No point in buying from breeders

[Texas Panther Man]

There is no reason people would not buy from me because I dislike the biggest breeders pricing on them. as for the threads i started- i watched the video recommended and just top soil didn't seem suitable that's y i asked for a better mixture. I dont know the basic of breeding yet i have eggs incubating right? Just to prove that anyone can do what so called experts can- produce chameleons. They are still yet to hatch but now its a waiting game.

In all your posts on your ground breaking project you have yet to mention anywhere where you've taken any precautions with your "breeders". I called them "breeders" because you obviously dont treat your chams as pets. From your posts I can see its all about the potential $$ they can make you thats most important to you. Not the chams future health or the health of the potential offspring thats important. If it was you'd have done the necessary steps that all breeders take that care about their chams and their offspring they sell. Thats why I know I'd never buy from you. And if you truly gave damn about the chams in your possesion you wouldnt be in such a hurry to breed them before they'd had a chance to recover from being imported from halfway around the world. You see the goal isnt to produce cheap panthers bro. The goal of an ethical hobbyist breeder is to produce healthy strong offspring and not kill or debilitate the females in the process. What your doing isnt groundbreaking stuff. Your doing what alot of flippers or pet stores do when they import chams. They try to get them to breed quickly before they crash & burn due to poor husbandry and no vet care. Quit thinking you have it all worked out because alot of us here on this site have been doing it alot longer than you and we still learn new tips about husbandry. Take the advice being given and start researching and reading before you cause those chams alot of unecessary suffering.

 

[Wykd]

Dude you keep posting which is amusing... your like that kid in the neighborhood that comes to play when the others are out and is never picked but doesn't get it or why nobody comes to his birthday party aren't you?

Your attitude sucks and your not making any friends with your approach. Life is not a popularity contest but admit it, you posted thinking you were going to cause some revolution or something like Che' but alas you got a shoe tossed at you instead! Not one person has agreed with you in your thread... really hmmm wonder why?

 

[Carlton]

One aspect of this discussion seems missing. What the cham BUYER might be looking for. They might very well be selecting their PET cham from someone who welcomes their interest, shows some joy in working with the chams as individuals, and who obviously respects the cham keeping community.

I don't breed chams for several reasons, but I have taken in numerous rescues and have bought cham species that interest me. The rescues came from vets, pet shops, and clueless buyers who didn't think ahead about the needs of the animal and usually listened to the poor husbandry info passed on from wholesale hacks, bad pet shops, and yes, mass production breeders out for a buck. We do see lots of first time poster threads started by keepers who got bad advice from their breeder!

When I did actually buy a cham it was from someone I felt had the same fascination I did, had the species' best interest in mind and who demonstrated that they cared more about the animal's well being than the money. I am one of those people who just might prefer to pay more for a cbb cham bred by someone who has contributed to the conservation of the species, who has educated anyone who would listen, and frankly, someone who was approachable, polite, knowledgeable, and supportive. How you treat people goes a long long way in this world, hobbyist or not.

I'll be very interested to hear how that future Parsoni does in a cage wrapped in plastic, watered once a day! If of course you can convince someone to sell it into that sort of captive life.

 

[reefercheefer]

As a response to your original thread title aren't you a breeder? I see no point in buying from you, if I know that the WC animals in your care weren't properly de-wormed and had gotten all of the parasites out of them. It doesn't matter if the babies aren't affected, it just shows what kind of chameleon person you are. How would you like it if you were just plucked out of a tree,placed in a cage and not given proper care, when care was available, not like in the wild.All I am saying is that the animal suffers, leaving what ever that had picked up in wild in them. Out there they had no means to cure it, but now they do and it is irresponsible for some one not to try to help them.

just my 2 cents

there is no guarentee it has anything.

 

[JonRich]

So if I buy a male "Ambliobe" from you at the discounted price of $265 shipped you are asking for. Now i plan to breed this male, can you provide 2-3, or more generations of records of this Cham, on both the Sire and the Dame's side? People ask these things.

Can I contact you a week later? No, better yet a year later and discuss this Cham's possible issues? Breeders offer this as a courtesy.

Can I look up previous purchases from your line to see how satisfied with your Chams the public are? Most breeders are veryy active with their buyers and often make you never question your purchase. And if you do they are there to work with you.

If this will be my first Cham, would you be responsible enough to not sell me a 2 month old Cham that's possibly still on Fruit Flies (that I can not source locally)?. Some people don't want to deal with having to feed specialize feeders, the smallest crickets some local shops sell are 1/4"-1/2" crickets.

I'm just asking because you seem like such a please to work with and speak to.

I am in no way saying that you need to provide these privileges for your buyers. But others do and i factor that into the price as well, and will gladlyyyy pay the extra $ for the peace of mind.

_______________________________________

 

[reefercheefer]

In all your posts on your ground breaking project you have yet to mention anywhere where you've taken any precautions with your "breeders". I called them "breeders" because you obviously dont treat your chams as pets. From your posts I can see its all about the potential $$ they can make you thats most important to you. Not the chams future health or the health of the potential offspring thats important. If it was you'd have done the necessary steps that all breeders take that care about their chams and their offspring they sell. Thats why I know I'd never buy from you. And if you truly gave damn about the chams in your possesion you wouldnt be in such a hurry to breed them before they'd had a chance to recover from being imported from halfway around the world. You see the goal isnt to produce cheap panthers bro. The goal of an ethical hobbyist breeder is to produce healthy strong offspring and not kill or debilitate the females in the process. What your doing isnt groundbreaking stuff. Your doing what alot of flippers or pet stores do when they import chams. They try to get them to breed quickly before they crash & burn due to poor husbandry and no vet care. Quit thinking you have it all worked out because alot of us here on this site have been doing it alot longer than you and we still learn new tips about husbandry. Take the advice being given and start researching and reading before you cause those chams alot of unecessary suffering.

I dont plan on getting any more WC after this first time. ill keep updating to let you all know how they are doing without me taking the "proper" steps you would have with yours.

 

[reefercheefer]

So if I buy a male "Ambliobe" from you at the discounted price of $265 shipped you are asking for. Now i plan to breed this male, can you provide 2-3, or more generations of records of this Cham, on both the Sire and the Dame's side? People ask these things.

Can I contact you a week later? No, better yet a year later and discuss this Cham's possible issues? Breeders offer this as a courtesy.

Can I look up previous purchases from your line to see how satisfied with your Chams the public are? Most breeders are veryy active with their buyers and often make you never question your purchase. And if you do they are there to work with you.

If this will be my first Cham, would you be responsible enough to not sell me a 2 month old Cham that's possibly still on Fruit Flies (that I can not source locally)?. Some people don't want to deal with having to feed specialize feeders, the smallest crickets some local shops sell are 1/4"-1/2" crickets.

I'm just asking because you seem like such a please to work with and speak to.

I am in no way saying that you need to provide these privileges for your buyers. But others do and i factor that into the price as well, and will gladlyyyy pay the extra $ for the peace of mind.

_______________________________________

1. Of course I dont have records on WC chams. Neither will anyone else. I will have proof of health by showing the male and female.
2. Sure you can contact me a year later if for some reason your cham is not healthy. I not a vet but i would honor a refund if it was an issue that was in the bloodline.
3. Currently i havent sold any off spring but i have sold about 5 of my chams locally to friends which are still all alive.
4. No i wouldnt sell a baby to someone that cant take proper care for it. I would have put too much time into raising them and grow too attached to send it to a death sentence.

 

[K9Luvn]

Living closer to Chicago I am so very thankful I saw this thread. It is full of wonderful information... and it is that information I look into from people before I buy. Guess I won't be going to Chicago anytime soon.

 

[JonRich]

Living closer to Chicago I am so very thankful I saw this thread. It is full of wonderful information... and it is that information I look into from people before I buy. Guess I won't be going to Chicago anytime soon.

I love your Sig by the way!

 

[JonRich]

Honestly with all that you have posted in this thread, i feel that $150-$200 is too much for to pay for your questionable Chams. Just my opinion.

 

[Zubi]

Living closer to Chicago I am so very thankful I saw this thread. It is full of wonderful information... and it is that information I look into from people before I buy. Guess I won't be going to Chicago anytime soon.

Wait Wait Wait........Chicago is a great town, sure we have idiots like this guy But its still awesome. Also I'm in Chicago........I think me being here makes this town that much better

 

[JonRich]

1. Of course I dont have records on WC chams. Neither will anyone else. I will have proof of health by showing the male and female. The proof in your un-screened WCs? And if you went the extra mile to provide bloodline (which you stated is your goal, your NEW line). Do you hold any value to that?

2. Sure you can contact me a year later if for some reason your cham is not healthy. I not a vet but i would honor a refund if it was an issue that was in the bloodline. So what would happen if down the line within your "bloodline" some of the offsprings start throwing Pinks bodies? Would you still consider them to be pure Ambliobe? Knowing that they stem from WC that YOU can NOT gurantee!What if i invested years into your line to establish mine to find out you have tainted locales in the form of crosses? How do you refund me my time? Do you even care?

3. Currently i havent sold any off spring but i have sold about 5 of my chams locally to friends which are still all alive. Selling to friends is always better because they have an emotional/personal obligation to you. The true test will come when you start selling to people you don't know from a hole in the wall.

4. No i wouldnt sell a baby to someone that cant take proper care for it. I would have put too much time into raising them and grow too attached to send it to a death sentence. Best statement you said this whole thread, but you also stated that you would start selling at 2 months old, how do you acess whos going to take proper care of the Chams they purchase from you?

just my opinion..

 

[K9Luvn]

Wait Wait Wait........Chicago is a great town, sure we have idiots like this guy But its still awesome. Also I'm in Chicago........I think me being here makes this town that much better

Yes Chicago is awesome... has some great people there too... just will have to skip over this so called breeder. JMO

 

[carol5208]

Yes Chicago is awesome... has some great people there too... just will have to skip over this so called breeder. JMO

I'm from Chicago!!!

 

[Zubi]

Do u still live here carol?

 

[RealIzeRecognIze]

I don't think anyone wants your chams man.

 

[slim pik]

there is no guarentee it has anything.

There is no guarantee it doesn't have parasites.Yes they do carry parasites in the wild but now there in a captive enviroment(research).A fecal exam is relatively inexpensive and you'll know for sure.If it turns out that they have a parasite load treat it.It's not only in the chameleons best interests but yours as well.Try a different approach, people are generally helpful and nice.

 

[pssh]

So lets say your chameleons have coccidia (which you dont know evause you havent had fecals done.) What happens when you spread it to the babies by touching the adults then the offspring? Are you going to be paying for all the fecals and vet bills that you costed your customers?

 

[chamguy]

Just some experince I've had with WC,

I have kept both CB and WC chameleons ( as well as other wc reptiles) and for some reason it is said on here that the worst that can happen is they are not as "social, and carry parasites". For one you a pulling the animal out of the wild, so now it has to acclimate to a new enviorment with new variables.

From my experince they are MUCH harder to acclimate. I have had some females that never did acclimate and the slightest issue can cause the to clam up and stop eating. After these experinces, I will not keep another WC for a long time.


I may have restated what was already mentioned, just wanted to give my 2 cents.

 

[JackP308]

Not all breeders are high priced. You're paying for the piece of mind and flawless guaranteed animal when you pay high dollar. When you want to gamble on WCs sure you might get a gem and very well might get the worst case scenario. Its that a gamble.