new to chams, why screens?

[ratfink]

i posted this question on reptic zone also. Whenever it's mentioned that chameleons need screens as opposed to a tank it's said that it's because the air can become stagnant and with the humidity it can build up bacteria. There are a lot of other reptiles that have high humidity though and they live in tanks or enclosed cages at least. Crested geckos need 70-80% and live in 20 gallon aquariums usually. So does anyone actually know why chams need this? There has to be an actual difference in chameleons from other reptiles for this to be true.

 

[dodolah]

i posted this question on reptic zone also. Whenever it's mentioned that chameleons need screens as opposed to a tank it's said that it's because the air can become stagnant and with the humidity it can build up bacteria. There are a lot of other reptiles that have high humidity though and they live in tanks or enclosed cages at least. Crested geckos need 70-80% and live in 20 gallon aquariums usually. So does anyone actually know why chams need this? There has to be an actual difference in chameleons from other reptiles for this to be true.

Old World chameleons are arboreal and spend most often at the high point of tree as oppose to ground dwelling lizard.
The air quality at the top of the tree is more fresh than the one nearby soil.

 

[Syreptyon]

Not only is it the ventilation that is important, but chameleons are solitary animals and seeing their reflection in the glass stresses them out. Stress is a huge factor in the premature death of chameleons.

They also need enclosures that are tall because of their natural arboreal habitat, which fish tanks and typical glass enclosurs simply cannot provide. The height also allows for a good temperature gradient as well.

 

[nightcrawler]

Chameleons are also prone to upper respiratory infections and need the circulation of air. As you said stagnant air builds up bacteria and that can cause URI. Chameleons don't take being sick well either. They go downhill really fast and sometimes don't show signs of it until its close to too late.

 

[Julirs]

Also-remember that chams do not drink out of water dishes, and hand or machine misting for several minutes several times a day in a glass enclosure leads to water build up if it has no where to go.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Where do you live?
People can and do keep chameleons in glass enclosure successfully. Especially where temperature fluctuates greatly between day and night, and where low ambient humidity is the norm.

The key is keeping the interior enviornment right, not necessarily the construction of the enclosure.

That said, at least half of people on this site use screen cages. (not me though).

You may find aspects of my blog of use to you when making your caging decisions.

Especially the list of links in this entry: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/82-enclosures-housing.html
Dont worry, it actually doesnt take long at all to quicky read through all the linked content.

 

[ratfink]

Where do you live?
People can and do keep chameleons in glass enclosure successfully. Especially where temperature fluctuates greatly between day and night, and where low ambient humidity is the norm.

I live in MA and I have a cabinet, not a glass enclosure that's almost 2x2 and over 4 feet high. For the other responses, crested geckos are also arboreal, spend their time at the top and get easily stressed, sometimes dropping their tale for no apparent reason. I think almost all reptiles are easily stressed. I can see that chams are much more easily stressed then cresteds though so the reflections thing makes sense.

This is my enclosure:

I also have a 55 gallon tall that's put vertically to be 4' high. It's probably a bit over 1x1 though, could be good for a baby if I only put the vines up half way to make it 2' high.

That picture though is what I'm thinking about. It has a glass front door and that's it for glass. There's a small vent I made at the top also. My crested gecko used to be in that but he found a flaw in it being a gap in the wood at the very bottom where he climbed out and disappeared for a few days. I didn't know how he got out so he pulled it off again. Now he's in a 40 gallon turned vertical and closely monitored lol.

 

[kinyonga]

There are pluses and minuses to screen and glass..

Screen gives good ventilation and doesn't collect the water and allows the heat to dissipate. There is also no problem with reflections (which I haven't found to be a problem myself...but people keep on mentioning it as a problem). It does cause difficulty in holding the heat and humidity in when the climate is cool and dry...but is easier to keep cooler in the summertime. Its hard to mist in a screen cage without the water ending up sprayed through the cage and on the walls and floor surrounding the cage. The chameleon has to stay up near the basking light to remain warm.

Glass holds the humidity and heat in better in a dry cool climate but its harder to keep cool in the summertime. Its also harder to deal with the water problem (unless you drill a hole in the bottom of the cage). Misting, however does not end up outside the cage sprayed on the walls and floor surrounding the cage. The chameleon can see its reflection (but I have never found it to be a problem). There can still be airflow if the lighting is set up properly....just like in the convection boxes (with candles and smoke, etc.) that youths are taught about in science in school.

Guess the best of both worlds would be to use screen in the hot climates and seasons and glass (with screen lids) in the cool climates and seasons.

 

[Dunnigan]

I also have a 55 gallon tall that's put vertically to be 4' high. It's probably a bit over 1x1 though, could be good for a baby if I only put the vines up half way to make it 2' high.

That picture though is what I'm thinking about. It has a glass front door and that's it for glass. There's a small vent I made at the top also. My crested gecko used to be in that but he found a flaw in it being a gap in the wood at the very bottom where he climbed out and disappeared for a few days. I didn't know how he got out so he pulled it off again. Now he's in a 40 gallon turned vertical and closely monitored lol.

If you use the 55g long where would you put the lighting? UVB light cannot pass through glass.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

Glass is fine if you can get everything right. All the others - ventilation, humidity - easy fixes. The glass is the hard part - chameleons that want out will try to get through it, and that stresses them, pawing at the glass all day. A large, glass enclosure, with good ventilation is fine, especially if the animals can't get to the glass -that's hard to do.

 

[Fate X]

i posted this question on reptic zone also. Whenever it's mentioned that chameleons need screens as opposed to a tank it's said that it's because the air can become stagnant and with the humidity it can build up bacteria. There are a lot of other reptiles that have high humidity though and they live in tanks or enclosed cages at least. Crested geckos need 70-80% and live in 20 gallon aquariums usually. So does anyone actually know why chams need this? There has to be an actual difference in chameleons from other reptiles for this to be true.

the screen cages allow more sunlight through.

 

[BocaJan]

Looking at your picture and hearing you want a glass door, I am wondering where your cham is going to get air circulation? Natural habitat is a tree top where it gets lots of air. Although I don't have an issue with glass, I have seen many Canadian and UK people show pics of their glass vivs with lots of screened inserts. I wouldn't use that viv you posted.

 

[ratfink]

If you use the 55g long where would you put the lighting? UVB light cannot pass through glass.

That's a good point. If I used that I'd probably attach a light to the screen door.

Also someone said about UVB in the cabinet, if you look at the top left there's a light with a metal screen over it, then the lower light could be used for 2 UVB lights for more coverage.

Thanks for all the information thus far, people.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Glass is fine if you can get everything right. All the others - ventilation, humidity - easy fixes. The glass is the hard part - chameleons that want out will try to get through it, and that stresses them, pawing at the glass all day. A large, glass enclosure, with good ventilation is fine, especially if the animals can't get to the glass -that's hard to do.

My cages all have plexiglass doors. None of the chameleons has ever "pawed at the glass" - Im not sure if this is because the plexi is easier for them to see? or if I just provide a large enough, suitable enclosure they feel no need t escape from?

That's a good point. If I used that I'd probably attach a light to the screen door.
Also someone said about UVB in the cabinet, if you look at the top left there's a light with a metal screen over it, then the lower light could be used for 2 UVB lights for more coverage.Thanks for all the information thus far, people.

With screen doors and a screen top (is it a screen top?) you should have adequate air flow. Put the heat lamp in the back corner. I wouldnt bother with lights at the bottom of the cage.

 

[summoner12]

Good luck and welcome!

If that is a UVB lamp at the lower left, it appears to have a plastic cover on it. UVB does not transit through plastic or glass or Plexiglas. Aside from the fact that it won't do any good with a plastic cover, there is no point in having it in the cage like that. The light should come from the top. Do not install lamps inside of the enclosure. It can be dangerous if it is a heat lamp and both heat and UV lamps can be blinding if projected into the cage from the side. I see you have a solid top with a cut out. Is there screen or plastic covering that hole?

For some reading on UV check out the UV Guide website, tons to learn there.