Not so sure we've got this laying bin stuff right

[Mr Wilson]

After reading Jann's blog, we went with clean play sand in a 12 inch deep bucket to place in the cage that we keep moist. It holds it's shape if I dig into it.. not too wet or dry.

We had brought Layla to the vet because she wasn't looking too hot (She's fantastic now!) and the vet claimed she was gravid due to seeing eggs in the xrays (We never got to see the xrays. We completely forgot about looking at them after waiting for him to administer some meds and fluids which took HOURS for us to wait for bc he was busy with other animals too). She shows absolutely no interest in the bin, yet continues to roam all over the cage.

So anyway, we were just wondering what you all use for a panther's laying bin. Is it different from a veiled's? Are we doing something wrong? I think I'm jut concerned that maybe the sand is too wet or not wet enough. I have searched the forums but have not found the information I am really looking for. I guess I'm really looking for more of a step-by-step "how to make a laying bin that goes inside our cage" answer since we are not willing to use a giant garbage can in our apartment haha.

 

[warpdrive]

you're doing everything right if the bucket is the same for a veiled.
she's acting normal too. in about 1 or 2 days she will start making test holes. then she will lay.

my female ambilobie just dug a huge hole...she may have done it, but I think it's just a test hole.

Harry

btw, mine is in a huge garbage can. and I live in a 1 bedroom apartment too.

 

[jannb]

I'm keeping my daughter's panthers as I often do and one of the girls laid last Sat. as they often do at Grandma's. I put a smaller bin in her cage 12x8x6 and she messed around with it for a few days. If she had not laid when she did she was going in Camille's trash can. What I like about the trash can is they can't get out. Camille's always so interested in other things it's nice to have a big one I can put her in for a couple of hours when I think she's ready and she has nothing to do but hang on her stick or dig.
BTW: My house is less than 900 sq. ft.

 

[fluxlizard]

I've used different things for egg laying. I would not use plain sand- not many lizards lay eggs on the beach!

If you want sand then mix a significant amount of peat moss in with it.

Dampness is correct when you can tunnel with your hand and the tunnel does not collapse.

I just use soil from my back yard. I don't fertilize or pesticize my yard, so that is probably something to consider. I have found that all lizards respond really well to real soil. Probably has a smell to it and a consitancy that they like, and it is always the right dampness in my part of the world. On top of about half of the soil I sometimes put a thin layer of dry leaves(depending on the species laying- can't go wrong with dry leaves on top for chameleons), and I sometimes put some bark or a large flat stone or chunk of log or a potted plant or even a lid or something. Often chameleons like to start their tunnels using things like that as a roof. If the female needs a little "help" to get the idea of what to do I have started a tunnel for the cham about 3 or 4" deep to give the lizard a place to start- and sometimes the lizard responds really well to the start. I don't think I have had to do that in many years though, since switching from sand/peat to dirt from the yard.

 

[Mr Wilson]

Thanks guys. I personally just don't like the idea of having a huge garbage can right in our main room. Our apartment just has 1 main room where the chams are on one side along the walls and our seating area is on the other side. We literally have no room for a giant garbage can not to mention I just personally don't like the way it would look.

Do the chameleons dig straight down or on an angle?

 

[Texas Panther Man]

It doesnt have to be a big gargage can. One of the smaller kitchen cans will work fine. Ive used planter backets lately I had left over from the nursery. They are small enuff to fit in the cage and yet big and deep enuff for her to have room to dig. I always stick a large piece of manzanita in there for her to climb in and out on. She always seems to start her hole right at the base of that manzanita branch. I use 75% sand 25% organic soil. My reason for this is the sand can stand more water from misting without turning into a muddy mess. Ive tried using a 50/50 mix and it wasnt working for my situation. You just have to find what works for you and your female.

 

[fluxlizard]

That's a good point on the sand and moisture.

I don't use misters over the female nest sites, but then I wait until I know they are ready to lay before moving them into the nesting container and they usually aren't there longer than overnight, or if I'm not sure and it might take a few days, I'll setup a drip cup with maybe a catch bowl for watering temporarily.

Lots of things can work for containers. I like the garbage can for my situation because it is private and secure for the chameleon, but I've also used 5 gallon buckets with a little cage of coated hardware cloth that fits on the rim a lot, even 2 1/2 gallon rubbermaid storage containers that I put the female in and lid on top with a hole cut in the lid for privacy for experienced females (they go in and out of the hole), and panthers will often lay in large (17" pots) potted plants if the root ball isn't taking up too much room in the pot and if you don't have fertilizer in the plant.

All that said- I would be more concerned with what makes the female comfortable and secure rather than how my living room looks for a couple of days while she lays. For your first egg laying experience- garbage can or 5 gallon bucket are your best choices as they are going to be easiest to make comfortable for your cham if you know less about what you are doing and what she needs this time around.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

That's a good point on the sand and moisture.

I don't use misters over the female nest sites, but then I wait until I know they are ready to lay before moving them into the nesting container and they usually aren't there longer than overnight, or if I'm not sure and it might take a few days, I'll setup a drip cup with maybe a catch bowl for watering temporarily.

Lots of things can work for containers. I like the garbage can for my situation because it is private and secure for the chameleon, but I've also used 5 gallon buckets with a little cage of coated hardware cloth that fits on the rim a lot, even 2 1/2 gallon rubbermaid storage containers that I put the female in and lid on top with a hole cut in the lid for privacy for experienced females (they go in and out of the hole), and panthers will often lay in large (17" pots) potted plants if the root ball isn't taking up too much room in the pot and if you don't have fertilizer in the plant.

All that said- I would be more concerned with what makes the female comfortable and secure rather than how my living room looks for a couple of days while she lays. For your first egg laying experience- garbage can or 5 gallon bucket are your best choices as they are going to be easiest to make comfortable for your cham if you know less about what you are doing and what she needs this time around.

I totally agree Flux. In fact my first clutch yrs ago was laid in a kitchen garbage can. Its really the easiest way to make em lay. After all its whats best for the cham not what looks the prettiest. Jmpo

 

[ryanlegend]

so about how old does a female have to be before she lays eggs?

 

[Mr Wilson]

I guess that makes sense with whatever will make it work for her. Money is slightly tight right now though, with the holidays and what not, and that sand is NOT cheap (at least what we bought at Lowes was not cheap!) We have a kitchen waste basket in the cage with a vine going into it for easy access. I've dug a hole into it that goes straight down (not all the way down) to see how she reacts. We actually need to go out and buy a second waste basket for our other cham who is older and just bought at a reptile expo in White Plains. We moved the one basket we have into her cage because she is older and a bit more round. She seems to be much more interested in the bin than Layla was.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

Also you may want to try putting a cover over the front of the cage to give her more privacy.My faly wouldnt lay her first clutch until I covered the front of her cage. Once I put up her curtain, she laid the same day. Just a thought, its worked for me and many others.

 

[Mr Wilson]

Hmm thats a good idea. I thought just covering up the bin was enough. We will try out the towel on the cage and see what happens

 

[pssh]

At home depot I can buy 50 lbs of play sand for less than $5.

If your female starts acting ill, take her to the vet immediately. She might need a shot to make her lay at that point. It should go over smoothly if she has privacy and is okay with the digging material. Maybe set down a sand pot and a dirt pot or mix to see if she prefers one? My Sambava prefers a sand soil mix. Approx 70% sand, 30% soil.

 

[Mr Wilson]

Maybe we will try the mix and see if she reacts to that. We got the same bag, but if you have to get a few to fill a large garbage can up enough for it to be at least 12 inches deep, you'll have to buy quite a few bags!

 

[pssh]

Yeah, but if you use moss or soil in the mix it makes it less dense and therefore less is needed to fill up the tub. If you use a kitchen garbage bin (assuming it's about 2-3 feet tall and a foot wide/deep) you should only need a bag or two of sand.

 

[jastate09]

I've always used washed playsand with great success. Here in FL my backyard is very sandy and I'm miles from the ocean.

 

[Jimturner]

I have found sand to be very hard on the females digging in it. Very abrasive, grinds down their nails and rubs their snouts raw. for this reason I switched back to plain soil.

 

[Jimturner]

To add to the confusion… I originally switched from soil to sand because I found that the soil sticking to the eggs was causing mold problems during incubation