Not Eating for a week, has eggs

[Zoe]

Sorry if this should be under breeding- I thought it could go under either... I have a almost 6 month old female veiled, Zoe, who hasn't eaten since last Friday that I know of. Though, she might have eaten a cricket Tues. or Wed. since she pooped Thursday. It was slightly runny, the urate was regular, and there was a tiny bit of orange. There are still crickets in her cage. On Wed. I noticed she had swelling in her legs, joints, and belly. She was laying at the bottom of her cage next to her waterfall (so not sure if she's drinking or not) and not moving around much. She has not taken water from me when I spray her cage or allow it to drop from the top. Zoe also didn't hiss when I picked her up. So I took her to the vet.

The vet did a xray which showed lots of eggs. Zoe also weighed 170 grams, which seemed kind of heavy. The vet said she didn't look eggbound and wasn't ready to have them quite yet. They are infertile. The vet told me to build a egg chamber. She also called in a prescription for some calcium to be on the safe side, but I had to wait a day for it to come in.

I got the calcium on Thurs. and gave her some yesterday and some today. I also gave her 1 ml of baby food since she hasn't eaten and will not drink. (How much should I give her a day?)

Zoe is not digging (I have a 12X6 box in her cage that is filled with Eco terrarium dirt) and she isn't moving around much. She has been closing her eyes and everything I've read sounds like she's eggbound. But the vet said she didn't look ready. I have no clue how long she has been with eggs.

Any ideas on what I should do? Zoe is in my bedroom, so she's alone. She is being handled more than usual since I have to give her the calcium supplement. I'm worried about my baby girl!

 

[Texas Panther Man]

Why did the vet say she wasnt ready? If shes 170 grams she must be full of eggs. Ive got full grown male panthers that dont hit 170grams.

Try some different feeders. Try hornworms or silkworms they are full of water and help with hydration and are nutritous to help her regain her strength.

Try giving her a 30 minute shower. Put a plant in your shower and aim the shower head at the wall and let the spray bounce back on her. Make the water lukewarm not hot. Let her stay in there til you see her drinking and let her drink her fill.

If she keeps closing her eyes and wont go to the bin. I'd go back to the vet and get a shot of oxytocin. If you wit to long oxy wont work though. Then its surgery time.

 

[DavidBuchan]

OK, first things first. On this forum most people are dead against having waterfalls........there are loads of reasons (chams drink from droplets on leaves, not often from waterfalls or bowls, bugs and faeces get in and its a bacteria soup very quickly) . I'm not as hard-line as some, but if you want to keep it you will need to clean it religiously everyday. There is a form which you are asked to fill out to give all the relevant info. if you are asking for help............


Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.


Pictures are helpful

 

[DavidBuchan]

My 8 month old went off her food for about a week before recently laying......but she was moving around, looking for places to dig. Have you considered that she just doesn't like your laying bin? I had success by taking her out, into a big box filled 8" deep with compost mixed with sand. It needs to be damp enough to dig a tunnel to the bottom without collapsing, but not too wet......she needs to be covered for total privacy, but shine a bulb in so she can see, and put a couple of small pinholes so you can spy in and see if she's digging or when she's done.

 

[Zoe]

Thank you so much for the fast replies! The vet said the eggs hadn't calcified enough. You couldn't feel them in her belly on Wed. but you can today.

I have never had a female lizard before, so egg laying is completely new to me. This is also my first chameleon.

We do not have a place here that sells worms other than mealworms. Is there something else I can try? I know if I ordered them online they won't get here until at least Wed. with the holiday.

She is in her bin but not digging. I did dig a small hole for her to sit in, which she has. I hope by giving her the meds and taking her out hasn't disrupted her too much. Do you think she's had enough liquid from the liquid calcium and baby food? I did put her in the sink and let water splash on her for about 10 min today after I gave her the calcium. She was sticky and I didn't want the dirt to stick on her. She didn't open her mouth to drink.

I clean the waterfall every week. So it should be done daily? It's not her primary source of water, more of a back up. So I can ditch it no problem.

Here are some pictures that I just took. Please let me know if you need more.

You can see her leg swelling which worries me. But the xray showed no sign of MBD.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Zoe is a veiled and is almost 6 months old. She has been in my care since she was 4 weeks old in April.
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? I only handle when needed, which isn't often. Though with the medicine, she's been handled every day this week.
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Zoe eats about 50 crickets a week on Monday and Friday. They are gutloaded on cricket food. I am now going to buy bulk and gutload with collard greens.
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? She gets d3 once a week and without d3 once a week. Now she is on 1 ml of calcium a day
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? she has a waterfall (which I can ditch) she also gets misted daily and I allow the water to drip from the top after the mist. Yes, I normally see her drink. This week I have not.
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? It was slightly watery on Thurs. with normal urate and a tinge of orange. Not tested for parasites
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. She has been healthy with no issues until Wed.

Cage Info:

Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Screen 65 Gallons 16.5 in X 30 in. X 28 in.
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? Zoomed 10.0 UVB and a 100 w zoomed night bulb. She is also next to a window for normal daylight lighting. I turn the uvb off at night and back on in the morning. the night bulb always stays on
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? temp gauge 73 bottom and 90 top
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? humidity gauge broke and will be getting a new one asap. Waiting for my paycheck
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? No live plants. I am looking into it now.
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? it is near a window, in my bedroom corner. low traffic. no air vents. Her cage is sitting on a file cabinet
Location - Where are you geographically located? Charlotte, NC

 

[Zoe]

My 8 month old went off her food for about a week before recently laying......but she was moving around, looking for places to dig. Have you considered that she just doesn't like your laying bin? I had success by taking her out, into a big box filled 8" deep with compost mixed with sand. It needs to be damp enough to dig a tunnel to the bottom without collapsing, but not too wet......she needs to be covered for total privacy, but shine a bulb in so she can see, and put a couple of small pinholes so you can spy in and see if she's digging or when she's done.

I just got the bin/box together this morning, so I don't know if she's had time to like it or not. Unfortunately I'm on a huge budget since I wasn't expecting a $200 vet bill and I was laid off from my job 3 weeks ago- not to mention I have a kiddo and other pets. Not good timing!

So I should wet the soil? It has been misted, but isn't thick enough to crawl through a tunnel. Maybe add sand? Are you familiar with the eco dirt? Also, how should I cover? And what about giving her the calcium?

Thank you so much! I am a complete chameleon novice and freaking out! I want to do what is best for my girl.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

Ok for starters your supplements are lacking.
1. Plain calcium No D3 give that at least 2-3 times a week
2. Cacium w/D3 give that 2 times a month
3. Multivitamin Dust: give that 1 or 2x a month

You need to be misting that lady as much as possible. Im talking at least 3or 4 times a day. Producing eggs takes it toll and will cause them to dehydrate.

You need more than crickets. Get those feeders I recomended I dont care if they dont get here til next Fri. At least she'd have a better variety of feeder and thats always a good thing.

Your gutloading is non existent. There are many many threads on this forum on gutloading and on proper foods to give our insects. You need more than collard greens although they are a good start. (apples, oranges, zucchini, sweet potato, mango, carrots, etc....) all need to be offered. Get a good dry gutload also. I use crick crack and I reccomend it to others. Just add some fruits and veggies with that and youve got a solid nutrituous gutload. Crick cRack can also be given to superworms also.

Quit giving her d3 weekly thats a def no-no. If you do that get the gutload corrected an correct the supplements and get on a schedule and stay on there she will improve.

 

[Ace]

maybe try some play sand from home depot pretty cheap 5-10 bucks for a decent bag

she maybe a picky cham and doesnt lie her laying bin.....


if she does get worse, you need a vet to adminster oxytocin, that stimulates them to lay, and i understand money is an issue....


so try the above i mentioned....and put the sand in a big trash bin, and leave her there, with a couplt sticks and a afew vines/leaves....leave her there for day or so, and do not bother her

 

[Texas Panther Man]

I forgot to ask. How is this chameleons grip? I see shes holding on to your hand in the photo. Does she have any grip/strngth left? The reason I ask is if shes already showing signs of getting weak. Your going to have to hydrate and get her stronger before she can even attempt to lay. Its pretty grueling for them to dig a hole and lay and then cover it. It takes them the better part of an afternoon to do that and without hydration that almost impossible for a female.

 

[Zoe]

I'm so glad I found this forum and wish I would have looked for it sooner. You guys are seriously awesome!

Thank you for the gutloading and calcium info! I will get on that asap. My vet had just recommended it. When I talked to the people at the reptile show, the pet store people, and the book I have didn't say anything about it or I would have sooner.

But what do I do in the meantime to get her to eat so she has strength? Keep giving her the baby food and calcium?

I will go mist her again now and keep it up.

What about heat and lighting in a trash bin? Though, I'm confused... leave her alone completely? Or give her the meds and mist 3-4 times while in there?

 

[Olimpia]

Also, she'll need a much bigger laying bin, something much deeper than 6". You're looking at something like 12" x 12" at least, although I use a kitchen trashcan filled up to a food with ecoearth. She will also need a lot of privacy while she's busy, if you keep watching her she won't want to dig.

 

[Ace]

I'm so glad I found this forum and wish I would have looked for it sooner. You guys are seriously awesome!

Thank you for the gutloading and calcium info! I will get on that asap. My vet had just recommended it. When I talked to the people at the reptile show, the pet store people, and the book I have didn't say anything about it or I would have sooner.

But what do I do in the meantime to get her to eat so she has strength? Keep giving her the baby food and calcium?

I will go mist her again now and keep it up.

What about heat and lighting in a trash bin? Though, I'm confused... leave her alone completely? Or give her the meds and mist 3-4 times while in there?

what meds does she need?

i would follow Texas panther mans advice and answer his question about her grip

before putting her in the trash laying bin.......do what you have todo to make her alright as far as preparing her to lay.....like getting her to drink, etc


you can use unflavored pedialyte for some energy and fluids

 

[DavidBuchan]

I just got the bin/box together this morning, so I don't know if she's had time to like it or not. Unfortunately I'm on a huge budget since I wasn't expecting a $200 vet bill and I was laid off from my job 3 weeks ago- not to mention I have a kiddo and other pets. Not good timing!

So I should wet the soil? It has been misted, but isn't thick enough to crawl through a tunnel. Maybe add sand? Are you familiar with the eco dirt? Also, how should I cover? And what about giving her the calcium?

Thank you so much! I am a complete chameleon novice and freaking out! I want to do what is best for my girl.

Timing is everything, right? Children and animals will do this to you........
I would add some sand (preferably coarse, definitely washed). I'm not familiar with the eco dirt myself, but I can make a pretty good guess at the consistency from the pics - you want it damp and easily diggable, that's the only reason to add sand and wet it. Cover it any way that is secure (I used an even bigger box). The only tip for force feeding really is to try to be gentle.......hold the cham firmly, and gently pull at the skin under the throat until the mouth opens...
I would also like to agree with everything Texas Panther Man has highlighted. Try not to panic too much, she looks pretty healthy from here

 

[Zoe]

I forgot to ask. How is this chameleons grip? I see shes holding on to your hand in the photo. Does she have any grip/strngth left? The reason I ask is if shes already showing signs of getting weak. Your going to have to hydrate and get her stronger before she can even attempt to lay. Its pretty grueling for them to dig a hole and lay and then cover it. It takes them the better part of an afternoon to do that and without hydration that almost impossible for a female.

Her grip is weak, though she is still using her claws to grip. She can hold herself up on her vines, but it takes a lot of effort. She also has strength when she wants to stay on the vine when I try to grab her to give her meds. Though she has been in her box since I put it in this morning and hasn't tried climbing out.

So to hydrate.. keep misting maybe 4-5 times a day now? Give her a shower- if she doesn't drink then, should I inject some water in her mouth with the medicine dropper? Should I also give her more baby food- she's had 1 ml today. Maybe 1 ml more?

 

[Texas Panther Man]

I use empty 2 gallon plant buckets that my plants come in from the nursery. If you dont have any of those use a kitchen trash can and just use your normal uvb fixture for her lighting while in the bin. I dont use basking lights while they are in the bin as they are working hard enuff to dig without the added heat of the basking light. I would continue with the daily calcium. Give it to her before you put her in her bin. I would continue to mist her as much as possible when shes not attempting to lay. If you put her in the bin all day for a laying session. when she comes out if she hadnt laid yet. I'd give her a good 15-20 min shower then put her back in her cage for the nite.

If you have some empty plant buckets I would use those and see if she shows any interest in the bin. All my females lay in them and you dont have to disturb them to put them in a trashcan. And its easier to mist etc... thruout the day. I personally use a mixture of about 75% play sand & 25% of organic potting soil. My females lay in that every time.

 

[Zoe]

Timing is everything, right? Children and animals will do this to you........
I would add some sand (preferably coarse, definitely washed). I'm not familiar with the eco dirt myself, but I can make a pretty good guess at the consistency from the pics - you want it damp and easily diggable, that's the only reason to add sand and wet it. Cover it any way that is secure (I used an even bigger box). Give Calcium with no d3 daily by powdering the crickets. The liquid calcium is more tricky. If it were me, I would just drop some on the crickets too and treat it as a bonus - force feeding can be pretty stressful (not just for the cham. new owners just shouldn't have to do it). If she will readily gape or hiss though you can just drop it in when she does.
I would also like to agree with everything Texas Panther Man has highlighted. Try not to panic too much, she looks pretty healthy from here

Ok I'll go find some sand, but in the meantime I'll add some water and look for a bigger box. She has no interest in the crickets in her cage that are dusted. The vet said to give the 1 ml of calcium a day by her mouth until she begins to eat again. It hasn't been hard to get her to open her mouth to drop it in. She will not hiss or open her mouth on her own. I am using the vet's method by allowing someone to hold her as I pull gently on her chin. I then put a cotton swab stick in her mouth sideways (what the vet did) and drop the calcium in, then baby food. She doesn't change colors or seem mad when I've done it.

Thank you for saying she looks healthy! She is so not feeling well though.

 

[DavidBuchan]

Ok I'll go find some sand, but in the meantime I'll add some water and look for a bigger box. She has no interest in the crickets in her cage that are dusted. The vet said to give the 1 ml of calcium a day by her mouth until she begins to eat again. It hasn't been hard to get her to open her mouth to drop it in. She will not hiss or open her mouth on her own. I am using the vet's method by allowing someone to hold her as I pull gently on her chin. I then put a cotton swab stick in her mouth sideways (what the vet did) and drop the calcium in, then baby food. She doesn't change colors or seem mad when I've done it.

Thank you for saying she looks healthy! She is so not feeling well though.

Yeah, I went back and edited my post, because I was being an idiot, and I forgot that she wasn't eating at all........I was hoping I got it done before anyone noticed....

 

[Texas Panther Man]

The weak grip has me worried for her. To be honest if she were mine I'd be telling the vet to give her the shot of oxy. Because when they get too weak then they cant lay normally.

Keep giving her the baby food if she'll eat it. At this point I dont think that will hurt her. Maybe try adding some pedialyte to her water and try giving her that by syringe orally. Theres really only so much you can do. If shes not strong enuff to complete the job naturally she's gonna need help to get those eggs out. Hydrate Hydrate hydrate though thats about your best option other than going in for the shot.

 

[Zoe]

The weak grip has me worried for her. To be honest if she were mine I'd be telling the vet to give her the shot of oxy. Because when they get too weak then they cant lay normally.

Keep giving her the baby food if she'll eat it. At this point I dont think that will hurt her. Maybe try adding some pedialyte to her water and try giving her that by syringe orally. Theres really only so much you can do. If shes not strong enuff to complete the job naturally she's gonna need help to get those eggs out. Hydrate Hydrate hydrate though thats about your best option other than going in for the shot.

I read somewhere that if they are given oxi when the eggs aren't completely calcified than that can cause more harm. Is there any truth to that? I think the vet option is now out until Tues. I don't know of any emergency vets here that see reptiles. Though I can look around.

I will go get some pedialyte and try that as well. Should I do more than 1 ml of baby food or keep it at that? How many ml of water should she be getting total a day?

 

[Ace]

At this point you should not to worry about How much to feed, but just getting the stuff in her body.... I would get her to drink pedialyte mixed with some water , that should give her son energy... That this point fluids is mOre important than food... But do what you can