Nine days without eating

[Catahoula]

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I'm very concerned about our panther chameleon. As of this weekend, he is approximately 9 weeks old and from what I can tell, hasn't eaten in the 9 days since we have had him. I posted any earlier thread with concerns about him, but after checking and rechecking his cage thought everything would be ok. For more information from that thread, please go here...

https://www.chameleonforums.com/baby-panther-home-less-then-48-hours-82578/

I read in another thread that if a baby doesn't eat that it's vision becomes fuzzy, rendering it unable to hunt. Do you think that is the case with our little boy?

I really don't know what to do and don't want to just watch him die...Please help if you can.

 

[ataraxia]

So you still have not seen any droppings? Did the past owner have substrate in the cage?

I know you have stated you are giving him feeders that the prvious owner was giving him...If he has not poo'd with you more than likely he was not eating with the previous owner either. Make sure the feeders are no bigger than the size of the distance between his eyes. This can be crucial. Some will not take a feeder if it is to big or small. Next i see that you have a automated system. This is great but i highly recommend you spraying his cage manually to make sure you see him drink. young chameleons need water and lots of it. If they do not like your techniques or way that you deliver. This will in return cause a lack in appetite. Not saying this is definitely the case here but you are alarmed and this is just what i would do. I would also put more appropriate sized vines throughout the cage. Not string

Note if you decide to manually spray him: Dont mist him directly. Let the outside of the mist pattern from the sprayer fall upon him. Do this for like 45 seconds to a minute. Walk away from the cage for a few minutes then come back and mist the same way for another 2-3 minutes. Also spray from the top of the cage so that it drips down.
Put his cage as high up in the room as you can and no lights on at night.,

 

[Elizadolots]

I think the vines and "branches" look fine for the chameleon's size. I do agree that the question really needs to be: is there poop?

Some people never see their chameleons eat. I've had one for 18 months that I've seen eat 4 times. Yes, I count...I can do that because I have more fingers left...

You might try setting up a pooping opportunity. Set him up in a shower for 20 minutes or set him in the sun for a half an hour, make sure you'll be able to find any poop.

 

[djfishygillz]

Weight check method

Buy a gram scale from a cooking store and place the cup on the scale so it is set to 0, then set the chameleon in the cup and get the chameleons weight. Then check the weight daily and you will know for sure what is going on. I do this with ALL of my chameleons nearly every other day to check on health. I believe it is a great method and I HIGHLY recommend you do it. I have seen (like others have said) not seen chams eat but when I check their weight they are growing.

 

[Elizadolots]

Buy a gram scale from a cooking store and place the cup on the scale so it is set to 0, then set the chameleon in the cup and get the chameleons weight. Then check the weight daily and you will know for sure what is going on. I do this with ALL of my chameleons nearly every other day to check on health. I believe it is a great method and I HIGHLY recommend you do it. I have seen (like others have said) not seen chams eat but when I check their weight they are growing.

GREAT idea!

 

[Catahoula]

So you still have not seen any droppings? Did the past owner have substrate in the cage?

I know you have stated you are giving him feeders that the prvious owner was giving him...If he has not poo'd with you more than likely he was not eating with the previous owner either. Make sure the feeders are no bigger than the size of the distance between his eyes. This can be crucial. Some will not take a feeder if it is to big or small. Next i see that you have a automated system. This is great but i highly recommend you spraying his cage manually to make sure you see him drink. young chameleons need water and lots of it. If they do not like your techniques or way that you deliver. This will in return cause a lack in appetite. Not saying this is definitely the case here but you are alarmed and this is just what i would do. I would also put more appropriate sized vines throughout the cage. Not string

Note if you decide to manually spray him: Dont mist him directly. Let the outside of the mist pattern from the sprayer fall upon him. Do this for like 45 seconds to a minute. Walk away from the cage for a few minutes then come back and mist the same way for another 2-3 minutes. Also spray from the top of the cage so that it drips down.
Put his cage as high up in the room as you can and no lights on at night.,

There have been droppings in the cage, so I guess that is a good sign.

The petstore was feeding him small crickets, which we did see him eat at the store. I think he was too stressed to eat for the first couple of days and by that time we had run out of the small crickets. When we went to a near by petstore, rather then the one we purchased him from, to get crickets they were a little bigger then the first ones. But I guess that has made a big enough difference to him.

Today we are going back to the original store we got him from to retrieve the smaller crickets that we have seen him eat before. I think we will also pick up some worms. Since they are more stationary, it should be easier to tell if he's eating them.

 

[Catahoula]

I think the vines and "branches" look fine for the chameleon's size. I do agree that the question really needs to be: is there poop?

Some people never see their chameleons eat. I've had one for 18 months that I've seen eat 4 times. Yes, I count...I can do that because I have more fingers left...

You might try setting up a pooping opportunity. Set him up in a shower for 20 minutes or set him in the sun for a half an hour, make sure you'll be able to find any poop.

There has been poop since we brought him home.

I guess my question is, how do you know how much handling is appropriate. We've been so afriad to touch him, but some of the suggestions we are getting require handling like moving him to the shower, placing him outside, or weighing him to see if he's gaining.

What's the best way to go about determining how much handling he is willing to put up with?

 

[Catahoula]

Buy a gram scale from a cooking store and place the cup on the scale so it is set to 0, then set the chameleon in the cup and get the chameleons weight. Then check the weight daily and you will know for sure what is going on. I do this with ALL of my chameleons nearly every other day to check on health. I believe it is a great method and I HIGHLY recommend you do it. I have seen (like others have said) not seen chams eat but when I check their weight they are growing.

Believe it or not, I do have a scale and it even has the "tare" function to zero it out when you place something on it. I use it to weigh my guinea pigs monthly to ensure they are healthy. I never thought to use it for the chameleon as well.

Is handling every day or every other day acceptable to get a weight reading for him?

 

[Elizadolots]

I don't know that I would weigh him every day. I would think once a week would make more sense. Once you know he is, indeed, growing, then you could bump that back to every 2 weeks.

If you can take him out of the enclosure without grabbing him, meaning he walks onto your hand on his own, then taking him out daily to put him in the shower or check a medical condition is just fine. Some chameleons even adjust well to being out of the cage, on the human for extended periods of time...it just depends on the chameleon. So, be patient, be calm and don't be afraid to do what you need to do with him. You might find he's okay with being handled.

I think you're right to get the smaller crickets. I don't know if ordering cricket online is going to work for your situation, but if it does (maybe you have other reptiles that eat crickets?) you'll find that's a great way to ensure you get the right size crickets.

Remember, if he's pooping, he's eating even if you never see him do it. Mine always play statue when they realize I'm looking at them. Even if they are in the process of hunting they stop and wait for me to go away.

 

[Trillian]

You've had some really excellent advice here, and I really can't add anything useful, but maybe a little reassurance. I rescued a skinny Senegal chameleon a few weeks ago and have been really worried about her ever since. She has taken waxworms from my hand a couple of times, but these aren't nutritious enough for them at all, they are like junkfood, but tempting, for them and for us for that reason!

My Senegal is still fairly dehydrated, so I take her out of her viv once or twice a day to shower her, which she really doesn't like. She doesn't climb onto my hand, but happily perches once she's puffed up at me a bit to let me know she's miffed. She drinks from the shower now too, which reassures me.

Aside from the couple of things she's taken from my hand, I have yet to see her eat, like Elizadolot's experiences, she hates being watched. The only reason I know she's eating is that the 3-4 crickets I put in her viv each day aren't accumulating anywhere other than in pieces in her poop. And I once walked in and surprised her and she had a cricket's butt hanging out of her mouth. Very attractive.

If I was pressed, and hadn't seen the evidence, I would swear she wasn't eating at all, but she clearly is. If he's fairly active, doesn't sleep during the day and has appropriate access to water I wouldn't worry too much. I agree with weighing too. Depending on where you got him it might be worth a trip to the vet to check him over, I did this with mine, it cost me $175 total for the examination, poop check, diagnosis and treatment of hookworms. I was worried about spending money on a chameleon that I was convinced would probably die anyway, but the reassurance I got from taking her to a knowledgeable vet was worth that price alone.

 

[shackleford]

Thank you everyone for the kind words!! (I'm the boyfriend)

I went home on my lunch break and was determined to see him eat, so I released a handful of the smallest crickets we had, and stayed as still as possible to see if he was going to go after them. He stalked one from across the enclosure and was successful!! Words really cannot describe how relieved and happy we are.

The way my enclosure is designed I was afraid the smallest crickets could escape or that Copernicus was too small to catch them in that huge space. He was in a smaller glass terrarium at the store and I was actually considering buying him a smaller enclosure this afternoon.

Last week my order of 100 small crickets, 150 small silk worms, and 100 small phoenix worms from Mullberry farms all died in the mail. We live in Florida and I even called the post office to make sure they held the package; well they sent it out anyway. It sat in a metal mailbox in 90+ degree heat and cooked them all. I re-ordered everything from Small feeders in Alpharetta GA on Friday and they are shipping FedEx with a cold pack and should be here today or tomorrow.

We'll get some smaller crickets tonight at the exotic pet store to hold him over. I'm also going to seal the spots in his enclosure that I thought the smallest crickets were escaping through. (Although now I'm pretty sure he probably ate those)

I really can't thank everyone here enough for their concern and kind words.

 

[Elizadolots]

Hi, boyfriend. When you do get to see them eat it's pretty thrilling. I'm glad he gave you that reassurance.