Now what!

[mary prefontaine]

Ok so i may have bred my chams too soon, but what is done is done, and now i have to prepare for her being gravid. I need to know what is the better soil to use for her to lay her eggs in and what kind of container as im afraid she may lay in her potted plant. I see a lot of people using perlite, but im just not sure how deep a container either. My book says 12 inches, which seems awfully deep. any ideas. I weighed her at the drs and they said she weighed 6.5 oz but my new scale is in kgs and it only says 87kg which is a lot less, maybe ill buy another one.

 

[camimom]

how old is she?

and we dont use perlite for diggin, thats for hatching the eggs in.

washed play sand.. 12 inchs deep is correct, but deeper is always better.

 

[MamaD]

I have had great luck with an even mixture of play sand and organic soil. I started using this method because a breeder I talked to raised the point that sand alone could be dangerous because it could potentially cave in on her when she is digging.Not sure if anyone else feels this way, but, I'm a spaz!LOL

 

[robmd1]

for layen bins i use a moist coco fiber an playsand mix helps make it more stable..

 

[mary prefontaine]

ok so play sand and possibly potting soil combined for laying.

Now what do i use for a container for her to lay? a pot? I have nothing sgaure or deep enough, other that a pot for planting. and whats to keep her from using her plants? do i take them out altogether? when and if she does lay, do you just remove the eggs after a while and place them in vermicilite or perlite? Her cage is 24"x24" and its filled with tall potted plants, which she likes to climb on and sleep on one of the branches. I think someone asked her age? she is only about 9 months if that. The vet says this would be natural if she were a wild cham, but i forgot to ask her what problems may occur if she's too young. I didn't like that vet and felt she was not as knowledgable as the assistants stated she was about reptiles. so i may have to find another vet. In the meanwhile i need all the help i can get to get her through this egg laying process.
Im feeling a bit guilty for allowing them together to start with, but i figured if she was too young and not ready, she would just let me know by her getting aggressive on him, but it wasnt like that at all, after i saw her colors were not going dark and she was being friendly towards him, i went to answer a phone call and by the time i walked back in with my calll, he was already mounting her.
So what does everyone here use for laying containers? And should i take out the plants?

 

[Olimpia]

You can go buy a plastic storage bin at any Walmart or Target for a couple dollars that is 12" deep and at least 7-8" wide. I also use a mix of sand and organic top soil, both available cheaply at Lowe's or Home Depot.

 

[Dez]

I use a large pot.

You can use a 5 gallon bucket
a trash can
a tote bin

it needs to be filled at least 8 inches of dirt or more

I personally use Topsoil ($1.19 a bag) for my girls. It needs to be moist enough to dig a tunnel in but not soaking wet mud. It the dirt is too dry the tunnel will cave in or she may not be able to dig at all

I give my gravid girls extra calcium via calcium drops.

 

[MamaD]

I use the narrow rubbermaid waste cans. 13.3x.9x9.9". 8quart.
Deep enough and narrow enough to fit along side the plant. I like to drill small holes on the bottom to allow for drainage. Make sure that whatever you choose to put in the container for her to lay in that it is kept moist, not too wet or too dry. If it is one extreme or the other she won't lay in it and will turn to her plant as an alternative. Some girls will test your patience and lay in the plant no matter how perfect her laying set up is!

 

[mary prefontaine]

calcium drops?

Where can i get calcium drops and do i have to force feed her them? mine is not used to being handled too much, but may open or gape at me if i do handle her, making it easy to place drops in. I hope lol. I do feed her calcium daily in her cricks and worms.
Ok so i will have to remove my large potted plants since i have no room in my cage for both the 12 inch deep container and the potted plants. hopefully she will be ok to start sleeping on her vines instead. and i don't want her to lay in the potted plants anyway. I will go get everything tomorrow, so i can have it down in 1-2 weeks from now. My scale should be in soon so i can keep an eye on her weight.
Next question would be… how will i know if she's having a problem while she's laying if maybe she gets egg bound, I will ask my vet as well, but i would like peoples opinion since they are hands on daily with these issues.
This forum is pretty good for getting experienced answers i find, whereas the vets only know what they read in the books and dont actually have chams themselves. But once I know what to look for i will be ready to rush her to the vet as I do know they can help with any emergency that may come up. Any help you can offer on my first time trying to raise babies.
My next question will be what to do with the eggs after she lays. I will of course read my books again, but would love everyones opinion on this.

 

[MamaD]

Where can i get calcium drops and do i have to force feed her them? mine is not used to being handled too much, but may open or gape at me if i do handle her, making it easy to place drops in. I hope lol. I do feed her calcium daily in her cricks and worms.
Ok so i will have to remove my large potted plants since i have no room in my cage for both the 12 inch deep container and the potted plants. hopefully she will be ok to start sleeping on her vines instead. and i don't want her to lay in the potted plants anyway. I will go get everything tomorrow, so i can have it down in 1-2 weeks from now. My scale should be in soon so i can keep an eye on her weight.
Next question would be… how will i know if she's having a problem while she's laying if maybe she gets egg bound, I will ask my vet as well, but i would like peoples opinion since they are hands on daily with these issues.
This forum is pretty good for getting experienced answers i find, whereas the vets only know what they read in the books and dont actually have chams themselves. But once I know what to look for i will be ready to rush her to the vet as I do know they can help with any emergency that may come up. Any help you can offer on my first time trying to raise babies.
My next question will be what to do with the eggs after she lays. I will of course read my books again, but would love everyones opinion on this.

Why are you trying to use calcium drops? For the pregnancy? I just follow my regular supplement cycle for them. But, be careful not to overfeed her. As far as being housed with other chams, at about 2months old, if you notice them hissing and nipping at one another, then it's time to separate them. Look for nip marks on the tales. Once females are pregnant, they will usually have a 30-40day gestation period. I personally don't use a scale to check her weight because you will see her gradually turn into a large Marge! You will even start to see lumps, which are the eggs, develop on her belly.
Now, the plant issue. She needs that plant for humidity and privacy. Just get a smaller plant! I like to put some fake vines around the laying bin to give her extra privacy when she does start to lay. If she feels too exposed, then she may avoid laying there and possibly become egg bound. I've had females insist on laying in their plant...not the end of the world! when it is time to lay, some chams will dig what I call practice holes. When she is ready, she will start burying herself pretty deep. First you will see her head down while digging. Then, once she is tail down, she is laying. Females should lay the whole clutch at once. If you see her just keep going to her laying bin repeatedly and not emerging looking like a string bean, then being egg bound is a possibility. Or if she exceeds the average 30-40 day gestation. This is all what I have found. Not the absolute gospel of female pregnancy and laying. Hope this helps and best of luck to both of you!

 

[Olimpia]

You don't have to force feed her the drops, although if you're ninja enough you can sneak a plastic syringe inbetween her lips while she's drinking or chewing on food. You can also pick up a syringe needle and inject a drop or two into a feeder, and have her eat it normally. I also extra supplement my female with calcium when she's gravid because it's so much easier to under supplement than oversupplement, and females use an obscene amount of the mineral when making eggs. You can also just dust with calcium a little heavier during a few days of the week while she's gravid.

You can put river rocks on the soil of the potted plants so she can't get at it. I have a female that always lays in her one potted plant, so I've just resorted to letting her do it. As long as she's comfortable, I don't mind. But you can cover the soil with rocks or something so it's not an appealing location.

I think the scale is a good idea because if you weigh her every few days and say you've got a weight on her of 90g, and then after she lays she only drops down to 87g, then you know she didn't finish. There's no way she lost only 3 grams laying 20-40 eggs! So I find scales useful for that. Mine will lose like 20g every time she lays eggs, if I remember correctly. Especially if this is your first time you may not want to go by just her thinness to determine if she's done, because you'll find yourself going "well, is she thinner? I guess... maybe?" If she does lay correctly and does it all at once you will definitely notice the difference though!

 

[MamaD]

Thanks for the river rocks idea! I'm going to pick some up. Also, just in case she does get into the plant, I try to keep an eye on her to make sure she doesn't get stuck in the roots.

 

[kinyonga]

When the female is digging do not let her see you watching her or she may abandon the hole.

Signs of eggbinding include but are not limited to...sitting low in the cage, lethargic, not eating, eyes closed, may dig a hole and fill it in without having laid eggs. The problem is that by the time most people figure out that the chameleon is eggbound its too late to help it.

Once the female lays her eggs and fills in the hole and tamps it down and returns to the branches you can dig the eggs up.

I incubate them in shoebox sized tupperware type containers. I punch two very very tiny holes in the lid. I fill the container about 1/2 full of barely moist coarse grained vermiculite. (I only fill it half full to leave room for the hatchlings to move around once they hatch until they are removed from the container. To test the vermiculite for dampness....take a fist full of it and squeeze it...no more than a drop or two of water should come out of it.) I lay the eggs on the vermiculite in rows in indentations that I make with my thumb. Put the lid on and place the container somewhere in the house or in an incubator where the temperature is in the mid 70'sF. Beads of moisture will form on the inside of the container...this is normal.

 

[mary prefontaine]

ok got it.

the container is 12 inches deep and i ended up buying playsand, I could only find perlite as walmart does not have vermicilite. Will that do? I could mix it with a little sphagnum peat to help keep it more moist, as i thin k that was an issue i saw on one of these forums. Once the eggs are laid and all is ok with her, i will put the eggs in a small palstic comntainer with the perlite and keep it moist. Do i seal the container, keep a heat lamp on it or what next? my book does not go into much detail, but i will look through here more and google it. thanks for everyones help.

 

[Olimpia]

Check to see if the perlite has any fertilizer. I did that once with a batch of gecko eggs and couldn't figure out why they were consistently molding over until I caught the word "fertilizer" on the bag of it while I was cleaning up my reptile room. Turns out it kills the eggs and/or allows mold to grow more easily, and then kills the eggs. If it does, you may want to just look online and order some vermiculite. It may be harder to scout all the gardening stores for plain, unfertilized perlite.

You don't have to mix moss into it, if you dampen the perlite so that if you grab a handful and can only squeeze out a drop or two, then you're good. Put that in a tupperware container like the ones for food (the shallow ones are good, I think) and close the lid. You can punch a couple small holes with a needle and leave it to incubate in a part of your house that stays pretty stable, like a closet or in a cabinet. Since you're in FL, your house may not get colder than 70*F, which is fine. They incubate at room temperature really well, so temps like 70-75 are good.

 

[mary prefontaine]

very cool.

well it says it is enriched with miracle grow, so i guess that wont work huh?ok i will look for vermicilite now. So just keep them between 70-75 and thats it huh? No light or anything? Im going to the vet tuesday to give her a good check up. What about calcium drops that someone mentioned earlier? maybe the vet can give me that. Thanks so much for all the help. I want this to work, and if shes not gravid, i wont be too worried since shes really too young anyway and i will wait another 3-6 months, before i put them together again.meanwhile i want to be ready before hand as they were together about 15-20 minutes (attached) So theres a good chance she is gravid. wish me luck!!

 

[kinyonga]

Just to clarify...the sand is for the container that she digs in to lay the eggs.

The vermiculite is for the container that you put the eggs in to incubate them after you dig them up out of the sand. Sand won't likely work to use in the container you put the eggs in to incubate them since it can't be kept evenly moist and may even pull moisture from the eggs and dry them out.

As for incubating the eggs...you don't seal the container, you just put the lid on it. Eggs need to be incubated in the dark...so no...don't put a light on them. I assume you don't have an incubator and are just going to leave them in the room somewhere?

 

[mary prefontaine]

ok here is the idea now

First yes I do have play sand for laying the eggs and its been around 3 weeks so i have it in the cage now. (she went down to look at the container this morning) and i have vermiculite coming in the mail for incubating them, I was going to just put the eggs, once layed into a small container with the vermicilite kept lightly moist and in a dark area as you are suggesting, perhaps in a drawer or just on a nearby shelf, so i can remember to look at them daily, and make sure they do not get dry. Do they need to be in an absolutely blacked out room? or can they just be in a room but with no direct light, just everyday light. I can put them in a drawer or i was thinking my shower stall which may keep a little humidity as well. How is that idea?
I do know not to handle the eggs except to move them into their hatching container. do they need to be turned or anything? I would not think so since in nature they would just stay put. temp will be between 69-75 correct? Thanks for all the great ideas peeps, i really appreciate all the help i can get!
Now I see all kinds of issues going on with egg binding possibilities. My plan is to take her in tomorrow to the vet, first to make sure shes in good health and that she is indeed gravid. Also to have the vet come up with a plan for when he needs to see her again (perhaps after laying) to make sure she got all the eggs out. I know this can get pricy but i would feel much better to have a vet on hand in case she as any issues come up.
Im like a very nervous mother watching my daughter having a baby lol.
I will take all these suggestions into hand, and also see what the vet suggests as well.