANTHER, MALE, 8 MONTHS.IN MY CARE FOR 4 MONTHS


  • Handling – About 3-4 times a week to free roam.
  • Feeding10 AM…10-15 small crickets gut-loaded with Repashy Bug Burger, bee pollen, collard greens, green beans, or other vegetable such as squash/zucchini/carrot. He is losing interest in crickets and only eats about 5 through the day. 2 PM…depending on how many crickets he ate, I feed 3-4 silkworms or 10 BSFL. NOTE: thinking about switching the timing to see if he will eat more crickets later in case he’s just holding out for the worms🤷Try sizing up your crickets so they are mediums. He may not be interested in smalls since he is much larger now. I would also feed everything in the morning instead of doing an evening feeding. They really need the time to digest during the day. Note you are feeding a ton of feeders and with him being 8 months old this may be more than he really wants.
  • Supplements – Zoo med repti calcium (without D3) and bee pollen every feeding; Repashy calcium LoD on 1stand 15th of month.
  • Watering – Misting 1 minute at 8PM and 6:30AM; Fogging 10PM to 5AM); Dripper about 1 hour 2x/day…stares at it but only occasionally drinks it. I would up the misting time... 1 minute is not long enough to trigger a drinking response or give him time to clean his eyes. Yes this will also depend on your ambient humidity levels. For example I run 5 minute misting sessions but I live in a really dry climate. When I lived in an extremely humid area morning misting was 2-3 minutes and then evening misting was longer. Also I would run an earlier evening misting as well after basking and sansi has kicked off so cage temps have dropped.
  • Fecal Description – Tested clean in April. Colour and consistency of feces and urates are good. Very small amount of light orange at one end of urate. Sometimes passes some clear fluid, likely due to worms. What do you mean likely due to worms? I thought he tested clean?
  • History – a couple of days after arriving, Willy started having left eye trouble. Bulging, rolling and rubbing frequently throughout the day. I saw no discoloration in his mouth so it seemed to be confined to his eye. Tried flushing with saline solution for a couple of weeks and no improvement so went to vet in April. Vet saw no shed or debris so checked for infection and prescribed antibiotics (Ciloxan solution) for 2 weeks with no improvement. Started saline flushing again and consulted with breeder. He suggested replacing Arcadia EarthProA with plain calcium so I did that. Took awhile but now is much better. I no longer use the EarthProA. The eye issues your describing can be linked to not having long enough misting times and vines like the jungle vines because the coating can flake off when they rub their eyes on them.
  • Cage Info:
  • Cage Type – XL Reptibreeze with 3 sides covered for humidity.
  • LightingUVB…ArcadiaT5 HO 6% runs from 6:45am to 6:45pm and is raised on 1” riser rack. BASKING is a dome and bulb is switched out seasonally to achieve 85 average basking temp. It is on for 2 hours AM and 2 hours PM to avoid overheating enclosure ambient temp. Sansi grow lights provide sufficient heat the rest of the time for basking, if he chooses. AMBIENT temp is approx 72-74 bottom, 74-76 middle monitored with Govee. What is the total distance from bottom of UVB fixture to branches below it? With what you have you want an 8-9 inch distance for the correct UVI level. Temps are good.
  • Temperature –. I got a little ahead of myself and addressed most of this above😬. Night time temp is 65 measured with Govee.
  • Humidity – Measured with Govee; average 50%-60% day time but need to hand mist a couple of times a day to raise because I run a dehumidifier during humid days for my Veiled Cham. Night time is 80-85% by misting 1 minute at 8PM and 6:30AM as well as running fogger from 10PM to 5AM. I tried covering the front screen at night to increase humidity but it didn’t make much difference.
  • Plants – All live. Bottom is white flag/peace lily. Mid way sides are tropical pitcher plant and golden pathos. Back mid way is spider plant in front of his chosen sleeping branch.
  • Placement – Enclosure top is 70” from the floor and located adjacent to the window and not near a vent. The chams have their own room so it is low traffic and I’m the only one who invades their room. I run a fan during the day for air circulation that is directed high and not directly in the enclosure. The portable ac is directed adjacent to the chams’ wall but I just discovered last night that, although not directed at them, the flow is spreading to their wall!!! I will now be rearranging it so it blows at the opposite wall rather than adjacent. So you can have a fan that oscillates and moves back and forth across their cages. It just needs to be a few feet away and not on the cage blowing air non stop.
  • Location – located in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.
  • Current Problem – Willy goes to his sleep branch between 2:30-3:30 in the afternoon which is about 4 hours early. He has done this since I got him. Hoped he would grow out of it but he hasn’t Honestly this is not abnormal. Some will do this seasonally. Mine will go to a sleeping spot about 4 hours early in winter months and in summer months 2-3 hours early. When husbandry is on point this behavior points more to their internal clock telling them it is time to bed down.
Thank you so much. I can’t seem to insert comments after your questions so…
feeders
—I will cut back to 5 medium crickets and a silk or 5 BSFL in the mornings. I will then reduce this to every 2nd day, right?
watering—I only fog before and after all lights are off and temps have dropped but I will certainly increase the duration.
fecal— yes he did test clean. I meant that the excess fluid he sometimes passes might be from the extra hydration from the worms.
history—I thought the flukers foam like vines were safe. These aren’t the nasty grainy ones. Should the vines be removed?
lighting—the UVB is 9 inches from the bottom of the uvb bulb and the highest point of the uvb basking branch.
placement—the fan is 6.5 feet away but I had it pointing above the enclosures. I’ve just readjusted it to oscillate at a lower level.
sleep time—I am VERY happy to hear that the early sleep is not abnormal. This has been eating away at me and I decided to ask for advice from this group before going the vet route. And I learned SO MUCH MORE. YOU ARE AWESOME💚
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Thank you so much. I can’t seem to insert comments after your questions so…
feeders
—I will cut back to 5 medium crickets and a silk or 5 BSFL in the mornings. I will then reduce this to every 2nd day, right?
watering—I only fog before and after all lights are off and temps have dropped but I will certainly increase the duration.
fecal— yes he did test clean. I meant that the excess fluid he sometimes passes might be from the extra hydration from the worms.
history—I thought the flukers foam like vines were safe. These aren’t the nasty grainy ones. Should the vines be removed?
lighting—the UVB is 9 inches from the bottom of the uvb bulb and the highest point of the uvb basking branch.
placement—the fan is 6.5 feet away but I had it pointing above the enclosures. I’ve just readjusted it to oscillate at a lower level.
sleep time—I am VERY happy to hear that the early sleep is not abnormal. This has been eating away at me and I decided to ask for advice from this group before going the vet route. And I learned SO MUCH MORE. YOU ARE AWESOME💚
So feeders at this age would be more like a dozen a day.
So fogging should only be done at night when all lights are off and temps are cold. I was speaking to increasing your misting times.
Oh ok so fluid from horn worms not a parasite. Got ya.
Foam vines are safe but the jungle black vines like you have in the one pic are not.
Since you have the solarmeter just make sure you are getting a 3 UVI at the basking branches.

:) It is always good to double check especially when you feel something may be off. These guys hide issues so the subtle changes are what we really have to pay attention to.
 
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