New Veiled, need advice..

[JenniferAlicia]

Well when I got her she looked fantastic! No bowed legs or arms, great color, straight spine, great hold... even the last day I had her she had a great hold and was calm when she was climbing on me, she really was a great girl but a bit of misfortune.

She never got lethargic just could not get around... no vets around here would take her that is why I went to the pet store, they have a special agreement with a vet. . .

The most recent picture is where she was on the wall that is as straight as she got for the most part...

 

[justjumpit621]

I really don't see much in the form of MBD, so I do think it may have been neurological. You should see if your vet will do a necropsy to determine what the cause was.

 

[JenniferAlicia]

You are describing classic signs of mbd. She should have gone to the vet on week one for a calcium booster injection, but would not have guaranteed it would save her. Knowing how to spot a healthy chamber is important. I am thinking your herp store is less than experienced with chameleon.

Like I said though she was fantastic when I got her but it went down hill fast, but they had her in all the wrong setups since she was so small they didnt want to risk a fall so it was poor set up. That is what is good about this new one, they have only had her for two weeks compared to mine which they had for three months
That is what I thought but since her veil was hard and well pointed, and her legs were straight they thought it may have been something else.

 

[JenniferAlicia]

I really don't see much in the form of MBD, so I do think it may have been neurological. You should see if your vet will do a necropsy to determine what the cause was.

They wont since the store is paying for it. It may have been part neurological but it was also physical. She was in pain and her body was contoured.

 

[justjumpit621]

They wont since the store is paying for it. It may have been part neurological but it was also physical. She was in pain and her body was contoured.

That would be neurological. Any malfunctions in the neuroreceptors in her brain and they would send electrical surges to her body, causing it to contort. Neurons in our brain are what power everything in our body, including muscles. If those muscles are being constantly told to contract they cause her to convulse, causing the pain, arching, and fast tail movements.

 

[Syn]

Is anyone else seeing that gular lump? (Gular edema?)

 

[justjumpit621]

Is anyone else seeing that gular lump? (Gular edema?)

I think she was just being a little nasty girl in that pic Leo does the same thing when he gets fired up.

 

[Elizadolots]

Looping back to the current animal.....

JenniferAlicia wrote:

This is the one reason I never joined a forum I get so much mixed advice,*

Yeah...it is a challenge. Ultimately, you need to listen to your instincts, but all the opinions you get here—however varied—will help you. Somethings will feel wrong, somethings will feel right. I do suggest that you weigh those people who are a) moderators and/or b) have lots of “great advice” badges to the right of their names (like Julirs, that's the perfect example) much more heavily than you weigh the advice of others.


And:

What I do no realize is how they can live in the wild with ground substrate, but I am supposed to remove mine the issue is if I remove the substrate I will have to remove my live plants...

As I think someone has said, the live plants can be made safe. Yes, it's true that no one takes out the nasty substrate in the wild...but we have no statistics on how many chameleon babies born in the wild live to adulthood. When I see an animal laying 20, 40 even 80 eggs, I think that an extremely high percentage of those animals do not live to see adulthood. Your animal is under your protection and so, can be spared the dangers of ingesting substrate. You don't need your baby to face the poor odds of survival that “being in the wild” represents.

 

[Julirs]

I am just now looking at the pictures on the big screen (was on my phone last night) and I do not see any outward signs of MBD as i would expect to see. It does look a little dehydrated. What did fecal look like prior to death? What was your misting routine and are you using a digital thermometer? Infrared light is a no-go also-chams associate white light with basking heat. Could it have been hotter than you think in that glass cage?
Since you live in NC, and if you truly want to be sucessful, get a screen cage, set it up properly, and get a healthy Veiled from a member or sponsor here.

 

[Julirs]

As I think someone has said, the live plants can be made safe. Yes, it's true that no one takes out the nasty substrate in the wild...but we have no statistics on how many chameleon babies born in the wild live to adulthood. When I see an animal laying 20, 40 even 80 eggs, I think that an extremely high percentage of those animals do not live to see adulthood. Your animal is under your protection and so, can be spared the dangers of ingesting substrate. You don't need your baby to face the poor odds of survival that “being in the wild” represents.

Well said Eliza!

What happens in the wild is always not advantageous for the animal.

Captivity does not equal natural habitiat.

 

[JenniferAlicia]

I am just now looking at the pictures on the big screen (was on my phone last night) and I do not see any outward signs of MBD as i would expect to see. It does look a little dehydrated. What did fecal look like prior to death? What was your misting routine and are you using a digital thermometer? Infrared light is a no-go also-chams associate white light with basking heat. Could it have been hotter than you think in that glass cage?
Since you live in NC, and if you truly want to be sucessful, get a screen cage, set it up properly, and get a healthy Veiled from a member or sponsor here.

I would love to get one from a member or a sponsor, but right now my husband wants to take this new baby they are giving us, so I am going to check him/her out this afternoon. The baby will get a new cage but it will still have a glass front and back as I want her to be more protected than just screen can give (I hope you understand where I am coming from.) There will be full screen sides though. We keep our cage in our dining room on her own table. It is up against a wall, no near any windows or vents. During the day our home temp is 74-75 and at night it is 72 - 73.

Now I am going to take everyones advice and remove the basking lamp to lower the temps until winter. We keep our home quite chilly in the winter so a basking lamp will be required maybe an infrared for nights. Then during the cold winter days I can always use a white basking light I have from a winter rescued turtle that I just released this spring. There are three thermometers in the cage, one under the basking lamp, regular light, and bottom of the tank where it is unaffected by the lights. There is also a humidity gauge.

Well as far as I could tell there were no signs of dehydration as soon as she got ill a put the drip on more often, she was misted 3 - 5 times a day according to the humidity in the tank. The only time she would physically drink (since I first got her this started) is when she was out side and I would mist her tree till it was dripping. I guess I took the blame from whatever was wrong and blamed MBD because of her curved spine, lack of balance, kinky tail, and just over all behavior. I hope not to ever go through that again, it broke my heart, I hate having any animal in pair, it is not fair to them.

Her fecal matter looked good typical color, consistency, and semi-moist. There was only one time I was nervous which was the stores were out of her small crickets so I got her some larger ones for one day and they did not process as well as I would have hoped, I could still see a bit of the cricket.

 

[JenniferAlicia]

Is anyone else seeing that gular lump? (Gular edema?)

I do not think that was the case, I think more or less she was just pissed at the world. TO get her out of her cage we have to remove her and her plant then she was ok, but she was VERY upset, biting, hissing, drab colors and everything at the moment i took her picture

 

[justjumpit621]

No infrared lights ever, they can see them very well and it will keep her up at night causing more problems. You absolutely NEED a basking light, this is how they digest their food, and also a linear tube UVB, reptisun 5.0 is the safest bet. A glass terrarium, even just on the front and back, is not actually "protecting" her. Veiled chameleons are arboreal and need good airflow and a completely screened cage. Reptariums are pretty cheap and good quality, I just bought a 175 gallon one for $63. I suggest you take EVERYONE"S advice on here as they give it to you, and if you are worried about varying advice, take what is most frequently said. Here is a picture of my veiled chameleons set up, which is standard for veileds. Yours should be similar just a little smaller because females do not need as much space:

Also, make sure it is a female, males have small spurs on their hind heels. Also, females cycle infertile eggs regularly so you would need to keep a lay bin in the cage with her of 50/50 washed playsand and coconut fiber, moist but not wet

 

[JenniferAlicia]

No infrared lights ever, they can see them very well and it will keep her up at night causing more problems. You absolutely NEED a basking light, this is how they digest their food, and also a linear tube UVB, reptisun 5.0 is the safest bet. A glass terrarium, even just on the front and back, is not actually "protecting" her. Veiled chameleons are arboreal and need good airflow and a completely screened cage. Reptariums are pretty cheap and good quality, I just bought a 175 gallon one for $63. I suggest you take EVERYONE"S advice on here as they give it to you, and if you are worried about varying advice, take what is most frequently said. Here is a picture of my veiled chameleons set up, which is standard for veileds. Yours should be similar just a little smaller because females do not need as much space:

Also, make sure it is a female, males have small spurs on their hind heels. Also, females cycle infertile eggs regularly so you would need to keep a lay bin in the cage with her of 50/50 washed playsand and coconut fiber, moist but not wet

Alright so big question, how to I keep them warmer in the winter if I can not use a infrared light at night? I can not keep a white light on day and night the poor baby wont sleep... Our home gets very cold in the winter well below 65 and to keep our house above that our heating bill will be insane, so any suggestions?

 

[beeze]

Alright so big question, how to I keep them warmer in the winter if I can not use a infrared light at night? I can not keep a white light on day and night the poor baby wont sleep... Our home gets very cold in the winter well below 65 and to keep our house above that our heating bill will be insane, so any suggestions?

Get a ceramic bulb for when it drops below 65 in your house.

 

[Julirs]

As far as lighting you need a flourescent linear Reptisun 5.0, and a clamp lamp with a 60 watt bulb. Keep the basking spot at about 85 degrees. Is the new one you are getting male or female?

You don't need heat at night unless temps drop below 60.

 

[smackey]

I know you have gotten mixed advice but here is some more for you.

You don't have to have a completely screen cage. Glass on 2 sides is fine and some people even have good luck with fully glass exoterra terrariums. The advantage of glass is humidity and temperature control. You can get good airflow with 2 sides open, in fact you might get more due to the way air moves through a "tunnel". Look at this thread for more information on glass. from more respectable people.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/everyone-who-knows-you-cant-keep-chameleons-glass-31937/

Nothing with chameleons is set in stone and it is ever evolving. Thats one reason you will get mixed advice. In 20 years people will probably be laughing at most of what we are trying with chameleons today.

 

[Elizadolots]

Here's an example of the "ceramic bulb" you can get. It fits into a regular light fixture and just gives off heat. There are also small space heaters you can get that are extremely safe and can maintain heat at the temperature you desire. Here's some information on those. It's important that night be cooler than day, so just try to take the edge off the extreme cold, not keep the area warm.

 

[Julirs]

I know you have gotten mixed advice but here is some more for you.

You don't have to have a completely screen cage. Glass on 2 sides is fine and some people even have good luck with fully glass exoterra terrariums. The advantage of glass is humidity and temperature control. You can get good airflow with 2 sides open, in fact you might get more due to the way air moves through a "tunnel". Look at this thread for more information on glass. from more respectable people.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/everyone-who-knows-you-cant-keep-chameleons-glass-31937/

Nothing with chameleons is set in stone and it is ever evolving. Thats one reason you will get mixed advice. In 20 years people will probably be laughing at most of what we are trying with chameleons today.

Go back and look at that article. Do you see Veiled mentioned in there? The half glass half screen cage will work just fine. There is not an Exoterra large enough for a Veiled.

 

[justjumpit621]

I know you have gotten mixed advice but here is some more for you.

You don't have to have a completely screen cage. Glass on 2 sides is fine and some people even have good luck with fully glass exoterra terrariums. The advantage of glass is humidity and temperature control. You can get good airflow with 2 sides open, in fact you might get more due to the way air moves through a "tunnel". Look at this thread for more information on glass. from more respectable people.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/everyone-who-knows-you-cant-keep-chameleons-glass-31937/

Nothing with chameleons is set in stone and it is ever evolving. Thats one reason you will get mixed advice. In 20 years people will probably be laughing at most of what we are trying with chameleons today.

where she is from it gets very hot and humid, glass terrariums are recommended only for very cold climates like europe to keep temps and humidity up. For NC, a screen would be best for the veiled but if you feel there is adequate air flow in the half screen half glass without cooking your little baby by all means go for it. But if there are any signs of an upper respiratory infection I would change to all screen ASAP.