Outdoor enclosure safety question
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fluxlizard
Avid Member
Depends on where you are living and maybe what you are making your cage out of.
I had a horrible problem with fireflies going into my bearded dragon cages long ago when I first started keeping lizards outdoors during the summer.
I think it was because the cages were wood and held some humidity around the door frame after the rain. For whatever reason, fireflies would crawl in through the tiny gap between the door and the frame and enter the cage, costing me dragons (I know it was fireflies because we necropsied to figure out what the heck was going on- in 36 hours we lost a number of adult dragons one summer- every one of them had firefly parts somewhere from the mouth (yep killed some of them before they even swallowed the insect) down into the stomach- actually chewed pretty well, we identified the fireflies from bits and pieces of the insect).
After that, I became a big fan of reptariums.
Strangely, that same summer I had perhaps larger gaps in my chameleon doors and never lost a chameleon- I don't think the fireflies were going into those cages although they were also wood framed and were misted daily so there was more humidity and moisture available. So I don't know what was going on to bring them into the bearded dragon cages.
Also strangely, after visiting Agama International, I noticed that although they had hundreds of outdoor enclosures most were protected only with hardware cloth type wiring allowing insects free access in and out of the cages. I asked about fireflies since I had experienced such a nightmare with them, and I was told it had never been a problem for them down there, although they definitely had fireflies. I was also surprised that there were black widows and scorpions in the cages along with the lizards. Don't know if the lizards were good at hunting them or if they just ignored each other.
So I don't know quite what attracted them into my cages, but it was a hard lesson to learn, so I am paranoid about insect proofing my outdoor enclosures.
I had a horrible problem with fireflies going into my bearded dragon cages long ago when I first started keeping lizards outdoors during the summer.
I think it was because the cages were wood and held some humidity around the door frame after the rain. For whatever reason, fireflies would crawl in through the tiny gap between the door and the frame and enter the cage, costing me dragons (I know it was fireflies because we necropsied to figure out what the heck was going on- in 36 hours we lost a number of adult dragons one summer- every one of them had firefly parts somewhere from the mouth (yep killed some of them before they even swallowed the insect) down into the stomach- actually chewed pretty well, we identified the fireflies from bits and pieces of the insect).
After that, I became a big fan of reptariums.
Strangely, that same summer I had perhaps larger gaps in my chameleon doors and never lost a chameleon- I don't think the fireflies were going into those cages although they were also wood framed and were misted daily so there was more humidity and moisture available. So I don't know what was going on to bring them into the bearded dragon cages.
Also strangely, after visiting Agama International, I noticed that although they had hundreds of outdoor enclosures most were protected only with hardware cloth type wiring allowing insects free access in and out of the cages. I asked about fireflies since I had experienced such a nightmare with them, and I was told it had never been a problem for them down there, although they definitely had fireflies. I was also surprised that there were black widows and scorpions in the cages along with the lizards. Don't know if the lizards were good at hunting them or if they just ignored each other.
So I don't know quite what attracted them into my cages, but it was a hard lesson to learn, so I am paranoid about insect proofing my outdoor enclosures.
carol5208
Chameleon Enthusiast
I have a large outdoor cage but it is just for daytime use, not night. I would be up all night checking on my cham if he stayed outside and I would never get any sleep! We have alot of hawks where I live and I came outside one day and there was one sitting on the top of the cage pouncing up and down. They are constantly circling overhead so make sure you use something very strong for the screen, like heavy duty chicken wire type material if you have large predators around. The downside is, yes bugs fly in. I have seen wasps and bees fly in and out and I am afraid that he might eat them and get stung in the throat. I suppose I am paranoid but I guess it could happen. I also get those small anoles that venture in there and he likes to eat them! I would never deliberately feed him one but I have seen them in there and he immediately goes to stalk them. I try and shoo them out of the cage before it happens. So there are pluses and minuses to using the large wire instead of the screen but overall it is safer I guess.
fluxlizard
Avid Member
Maybe- the dragons were actually eating the fireflies during the day- they crawled in I suppose at night, but the dragons were sleeping then. During the day I'd go by and find one dragon dead, then another a little while later and so on! It was terrible. So, unless you check carefully for fireflies every morning, I think just having a day cage is no insurance unless it comes into the house with the lizard at night.
My solution was to switch mostly to reptariums, and I've had great luck there.
I live in the country, I've seen possums, cats, skunks, dogs, rats, some kind of small hawk (don't know what it is- only about a foot high, sits on our deck and cries, and nests in a tree in our yard), coyotes, and even a bobcat once in our yard, and none have ever shown any interest in the lizards. I keep the reptariums on low rustic tables. I've seen dogs and coyotes walk right between the rows without a glance at the cages.
I have had 3 problems with predators-
1- a raccoon once tore into a metal screened cage in the old days that I had sitting near the ground. He ate a bunch (entire clutch- must have been a few dozen at least) of several week old dilepis that I had bred and hatched, and left me a big poop in the cage before leaving- I took the poop to the university extension service and had him identified as a raccoon. I started using tables after that and never had another racoon problem.
2- Not so much predator, but I did have mice once get into my lizard building before I knew what was going on. I knew I had a couple out there, but was inexperienced with mice and did not know the damage they could do. Within weeks I knew they had brought their friends and family with them! They cut holes into about 50 reptariums to steal food pellets from bearded dragons before I realised I had a problem one winter. I had to patch a lot of reptariums because of those mice and I keep mouse poison out for them to find ever since! I do have mice and some kind of short tailed rat that live wild in the fields around here and have seen them in the yard, but they have never bothered the lizards out in the yard.
3- a little kid who was a terror lived in a rented house about 100 yards away. Think 6 years old or so. His father was in prison. He had one of those little cars that little kids can drive that runs on a big battery. He flattened one of my nieghbors 40' x 20' garden completely with it. LOL. Anyway, one evening I saw him running out of the yard from under a row of trees where I kept my monkey tailed skinks. I didn't think much of it, and told him to come ask me if he wanted to look at the lizards and we would look at them together, but that was the only time I wanted him in the yard (because of his previous crime wave in the neighbor's garden - only 6 year old I know who had the police called on him!). I didn't think much more about it but the next day I found that he had returned later that evening and he opened and released several corucia including a couple of babies that I had produced. And that was the end of a nice group of corucia for me- this was shortly after they stopped coming into the country so there was no hope of finding more that I could afford, and although I spent many nights that summer with a flashlight searching the woods near the cages, I never found any.
So there are my tales of wo. Keep in mind these 3 and the fireflies are the only cage problems I've had after starting outdoor housing in the summers in the mid 90s, and out of hundreds (thousands if you count offspring kept outdoors until sold) of lizards. So odds are pretty much on your side, but if I saw a hawk bouncing up and down on one of my cages, for sure I'd be out there adding hardware cloth at least to the top and sides...
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fluxlizard
Avid Member
yes- fireflies have one of the highest concentrations of digitalis found in nature. Similar to stuff sometimes used in heart medication. It gives bearded dragons a heart attack. This experience of mine happened about the same time that this information started to be studied and reports started appearing in journals and reptile magazines warning not to feed fireflies.
Fireflies...
http://www.anapsid.org/fireflies.html
http://www.anapsid.org/fireflies.html
djfishygillz
Avid Member
Bees
If your chameleon eats a bee it is really bad news... I have heard of a tongue falling off from a chameleon eating a bee.
If your chameleon eats a bee it is really bad news... I have heard of a tongue falling off from a chameleon eating a bee.
screen, metal,tent, and a cement house over the tent lol
fluxlizard
Avid Member
Wow- I find that surprising.
I figured wild chameleons would eat bees all the time. I suppose the method of hunting with a sticky tongue would be a disadvantage vs a stinger.
I have no experience one way or the other with chameleons, but one time a bee flew into a cage I had that had a pair of giant day geckos in it, and those guys really knew their stuff when it came to bees. They were extremely quick and careful and skillful when it came to catching and eating it. They nipped at it just so, carefully avoiding the stinger, and after a few nips they downed it and one ran and crushed it in his jaws before smearing it against something to get the stinger off, and then swallowing it. The bee by far was the most excited and alert I ever saw them when hunting.
