Nosy Mitsio cross with Nosy Faly?

[joshpritchard]

We have a couple of receptive 13 month old Nosy Faly females, but a reluctant Nosy Faly male that just gets increasingly aggressive in their presence. We've tried everything short of dimming the lights and playing mood music. For the time being we've stopped trying with him and are just hoping he figures things out before our other Faly females become receptive.

Meanwhile we have several beautiful males from other locales that are very eager breeders.

We're debating crossing locales. I realize this is borderline sacrilegious for some members of this forum--and I respectfully acknowledge your position. However, without a willing Nosy Faly male, we are conflicted about having these females instead lay infertile clutches... especially when we we're pretty sure a cross would result in beautiful and unique animals.

We're specifically considering crossing one of our Nosy Mitsio males with one or both of the Faly females. Has anyone seen a cross of these two locales?

We also have eager Nosy Be and Ambilobe males who are paired with females (of their same locale) that are currently gravid, so they're also "available".

Anyone have thoughts/feedback on a potential cross of a Nosy Mitsio male with a Nosy Faly female?

If we do go forward with crossing the locales, we'll of course be completely transparent if/when any offspring are sold. We have 2.4 Nosy Mitsio with 3 females currently gravid and a lot of pure Mitsio eggs incubating--and we certainly don't want to compromise THEIR reputation as pure Mitsios...

 

[joshpritchard]

I realize now this should probably go in the breeding forum, so I'll repost it there.

 

[MollyT]

The most beautiful chameleon I've ever seen was a pic someone posted on here of their cross. I believe it was an ambilobe/faly. I'm going to have to go look it up. I will post the link if/when I find it. Anyway...he was just STUNNING!

 

[MollyT]

I posted on the other thread about one I had seen here. I finally found the thread! He is a faly/ambilobe mix and he is just GORGEOUS! If you do make this mix, I will definitely want on the waiting list for one!

Here is the link to the picture...https://www.chameleonforums.com/crosses-horrible-i-think-not-94211/

 

[SouthCaliChameleon]

I'm very new to all this but.... it seems like people do cross-breed chams, I noticed in some animals people don't like that, but with chams it seem pretty normal.. you can get some cool crosses and colors, just let the person interested your chams know their a mix. It wouldn't bother me a bit.. But i'd like to hear from other breeders and exp keepers..

 

[APajak]

That sound awesome. I would like to see a Nosy Mitsio Ankaramy cross.

 

[SouthCaliChameleon]

I replied on this topic, but it's in the Gen thread....lol

 

[Olimpia]

It's ok if you post a thread in the wrong section, one of us will just move it over. It's better than creating multiple threads in different places, because now I've merged them and the comments make no sense lol.

But in answer to your question, crossing is totally up to you. I will say that it may affect your reputation with the "purists" on here once it comes time to sell your pure locales. But others may be really excited to be able to buy a one of a kind panther, so it comes down to what you think would be best. I have a clutch of crosses right now and will probably keep crossing this line as my own personal project and the nay-sayers be damned, but I'm not looking to become a professional in this hobby so the reasons against doing it may not matter as much to me than they would to you.

 

[joshpritchard]

Thanks everyone.

Thank you Olimpia for moving the thread and giving your insight.

 

[birdlover71]

Crosses

are beautiful...I bet you will have beautiful unique babies....

 

[djfishygillz]

This comment may get some criticism, but here he go. I think falys are a bit overdone/over hyped right now so go for it on that cross. Now for the other side of the spectrum, new people who don't know much about chameleons aren't going to respect that they are crossed/panther chameleons and need to be known as "crosses". They will only respect them as panther chameleons and think of them as all the same. So there's pros and cons to each side I guess. Either way good luck.

 

[chameleoman]

I love crosses. But I also love crosses. BUT it really upsets me when people are selling mixed mutts as pure breds. then u think u buy a pure bred faly female mate it with ur stunning faly male and when eggs hatch u have green or red babies that sucks

 

[burnedrose]

Honestly? it's your pet. You do what you want to do, re: breeding, haters be damned. If they want purebreds, they can breed purebreds. if you want crosses, you breed crosses. We shouldn't be forcing our personal "breeder views" on each other.

I think a Faly/Mitsio cross could be potentially really really cool. I'm imagining a green body, blue bar with red rain. I'd buy a Mitsio/Faly cross if I ever saw one, but I personally find all the Nosy locales really cool (Be, Faly and Mitsio).

 

[joshpritchard]

Thanks everyone for the input. I think we will go ahead and pair one of the receptive Faly's with one of the Mitsios. We'll definitely be clear on the fact that any resulting offspring from them as a pair are in fact crosses and will commit the female to the male going forward; we won't go back to trying to pair her with a [different] Faly male.

FWIW, she actually is supposedly from robmd1's well known Kush line, by way of malibumiles who sold us her along with the male that's currently confused about the ladies (in spite of being "proven"...).

@djfishygillz I generally agree but at the same time am happy with the CH Faly boy I just got from you... we'll probably give him a swing at a female in a couple months. The aggressive male I'm talking about now is the one here: https://www.chameleonforums.com/young-nosy-faly-basking-sun-96694/

 

[chameleonkev]

It's always made me wonder what this cross local would look like as these two are my favourite locals and I keep both but I couldn't ever bring myself to cross my chams but I'd be interested to see yours

 

[dinamite]

This can potentially be a nice cross but what if you get a high female ratio? And about the "proven" breeder that was sold to you, my advice would be to do a BOI at fauna on the people you buy from because you never know when someone is trying to pull a quick one on you. People often claim they have proven, unrelated, or pure chameleons just to make a quick buck. So my advice would be that unless you're buying directly from reputable breeders always be careful. Better to be careful than sorry. Not everyone is like that but there are always a few rotten apples if you know what I mean. Good luck with whatever decision you make.

 

[joshpritchard]

chameleonkev,

If tomorrow goes as planned we'll get to see what the cross of these locales looks like in about a year... unless someone else already has mitsio/faly crosses incubating.

I'm finding this particular cross particularly intriguing given the geography with Nosy Faly and Nosy Mitsio each as their own distinct islands--seems near zero chance of natural hybridization.

 

[joshpritchard]

dinamite -- good points all the way around.

if we end up with a lot of females, we'll probably try to selectively sell them as pets or to breeders specifically interested in this exact cross--perhaps to cross further with Nosy Be/Ambilobe/Ambanja? If we end up with a bunch of unattractive females, we'll keep them as long as it takes to find them good homes...or, depending how the experience goes, maybe we'll just keep them around as a reminder of why it's a bad decision to cross locales.

 

[Lathelia]

I would LOVE to see that cross. So when and if you have them, please, please share with us

 

[azgnoinc]

It's ok if you post a thread in the wrong section, one of us will just move it over. It's better than creating multiple threads in different places, because now I've merged them and the comments make no sense lol.

But in answer to your question, crossing is totally up to you. I will say that it may affect your reputation with the "purists" on here once it comes time to sell your pure locales. But others may be really excited to be able to buy a one of a kind panther, so it comes down to what you think would be best. I have a clutch of crosses right now and will probably keep crossing this line as my own personal project and the nay-sayers be damned, but I'm not looking to become a professional in this hobby so the reasons against doing it may not matter as much to me than they would to you.

And THAT ladies and gentlemen is why Olimpia Rocks!!!!!

dinamite -- good points all the way around.

if we end up with a lot of females, we'll probably try to selectively sell them as pets or to breeders specifically interested in this exact cross--perhaps to cross further with Nosy Be/Ambilobe/Ambanja? If we end up with a bunch of unattractive females, we'll keep them as long as it takes to find them good homes...or, depending how the experience goes, maybe we'll just keep them around as a reminder of why it's a bad decision to cross locales.

I have hybrid babies (68.75% Ambilobe, 16.4075% Ambanja, 7.8125% Nosey Be, 3.125% Sambava, 2.3425% Tamatave, 1.5625% Maroantsetra) right now as do many of the members here on CF that purchased them from me, they were looking for a quality chameleon and the individual beauty that each one brings to the table. Now with that being said I offer a few words of wisdom that I have picked up along the way - MAKE SURE that you keep good records on your pairings and clutches,
DON'T let the babies get mixed up if you have "pure" clutches and hybrid clutches hatching out at the same time...try to time things accordingly so you don't have 60 babies from multiple lines unless you have many more baby enclosures then what you think you'll need, I am now at 7 and will be making at least 3 more this week/weekend...
Broadcast right from the start that they are Hybrids, crosses, mixed breed - whatever term you want to use - the Kammers are probably some of the very best to have done this - most likely because they keep records on everything in so far as their genetic locale percentages go. And last but not least - take TONS of pics, as you are more likely than not to produce some INCREDIBLY unique looking chams- never seen before or possibly again!!
I just crossed a 100% Faly with a 50/50 Maroansetra/Ambilobe - so there are sure to be some real lookers in that clutch (hopefully anyway).
Good luck and I hope to see tons of baby pics in 7-9 months!!