Not eating

Olli

New Member
He's a Noseby panther chameleon. She is very attached to him as his is one of a kind. He's very friendly and positively enjoys being handled.

He's in a 4ft tall, 3ft wide, 3ft deep vivarium. He gets heat all the time but it's on a timer to give him the night time drop. 30C daytime basking spot, the lowest it drops to on a night is 26C. She keeps him at 75% humidity during the day.

At the moment his UV is coming from this Lucky Reptile Bright Bulb which we've just found out needs replacing every 4 months and we just can't afford that so hence working out the T5. We were told it would last 12 months. He stopped eating after it had been in for 5 months. A few days back we changed it on the suggestion of the vet and that's when we discovered how little we knew about these bulbs. All we can find on it is it's a Jungle 70w. It is set to come on at about 6am as it takes a long time to become bright and isn't on full until 7am. It goes off at 7pm.

He did have a fig tree in his vivarium and a large piece of wood with fake bendy vines wound around so he could bask. However, we had to take it out for a number of reasons. It was possible that he was ingesting toxins via the locusts that were eating it, the tree was nearly had no leaves left thanks to the locusts, we suspect its roots were rotting since there were fungus gnats everywhere, there was an impaction risk from fallen leaves and we suspect it caused a severe allergic reaction in his owner. Now the tree has been replaced with a plant cone (the metal outdoor things for training plants up) fitted with lots of bendy vines and plastic plants. Will provide a picture when possible, right now can't go in or he'll stop whatever he's doing to come out. It isn't perfect at the moment but we keep tweaking it when we realise he has an issue with it. We are essentially trying to make him a tree so it will take a while to get right.

She has kitchen roll down on the bottom since otherwise he ends up with a pool and it really helps with the humidity. It is changed every day when she lowers the humidity on a night.

He has a very regular routine. His light comes on at 6, at about half past he wakes up stalks and eats a locust. We come down at 7 and see to the other animals then around 9 his owner takes him out. He refuses to toilet in his vivarium and takes this opportunity to defecate. At the moment the urates are fine but the faeces are hard and small though gradually getting back to normal. After this she handles him for a few minutes more or he'll try every trick to not go back in. Once back in she puts his dripper on which he drinks from directly, he will not drink from leaves. After leaving him for a few minutes so he'll drink she sprays his viv to bring the humidity up.

After this she puts in 8 locusts and a few crickets. Before putting in crickets we were temporarily feeding waxworms in an attempt to feed him up as he was, and sadly still is, very underweight. Thankfully he really took to crickets, eating up to 6 a day, and appeared to be eating 3 locusts each day. Once food is in it is rare anyone enters the room, a habit learned for his sake. If he sees someone he thinks he's coming out and will stop drinking or eating in order to beg to be out. He gets one early afternoon visit to check his humidity.

At 4 he is taken out for handling again although she can skip this if necessary. Usually he will get half an hour then get put back in. Then his dripper is put on again so he can drink and everyone stays out for a while again. Then we do the other animals while he constantly watches us, ever hopeful to be out.

Last thing of the day is just before his light goes out she takes the kitchen roll, wrings it out and uses it to soak up any excess water underneath. It's rare there is any now the tree is gone and any that is there comes from the dripper. Then she replaces the old soggy kitchen roll with fresh.

It did seem that the problem was the light, as he seemed to be gradually improving since we replaced it. It had so far gone that there was a very visible difference when the bulb was replaced so dread to think what was happening with the UV.

However, he has stopped eating again and any suggestions on the subject would be appreciated. I will phone the vets when I get a chance tomorrow, however, it may not be practical if we have to take him in as either one is 3 hours away at least. We aren't at all sure how we'd go about that and then if the subsequent weeks of not eating from stress would kill him.

Also one individual suggested maybe he wants variety. I wondered as to how this is possible without flying insects as his owner is squeamish of such things. Also it's not a good time of year to catch moths or spiders, there aren't very many showing up at the moment.
 
:) Hello and welcome to the forums. You did a good job trying to give information but, I did get a little lost. If you could copy and paste the questionnaire below with as much detail as possible and pics if possible it would help you get answers faster. We just tend to get use to this order and can make sure everything was covered.




Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.:


Cage Info:

Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?


Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.


Pictures are helpful
 
I think you said you did replace the UVB bulb correct? And how are you feeding your feeders? are you dusting them with supplements? How? How old is he and how long since he ate? If you fill in above will find these answers faster and any other someone may need to ask.:)
 
I think you said you did replace the UVB bulb correct? And how are you feeding your feeders? are you dusting them with supplements? How? How old is he and how long since he ate? If you fill in above will find these answers faster and any other someone may need to ask.:)

Thank you for the order info I was unaware and noticed the sticky after posting. I was in too much of a hurry as his owner is quite depressed. I'll do that asap but for now quick answers for your questions are, yes we replaced it, the feeders are fed cabbage and carrot for 24 hours before feeding, yes they are dusted but I will need to check with what and how much tomorrow as the supplements are in the same room as the animals and I don't want to disturb them, he is 1 year old, he only stopped eating today but he's only been back to eating for a week and a half, before that he didn't eat for a week and wasn't eating properly for a few weeks before that. We tried to get veterinary help but so far it hasn't been much help.
 
OK. Here is the info laid out better for you lot.

Chameleon Info:

Nosy Be Panther chameleon, male, and about 1 year old. We've had him since early spring
He is usually handled twice a day, once on a Monday due to being home later. First handle is around 9am and lasts around 30mins. He always defecates during this handle and will refuse to defecate if unhandled. Second handle is around half 3 in the afternoon, again for half an hour.
He is fed on crickets and locusts. His owner puts in 8 locusts a day for him and 6-8 crickets. They are put in after his morning mist, half an hour after he has gone back in from handling. The feeders are fed on cabbage and carrot once they arrive, they aren't fed immediately on arrival. We always wait 24 hours.
Supplements wise I know she uses Komodo cricket dust and I believe Exo Terra multivitamin. 50/50 mix dusted every day.
He has a dripper which is turned on after each handling or if he signals he is thirsty while checking on him (by looking at the dripper or tonguing the branch. He is misted twice in the day at the moment. Once after waiting half an hour after morning handling and once in the late afternoon. We usually have to leave the room so he'll take interest in drinking but we do regularly see him drinking. He only drinks directly from the dripper.
The urates appear normal. They are white although not always a great deal there. His faeces are small, dark and hard. They were gradually becoming more normal again but he may revert again. He was tested for parasites on arrival and was clear.
He ate normally once over the initial stress of moving. Then in June he stopped eating for a week but then became normal again. In August he started eating 2 locusts a day until he stopped eating a month ago. He didn't eat for 2 weeks but at first we assumed that it would be like the last time. Then upon the advice of the vets we changed his UV bulb. He has a metal halide lamp though we found out when we changed the bulb the pet shop that gave us advice were wrong. They told us it would last a year and when we read the info we worked out it would only last 3-4 months. After his bulb was changed he started eating again. We fed him waxworms for a couple days as he was skin and bone, while feeding locusts. Then when we put in locusts and crickets he was eating all 8 locusts and 6 crickets every day. It's been about a week and a half since that.

Cage Info:

He is in a vivarium, wood that has been sealed with glass doors. 4ft tall, 3ft wide, 3ft deep
His lighting comes from a Bright Sun 70w Jungle bulb with reflector. He is often higher than the reflector and we intend to change to a T5. The light switches on at 6am though it takes a while to warm up. It isn't at full brightness until 7am. It switches off at 7pm
The temperature is 30C daytime basking spot, the lowest it drops to on a night is 26C. The daytime cool end is 25C. I don't know much about different thermometers, I do know he has a ThermoControl PRO II for the basking spot and his Trixie Digital Thermo/Hygrometer measures the cool end.
He is kept at 75% humidity through the day though this is lowered on a night. Humidity is maintained with a combination of the dripper twice a day when he drinks, hand misting twice a day. His substrate is kitchen roll which helps maintain the humidity. This is changed before his light goes out in order to reduce the humidity. As mentioned before a Trixie Digital Thermo/Hygrometer. It is removed during misting or it doesn't work.
He has a log and plant cone covered in fake vines and plastic plants. He had a fig but this was removed due to problems.
His vivarium is in a corner in the 'dining room'. There are no fans in this room and the air vent is at the opposite end. We go in early in the morning and in the evening to look after the animals. It isn't currently used as a dining room. The top of the vivarium is roughly 6 feet off the floor.
We live in the North East of England, near Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
Uploading the pictures in a few minutes when the computer stops being slow

Current problem:

He didn't eat for a day though since he was back to eating very little. We're talking 2 locusts a day. He is very underweight and the vets agree that it's best to avoid taking him in if it can be helped. An update to this is that he hasn't eaten today due to an injury he has sustained while we were out.
 
Hi,
I think he eats too much. Seeing ribs isn't sign of being underweight, it's normal. I would say, from your description, he could be overweight. It would be best if you could post picture of him.
I would add more variety to his diet and his feeders.
Here is a great blog, I'm sure you will find all the info about feeding:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/
The suplementation schedule most of us use is:
calcium - every feeding
multivitamin - twice a month
calcium with d3 - twice a month
Could you also post a picture of his enclosure? If he doesn't like to say in it, there might be a chance there's something off with it. Are you using something to heat it during the night? They should have lower temperature during nights.
Most uvb light work well for 6 moths, so it's recommended to change it every 6 moths.
 
Pictures of Olli's set up

You can see him trying to get out in this one. He's very friendly.
Picture092.jpg


Picture093.jpg
 
If he likes to be out of his enclosure (lucky you!) you could consider making him a free range. I'm sure he would appreciate it.
 
The enclosure doesn't look very bad, but I would suggest adding more branches and more plants. And with that big enclosure I would get a linear uvb bulb
 
I too would add lots more vines and plants. They like to hide. Do any of your supplements contain d3? I use Komodo cricket dust but it does not contain d3.
 
I can't get a picture of him up right now. I don't have any close ups but it's not the ribs per se I'm worried about. I know normally they show a little but there's also a ridge we believe is his spine and I'm pretty sure that shouldn't be so visible. From August he hasn't eaten more than 3 a day until after his 2 weeks nearly of fasting so I guess he's sensible and regulates food himself.

And it would be great if we could let him be free range but if he's not on us or in his viv he's freaking out XD
 
I can't get a picture of him up right now. I don't have any close ups but it's not the ribs per se I'm worried about. I know normally they show a little but there's also a ridge we believe is his spine and I'm pretty sure that shouldn't be so visible. From August he hasn't eaten more than 3 a day until after his 2 weeks nearly of fasting so I guess he's sensible and regulates food himself.

And it would be great if we could let him be free range but if he's not on us or in his viv he's freaking out XD
Try to post pic of him tomorrow then.
 
The enclosure doesn't look very bad, but I would suggest adding more branches and more plants. And with that big enclosure I would get a linear uvb bulb

I too would add lots more vines and plants. They like to hide. Do any of your supplements contain d3? I use Komodo cricket dust but it does not contain d3.

Thanks, we know about the branches and plants. I said originally, though I accept that wasn't worded brilliant, that it isn't perfect yet. We're on a very tight budget so we'll have to add bit by bit.

The bulb, again yes we are going to swap to a T5 which is a tube and should be better overall.

I don't know about D3, I'll have to check the content of the vitamin supplement tomorrow. I've vaguely heard about this before via his owner but I remember she couldn't get a clear idea about it.
 
Thanks, we know about the branches and plants. I said originally, though I accept that wasn't worded brilliant, that it isn't perfect yet. We're on a very tight budget so we'll have to add bit by bit.

The bulb, again yes we are going to swap to a T5 which is a tube and should be better overall.

I don't know about D3, I'll have to check the content of the vitamin supplement tomorrow. I've vaguely heard about this before via his owner but I remember she couldn't get a clear idea about it.

As mat3o said earlier it is recommended phosphorous free calcium evert feed ( Komodo cricket dust is fine) A multivit twice a month ( I think your exoterra one is ok ) and phos free calcium with d3 twice a month. This is important to prevent mbd.:)
 
As promised pictures of Olli. They don't show off the ridge brilliantly but the second one does show it.

Handling. Please note we are aware of the odd little dip on his back near the base of the tail. He was previously kept with another male chameleon in the shop. They'd just reached puberty and started displaying at each other a few days before we picked him up, he was already paid for at this point. The result was a nasty bite and although he's fine now it's left this dip.
Picture104.jpg


In his viv, I hoped better light would show it.
Picture105.jpg


I also have a video but I'm not sure if this will work or not. He looks a little unsure because he was rather suspicious of the camera and me standing somewhere I normally wouldn't.
 
First of all, he is beautiful!!
He looks healty to me - not underweight, not overweight (though I believe the second one isn't always visible)
But I'm not big expert, so I hope you will get a second opinion.
 
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