No point in buying from breeders

[chamguy]

congrats. whats a pokemon card?

Where have you been, under a rock?????

I'm a Digimon Fan myself,

 

[sandrachameleon]

I feel alot of people are blinded by how good the sire looks and expect thiers to look the same.

so you seem to be of the miss-understanding that people buy from reputable trustworth breeders simply with the ideal of getting a duplicate of the sire.

if you are buying from a reputable breeder, you are more likely to get an animal of known heritage, with somewhat predicable looks as common within that local. and while the looks of the male AND the female's heritage do play a part, and there are common looks to be expected from pure breeds, that, IMHO, is not soley the reason for buying from a good breeder. There are many reasons, such as : more likely kept the mother in good health (which plays a role in the longer term health of the offspring), babies treated properly and fed / supplemented properly, health assurances of the hatchling, more likely to get the correct sex (if buying young animals) from a person with experience than a newb, likely to look like what it should look like within the norms of the local, support if one has post-purchase questions, ...

 

[sandrachameleon]

Funny how i post one opionion and then everyone starts picking apart my whole project. doubting my husbandry, cham locales etc.

You do understand, do you not, that people can read more than one thread and remember comments you've made in several them? people have concerns for good reason, imho, not purely because of this thread, but because of the bigger picture and what comes across as arrogance and ignorace generally, and a possible disregard for the chameleons beyond money making? Or at least, that's how you sometimes come across to me. I do hope i am wrong.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

You do understand, do you not, that people can read more than one thread and remember comments you've made in several them? people have concerns for good reason, imho, not purely because of this thread, but because of the bigger picture and what comes across as arrogance and ignorace generally?

+1! And there is the real issue. It would be beneficial to try to listen to the good advice offered here.

 

[Red7ny1]

All I know is , if I ever save up for a panther , I'll probably go back to Tiki Tiki and Chad ( and Darci ) . I got my first cham from them and , although she isn't little Mary Sunshine , she's doing great and healthy . I won't buy from this guy for 2 reasons :
1 / Attitude - people skills are severely lacking

2 / Putting dollar signs before the health and care of the chams .
" No i didn't have fecals on them and neither did the person that sold me them because it makes them infertile for 6 months. "

If he cared about the chams , he'd have put off breeding to make sure she's parasite free . No thanks ... wouldn't buy from him no matter how cheap . I'll stick with Tiki Tiki

 

[sandrachameleon]

Can this thread die out now?

Only if we all stop responding to the bait! I'll do so now forward

 

[pssh]

You do understand, do you not, that people can read more than one thread and remember comments you've made in several them? people have concerns for good reason, imho, not purely because of this thread, but because of the bigger picture and what comes across as arrogance and ignorace generally?

Not to mention, when you start off saying something like if you think I'm bashing, I am, you're just asking to be picked apart. Its one thing to start a good discussion about something you have a strong opinion about, but to begin the whole thing by saying one is bashing, it starts a huge "bashing match."

 

[Wykd]

I wondered how long it would take him to post another, "You can't hold me down" comment! lol

No need to hate on the breeders. The people paying the $$ are the people setting the price. I do believe that bloodlines are about more than just trying to get a copy of how the sire looks. There are other factors also, personality, health, genetics, size, sire/dame healthy no issues with mbd, disease malnutrition etc... Its not all about locales or flavors of the month/fad's either, its about the composition. Buyer X may want a red body blue bar ambilobe,and buyer F wants a blue bobdy blue bar ambanja, etc... the color combinations are going to play a part because people have favorite colors simple as that, and that is where looking at the sire can help I think.

A breeders reputation is also something a smart buyer would look into when picking the cham they want to buy. Someone with 5yrs in the hobby is going to warrant a bit higher price than the guy just starting out. Its name recognition and paying ones dues and making a name for themselves that allows them to sell the cham's at that price.

 

[camaleonte82]

i have been watching this post since it went up. i have had alot of opinions but decided to let the more experienced members respond. and i must say. i am so happy by the responses. IMHO judging by not only this thread but all the other posts, the OP is either not very knowledgeable about chameleons or at least doesnt utilize that knowledge to the CHAMELEONS advantage. this is so heartbreaking. but all the advice i have seen given on here makes me feel so proud of our members

 

[reefercheefer]

All I know is , if I ever save up for a panther , I'll probably go back to Tiki Tiki and Chad ( and Darci ) . I got my first cham from them and , although she isn't little Mary Sunshine , she's doing great and healthy . I won't buy from this guy for 2 reasons :
1 / Attitude - people skills are severely lacking

2 / Putting dollar signs before the health and care of the chams .
" No i didn't have fecals on them and neither did the person that sold me them because it makes them infertile for 6 months. "

If he cared about the chams , he'd have put off breeding to make sure she's parasite free . No thanks ... wouldn't buy from him no matter how cheap . I'll stick with Tiki Tiki

You do know that ive only had these for a month...Your right i should have taken possible gravid females to get cleaned. makes sense to me.

 

[Ulrich]

This thread leads to nowhere.

I suggest you start your breeding program. Sell the Chams to whoever wants to buy them and wait for feedback. If people start complaining about your Cham's survival rate, you are out of the game. If they are happy, you are in. Market is way beyond the people in this forum, who DO CARE.

In my experience, there is a serious issue with husbandry of Chams due to lack of experience: Chams are unforgiving because they are some of the most specialized and environment sensitive animals out there. This is why this forum is the most active among reptile forums.

A sulcate tortoise (ok - other end of spectrum) cannot be harmed much. Even if she domes (due to lack of humidity) she still can survive. A cham will die because of lack of calcium, it will die because of lack of uvb, it will die because of lack of humidity, it will die because of bad husbandry. So will its offsprings. Full stop.

 

[drcrossfire]

" No i didn't have fecals on them and neither did the person that sold me them because it makes them infertile for 6 months. "

Was this actually said? Fecals are just a method of examining feces. There is no invasive potion that would affect fertility. It's literally picking up a piece of poop, processing it, and observing it under a microscope.

Is there another method I'm unaware of?

 

[Wykd]

its not the fecal that he is refering to makes them infertile its the parasite treatments. They are going to have parasites they are WC, just a matter of which ones will it have and how bad.

 

[JonRich]

What is questionable? That they came from a WC? it makes it more valuable (to me) actually because its a new bloodline

Questionable, not because they are WC. But the way in which you aquired them (im mainly speaking about your male. I believe you picked him up at an Expo?). How are you sure of his Locale, aside from what a random at an expo stated?

Jon you seem really concerned with my operation. But some statements you make a hypothetical and need to be dealt with at the time they present themselves. I dont know how the babies will turn out. When I say i will sell at 2 months its an estimate and 8 months from now i don't know how i will feel. Basically sell dates are not set in stone. Also I guess i need to stress this because you guys think that I am trying to push my chameleons on you when thats not the case. You are welcome to buy from whoever you wish for what ever reason you choose, its your project,time, and money that goes into it so do what you want. IF you don't like the WC route I took then idk what to tell you.

I'm not so much concerned with your operation, but you posted about it and I can comment. Can't I?

And what hypocritical statements have I made?

And I can only go by what you say, correct? YOU stated that you will sell at 2 months old, I'm just forwarding YOUR statements. You are completely right about one thing though. 8 months down the line you don't know how you will feel. But YOU didn't give yourself 8 months. You are already incubating eggs and now have the responsibility as a good keeper/breeder to care for them and find homes.

Now sell dates are not set in stone?!?! You also mentioned you have space limitations. If you are not selling these animals at an age where they can be housed together, or at least in groups (3-4 months). Then what are you going to do when you have to separate the larger animals that WILLL show aggression towards smaller animals (with the worse case being cannibalism)!

You are also right about not forcing your Chams on me , and I am glad that I now have the facts to not unknowingly buy from you. ( not because you have chams in poor health, but because it's just not what I'M looking for ).

 

[AllFallDown]

Don't feed the trolls!!

If this guy was actually producing a real argument, and not spouting off a bunch of delusions of grandure "I'm going to revolutionize breeding by keeping the best ones for myself and selling off the rest of my non-fecal examined chams for cheap" nonsense, I would be jumping right in. This guy is just pissing people off and wasting everyone's time(not even worth arguing with...). Unless you are enjoying his company, IMHO talking to him is just going to egg him on and continue to frustrate everyone. This guy is clearly smoking some cheap crack or something (or trolling on purpose to fill his time).

I had hoped the thread had run cold last night...

 

[AllFallDown]

Last comment, then I am done.

You do know that ive only had these for a month...

 

[reefercheefer]

Don't feed the trolls!!

If this guy was actually producing a real argument, and not spouting off a bunch of delusions of grandure "I'm going to revolutionize breeding by keeping the best ones for myself and selling off the rest of my non-fecal examined chams for cheap" nonsense, I would be jumping right in. This guy is just pissing people off and wasting everyone's time(not even worth arguing with...). Unless you are enjoying his company, IMHO talking to him is just going to egg him on and continue to frustrate everyone. This guy is clearly smoking some cheap crack or something (or trolling on purpose to fill his time).

I had hoped the thread had run cold last night...

you sporting a troll as your avatar

 

[lysinlight87]

you sporting a troll as your avatar

na, that's a swamp monster.

 

[Trillian]

Nope. Chuck Testa.

 

[lysinlight87]

I'd like to thank google & youtube for explaining chuck testa to me lol