New Veiled - Dehydrated/malnourished

[BB Feeders]

I purchased this vailed chameleon from a local pet store. I shouldn’t have but I let me heart over run my logic. Im almost 100% sure he is dehydrated and maybe malnourished too. We took him home and put him in his cage and then did a 10-minute misting session. He drank like there is no tomorrow and then pooped/peed orange with a sperm plug. He didn’t want to eat though. We have a cup with food and I’ve tried putting some on the leaves around him and with tongs, he just doesn’t seem interested at all. He seems a little listless and isn’t moving around – just sits in the basking spot and doesn’t move…. Plan to take him to the vet tomorrow if they can get him in. Is there anything else that I can do? Advise?

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon
  • Male, Velied Chameleon, I think he is about 4 months old. He’s been in my care for 3 days.
• Handling –
  • At the moment, we are not handling him at all – do not want to stress him out even more.
• Feeding –
  • He hasn’t eaten since I got him. Offered crickets so far. Will try silkworms, Dubia and a few others tomorrow when stores and post is available.
• Supplements –
  • He hasn’t eaten since we got him but I keep doing calcium and multivitamin on and off. When he starts eating I'll do calcium every day, and switch between multivitamin and calcium with D3 once a week -until he has grown up.
• Watering –
  • He has a dripper that goes full time. And I’ve been misting 3 or 4 times a day for about 5 mins with a hand mister (warm water). Sometimes I can get him to drink then, but not always.
• Fecal Description –
  • Orange, with white sperm plug.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type – Combo – screen top, vent in the front, betonplex for sides and glass for the front. 130 tall, 70 deep, 100 wide.
• Lighting – JBL T8 – 18w solar. I also have a reptisun 5.0 in the closet. And a 70w normal bulb for the basking spot.
• Temperature – Basking 31C, middle 22C, bottom 20C
• Humidity – about 60% to 70% most of the time.
• Plants – Have a few live plants.
• Placement – in the office, low traffic.
• Location – Netherlands

Cage -




First day photo-


(Night photo)



Today-

 

[Virgil1972]

I would say he is definitely dehydrated. I would just keep the long misting sessions going. If you get a fecal save it for your vet and have is tested for parasites and have the vet check for mbd. I don't see and bents legs or anything that indicates mbd but he could have it in the early stages since he wasn't taken care of properly.

 

[BB Feeders]

Here is a video of him drinking just now after I misted him. Maybe you can see more then in a photo. At first he was running away from the water and then he started drinking. The burnt leaf happened before I got him. When I was testing out the lights and cheeking the settings.

 

[ZacharyLeesWife]

Poor little guy is very dry! Mist like crazy, and showers might be stressful but the positive outweighs the negative right now. You can't get horn worms where you are which is a shame, but try to get anything soft bodied in him that you can get your hands on. He's thin, some wax worms might get himy eating. They're an almost universal favorite, junk food for sure but better than nothing in a skinny dry little cham.
Side note- You sure about the "he"? I can't see back feet, but that looks like a little girl to me.

 

[Chameleomom]

Hornworms will help hydrate him and some dubia to get some weight on if you can get those there. Try and take a close up pic of the back feet so we can make sure it is indeed a he

 

[Peachypink]

The casque looks male to me and in the nighttime photo I see spurs.

I agree with getting some wax worms. My Hansel that I just took in was pretty underweight and I couldn't get him to eat anything the first few days to almost a week. But he finally ate wax worms. Then about a wee after that started eating silks and a few dubia. He went from 75g on Dec 11th to 86g just 2 days ago.

definetly take in a fecal and check for parasites asap. He may need just a few days to get settled and soak up some heat. Hydrating will make him feel better too. Being skinny like that you don't want him to go too long and might want to get some carnivore care just to get some nutrition into him if he won't even eat wax worms.

 

[Angelwolf]

Awe! Poor baby! Bless your heart for taking him in, and trying to save him! In the video, he actually looks slightly better than some of the pictures you posted. It's very encouraging that he is so eagerly drinking. I think after he gets a little moisture in him, he will begin eating for you. Just keep trying, and make sure you're gut loading to the best potential. That way, even the little bit he may eat will pack the most benefit. Good luck with him! It sounds like he is in great hands, now!

 

[ZacharyLeesWife]

The casque looks male to me and in the nighttime photo I see spurs.

I agree with getting some wax worms. My Hansel that I just took in was pretty underweight and I couldn't get him to eat anything the first few days to almost a week. But he finally ate wax worms. Then about a wee after that started eating silks and a few dubia. He went from 75g on Dec 11th to 86g just 2 days ago.

definetly take in a fecal and check for parasites asap. He may need just a few days to get settled and soak up some heat. Hydrating will make him feel better too. Being skinny like that you don't want him to go too long and might want to get some carnivore care just to get some nutrition into him if he won't even eat wax worms.

I see the spurs, and stand corrected!

 

[BB Feeders]

Poor little guy is very dry! Mist like crazy, and showers might be stressful but the positive outweighs the negative right now. You can't get horn worms where you are which is a shame, but try to get anything soft bodied in him that you can get your hands on. He's thin, some wax worms might get himy eating. They're an almost universal favorite, junk food for sure but better than nothing in a skinny dry little cham.
Side note- You sure about the "he"? I can't see back feet, but that looks like a little girl to me.

I'll try anything to get him eating.. I should be getting some stuff in tommrow and the store are open so I should have something ether way.

 

[Andee]

I definitely suggest focusing on rehydrating at the moment. He won't show much interest in most food until he is rehydrated to at least a decent level. Right now he is where I would consider vet intervention for all my rescues no matter the possible outcome on the stress levels. Intrevenous fluids can be absorbed faster and easier than the amount he can drink in my opinion. Even just half a cc will help. However for most people with inhome care this is near impossible with chameleons because they don't have easy to inject spots like certain other reptiles and mammals. I have done home fluid care for leos and small pocket pets/cats, that got declined so quickly that taking them to the vet would kill them from the stress before any help could happen. However with him I would risk it. But in my opinion there is a lot you can do at home to help him with rehydration in the mean time. Misting with hot water, so the mist comes out warm even far away, is best to get a drinking response quickly. I recommend mistinh sessions for this boy at no shorter than 20 minutes and about two hours a part. If you are really worried about him eating and also getting fluids in him at the same time, get organic baby food and an oral syringe that is only one cc. I would stick mostly to veggies with the baby food or veggies mixed with fruits. No animal proteins for sure. Give him no more than .5 cc in one sitting place the tip of the oral syringe into his throat so he doesn't aspirate at all and hold his head still a bit so he swallows well and doesn't spit any out. I wouldn't so more than .5 until his eyes and urates are better but the extra food and moisture may help with his hydration levels.

 

[jajeanpierre]

My goodness he looks in rough shape! On the bright side, he seems quite alert.

@Boxlady I agree with @Andee--your biggest concern is hydration. He's drinking so much, I would be inclined to use something with electrolytes. Don't worry about food--he can't digest anything until he is hydrated. If I were going to feed him anything like baby food, I think I would give much less than .5mls. If he has been starved (and his skinniness might just be severe dehydration on top of him being thin), overfeeding will overwhelm his system.

Keep him as wet as in your video.

A bout of severe dehydration can cause kidney damage that won't show up for years. Keep that in the back of your mind for the rest of his life--treat him as if his kidneys are compromised when you are medicating him since most medications are damaging to kidneys to begin with.

Good luck.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

You got about 72 hrs at a educated guess before he kicks off. Its only hope is a gradual rehydration like others are saying. Keep the cage somewhat moist (think three days of rain in the wild) and keep the misting light. I wouldn't worry about food until the eyes fill back out a little (by day 3 or 4 if the hydration works).

Good luck.

 

[Andee]

In my opinion he has more than 72 hours even if he doesn't rehydrate to his fullest or even half way within that time. I have had rescues with me who came to me like him in the hydration department, and honestly one of them really didn't get that hydrated as I'd like within the time spans I was hoping. However he did fine. He just took longer. In my opinion it really depends on HOW actually lethargic he is. In the video he is not acting that lethargic from my experience. Though he definitely isn't at his best.

 

[Angelwolf]

@Boxlady Can we see some pictures or a video update of how he's doing?

 

[BB Feeders]

Update,

Vet can’t get him in until Wednesday, not sure if he will make it or the couple hour car ride. I hope so. Here are some videos and photos from today. Not sure if he is any better or not. Still won’t eat - tried different worms. He doesn't move around at all unless it’s to run away from the water. He will sit in the corner and turn black if I let him. He seems to do better under the heat lamp so I try to move him back to it if he ran to far away. He won’t go back on his own at all. Think he can’t see that well? He tries to climb the air... not sure how else to describe it then air climbing. He sleeps a lot and seems to me very slow.

I've been misting every hour or so. I tired the shower with the rain shower pointed at the wall and him on the other side but he tried to air climb of the branches and fell to the bottom of the shower. I was worried he might hurt himself like that so I stopped and just mist like crazy now...

Thanks for all the advice its helped a lot. I know I shouldn't have gotten him but he was the only one left and my heart was braking looking at him. I had a spare done cage and thought I could try and give him a chance at life.

First video is before misting. He won’t more around unless it’s to get away from the water.


Second video is me misting... Its a top down view... I can’t hold the camera and pump the sprayer at the same time... He doesn't seem to see very well? tries to grab at nothing...



Third video - he got stuck in the corner, so I held my hand in and he climbed on there and moved him back to the light.



Photos from this afternoon.

 

[BB Feeders]

The casque looks male to me and in the nighttime photo I see spurs.

I agree with getting some wax worms. My Hansel that I just took in was pretty underweight and I couldn't get him to eat anything the first few days to almost a week. But he finally ate wax worms. Then about a wee after that started eating silks and a few dubia. He went from 75g on Dec 11th to 86g just 2 days ago.

definetly take in a fecal and check for parasites asap. He may need just a few days to get settled and soak up some heat. Hydrating will make him feel better too. Being skinny like that you don't want him to go too long and might want to get some carnivore care just to get some nutrition into him if he won't even eat wax worms.

Ive tried to look up where to buy some in the Netherlands but cant find it here. Is there another brand or something similar?

 

[BB Feeders]

I definitely suggest focusing on rehydrating at the moment. He won't show much interest in most food until he is rehydrated to at least a decent level. Right now he is where I would consider vet intervention for all my rescues no matter the possible outcome on the stress levels. Intrevenous fluids can be absorbed faster and easier than the amount he can drink in my opinion. Even just half a cc will help. However for most people with inhome care this is near impossible with chameleons because they don't have easy to inject spots like certain other reptiles and mammals. I have done home fluid care for leos and small pocket pets/cats, that got declined so quickly that taking them to the vet would kill them from the stress before any help could happen. However with him I would risk it. But in my opinion there is a lot you can do at home to help him with rehydration in the mean time. Misting with hot water, so the mist comes out warm even far away, is best to get a drinking response quickly. I recommend mistinh sessions for this boy at no shorter than 20 minutes and about two hours a part. If you are really worried about him eating and also getting fluids in him at the same time, get organic baby food and an oral syringe that is only one cc. I would stick mostly to veggies with the baby food or veggies mixed with fruits. No animal proteins for sure. Give him no more than .5 cc in one sitting place the tip of the oral syringe into his throat so he doesn't aspirate at all and hold his head still a bit so he swallows well and doesn't spit any out. I wouldn't so more than .5 until his eyes and urates are better but the extra food and moisture may help with his hydration levels.

I've been doing warm water like you suggested it seems to help with him drinking faster. He still runs away though.

As far as food goes I purchased some baby food today but I don't have the right syringe. I'm going to have to try and find one - hopefully pharmacy has one here or maybe the vet will have something on Wednesday.

 

[Angelwolf]

Ive tried to look up where to buy some in the Netherlands but cant find it here. Is there another brand or something similar?

Maybe I'm not reading this right, but waxworms are a type of bug. Not a brand. They look like little white grubs. But as the others are saying, I would worry more about rehydrating him, than food. He needs water to get his organs working again so that he will be able to digest food when he is actually ready. From the pictures and videos today (thanks, by the way!) he looks slightly better than when you got him. His "climbing the air" behavior is normal. He's in a new environment, doesn't quite know the lay of the land, and this water stuff starts touching him. He's just grasping for anything he can get, to move away. My cham did the same thing when I first got him, until he figured out that water was for drinking, and now he actually goes over to it and starts drinking. Don't forget, he's still learning his surroundings, too. He's also still a baby and is scared. I would continue what you are doing, and try to be patient. I don't think he looks all that bad, anymore, and the alertness in his eyes is a very good sign.

 

[BB Feeders]

Maybe I'm not reading this right, but waxworms are a type of bug. Not a brand. They look like little white grubs. But as the others are saying, I would worry more about rehydrating him, than food. He needs water to get his organs working again so that he will be able to digest food when he is actually ready. From the pictures and videos today (thanks, by the way!) he looks slightly better than when you got him. His "climbing the air" behavior is normal. He's in a new environment, doesn't quite know the lay of the land, and this water stuff starts touching him. He's just grasping for anything he can get, to move away. My cham did the same thing when I first got him, until he figured out that water was for drinking, and now he actually goes over to it and starts drinking. Don't forget, he's still learning his surroundings, too. He's also still a baby and is scared. I would continue what you are doing, and try to be patient. I don't think he looks all that bad, anymore, and the alertness in his eyes is a very good sign.

I was asking about the carnivore care. They don't seem to have it here. At least not that I can find. He does seem to move his eyes more which is more then he was doing yesterday. Just thought the climbing air was a little weird, good to know he doesn't have eye problems too - poor guy doesn't need any more problems!

 

[Andee]

I agree just focus on misting at the moment. Food isn't a worry at least for the next two to three days and in my opinion would likely do more harm than good. Carnivore care you can only get online or through you vet.