New Owner Here - Need Information about Live Plants

[KayCamp]

I purchased a four month old veiled chameleon yesterday. The store is holding it for me until I get the housing set up. I have read, read, read everything I can find and the pet store spent over an hour with me. I have everything that is needed.

I bought two live plants -- a schefflera and pothos. I read that I should wash the leaves off twice, using a soapy water mixture. I am supposed to replant the plants using non-commercial soil or one that does not contain fertilizer. I am supposed to put large river rocks on top of the soil. My questions:

1. I understand that I am washing off chemicals from the leaves of the plant. However, won't the soapy water bother the chameleon?

2. If I am covering the soil with river rocks, so that the chameleon cannot get to the soil, why do I need to repot the plants?

Thanks in advance for the information. There is a lot of conflicting information out there. I cannot tell you how many times I read that coconut husk is the substrate that should be used (I am using eco-carpet). I am a long-time regular at the pet store so I run everything I read by them before implementing anything.

 

[Swayne8998]

Welcome to the forums! We would be happy to provide you with support and accurate information to help you with your new guy.

As long as you completely wash off the leaves, the soap won't bother your veiled at all. Schefflera and pothos are excellent choices for chameleons, as they will grow to fill up the cage and your veiled can nibble on the leaves too.

When you are repotting the plants, I would suggest using a mixture of say 60% unfertilized potting soil and 40% small (clean) rocks for fast draining soil, because your plants will be receiving a LOT of water from all the misting you will be doing. Putting river rocks on the top will discourage your veiled from trying to eat any soil and becoming impacted.

About the eco carpet... you really don't need any substrate at all. Coconut fiber is a terrible choice as it is difficult to change out and it becomes a breeding ground for all kinds of bacteria, and your cham could ingest it. I would go no substrate at all, but you need to have an effective draining system.

Hope this information helps and good luck with your new chameleon.

 

[KayCamp]

Welcome to the forums! We would be happy to provide you with support and accurate information to help you with your new guy.

As long as you completely wash off the leaves, the soap won't bother your veiled at all. Schefflera and pothos are excellent choices for chameleons, as they will grow to fill up the cage and your veiled can nibble on the leaves too.

When you are repotting the plants, I would suggest using a mixture of say 60% unfertilized potting soil and 40% small (clean) rocks for fast draining soil, because your plants will be receiving a LOT of water from all the misting you will be doing. Putting river rocks on the top will discourage your veiled from trying to eat any soil and becoming impacted.

About the eco carpet... you really don't need any substrate at all. Coconut fiber is a terrible choice as it is difficult to change out and it becomes a breeding ground for all kinds of bacteria, and your cham could ingest it. I would go no substrate at all, but you need to have an effective draining system.

Hope this information helps and good luck with your new chameleon.

The bottom of the screen cage has a white plastic insert. If I drilled holes in that for drainage, would that be acceptable? Do you have any thoughts regarding an automated watering system? Thanks for your help.

 

[jannb]

Welcome to the forums. I'm attaching my blog for new keepers below. It has a section about plants. My way of keeping veileds has worked successfully for me over the years.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html

 

[FrankTheTank]

The bottom of the screen cage has a white plastic insert. If I drilled holes in that for drainage, would that be acceptable? Do you have any thoughts regarding an automated watering system? Thanks for your help.

Search DIY misting in the forums. Mistking is a popular brand that many people on here use. I made my own kind of monsoon watering system but I used expensive parts that were going to be thrown away at my work so mine won't help you. There is a ton of info on here if you look. The drainage you suggested will work. I would do one central hole and drain into a bucket if possible. Good luck and welcome to the forums!

 

[Jamire]

Its best to re-pot the plants regardless if he can eat the dirt because the plant will absorb whatever is in the dirt (possibly salty nutrients) and your cham will eat foliage that contains these things.

Now, you should know that plants do need "food" to live. They need some fertilization in order to live properly. But granted, extremely light. A phrase I heard from horticulture is "fertilize weekly, weakly." I take that to the chameleon world as "fertilize every other week, weakly."
An accumulation of salts is exactly what you want to avoid. I use a fertilizer that is less of a basic nutrient based fertilizer, and more of a organic "beneficial bacteria" supplement. This product is great, been using it for a long time. Canadian made, completely organic. http://www.technaflora.com/indexProduct.php?ID=107

Its great if you transplant your plants lots or if your plants are about to die. The name says it all "thrive alive"

I use 1/4 of the recommended strength and lightly water my plants with it. The few days after you can really see an increase In growth, and you can notice when it "eats" it all up. The growth slows.

Disclaimer: Do not over-feed your plants with anything. If you are not sure, best to stick with just water. I had an instance where I had a friend fertilize a plant for me at my old place with this stuff and he did it way too heavy, you should have seen all the things growing out of my pot! All sorts of little bugs and mushroom sprouts 3-4 inches high! It was a jungle in that dirt within a day. So be cautious with "beneficial bacteria" type supplements, too much can make your enclosure full of unwanted bacteria's.

But the healthiest plants get some food too. And if your supplement is good and organic, your cham will benefit from eating the nutritious foliage.

 

[KayCamp]

Welcome to the forums. I'm attaching my blog for new keepers below. It has a section about plants. My way of keeping veileds has worked successfully for me over the years.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html

Thank you for this. I cannot figure out how to make a comment on your blog, so I'll ask you here: I have found a veterinarian that handles all the reptiles in our area. How often do I take a chameleon for a checkup? My cats and dogs go once a year, unless they're having problems in between their annual checkups. Is it the same for a chameleon?

 

[jannb]

Thank you for this. I cannot figure out how to make a comment on your blog, so I'll ask you here: I have found a veterinarian that handles all the reptiles in our area. How often do I take a chameleon for a checkup? My cats and dogs go once a year, unless they're having problems in between their annual checkups. Is it the same for a chameleon?

My chameleon vets recommends every 6 months.

 

[KayCamp]

Thank you all for the information. You've been very helpful (especially since I now see I'm in the wrong section - husbandry ).

 

[Deevo]

The bottom of the screen cage has a white plastic insert. If I drilled holes in that for drainage, would that be acceptable? Do you have any thoughts regarding an automated watering system? Thanks for your help.

That will work but the white insert won't be strong enough to support the weight of the plants. What I did was I went to Home Depot and brought the white insert with me.

I then got them to cut out a 1" thick piece of wood the same size as the insert. Drill a hole in both pieces at the centre and lay the plastic insert ontop and put both inside the cage. You may want to buy 3 or 4 extra pieces of wood.

Then I set the whole cage (18x18x36) on top of a big plastic tupperware container. Every 3-5 days I need to empty it. With a larger cage you can use a table with a hole in it and some kind of hose/bucket system.

 

[Swayne8998]

The bottom of the screen cage has a white plastic insert. If I drilled holes in that for drainage, would that be acceptable? Do you have any thoughts regarding an automated watering system? Thanks for your help.

Yes, that should work fine if the water is escaping easily out the bottom and you have something to catch it. Probably the most reputable misting systems are the MistKing systems, they are great and pretty affordable. Starting kits usually run around $100.

 

[Carlton]

That will work but the white insert won't be strong enough to support the weight of the plants. What I did was I went to Home Depot and brought the white insert with me.

I then got them to cut out a 1" thick piece of wood the same size as the insert. Drill a hole in both pieces at the centre and lay the plastic insert ontop and put both inside the cage. You may want to buy 3 or 4 extra pieces of wood.

Then I set the whole cage (18x18x36) on top of a big plastic tupperware container. Every 3-5 days I need to empty it. With a larger cage you can use a table with a hole in it and some kind of hose/bucket system.

Heat will let you mold the plastic bottom into a depresssion where you can drill a drain hole. You could pick a good spot in the plastic (maybe not right under your largest heaviest plant pot), set a brick or rock on top, and heat the plastic with a hairdryer from underneath. The plastic will eventually start sagging under the weight of the rock/brick. Let it cool and drill the drain at the bottom of the sagged area. It doesn't need to be dramatic, just enough to guide water towards your drain hole. You could then cut the support wood for underneath and drill a hole in that to line up with the one above.

 

[KayCamp]

One last question before I go and pick up my chameleon. I have set up the screen cage and will try to post a picture of it. The pet store advised me to put some spagnum moss down (not all over) because it was good about retaining moisture and would help with the humidity. But don't I have to worry about the chameleon ingesting some of this? Isn't that the reason you're not supposed to use substrate?

I have three plants with plastic trays underneath. I put the moss around the plants, in the trays, thinking it would help absorb the water. I was also told to get a little "cave" and put the moss on top. But I'm sure the chameleon will probably knock some off to the ground and could eat it. Is this moss something that is OK if ingested or do I need to remove it?

Thank you all for your replies; you've been so helpful!

 

[symphonica]

There would always be a risk of them ingesting it and causing a lethal blockage. If you wanted to maintain humidity, you could tack up some sheets of acrylic (sold at Home Depot for cheap) to some of the sides of the cage to limit evaporation.

 

[Swayne8998]

One last question before I go and pick up my chameleon. I have set up the screen cage and will try to post a picture of it. The pet store advised me to put some spagnum moss down (not all over) because it was good about retaining moisture and would help with the humidity. But don't I have to worry about the chameleon ingesting some of this? Isn't that the reason you're not supposed to use substrate?

I have three plants with plastic trays underneath. I put the moss around the plants, in the trays, thinking it would help absorb the water. I was also told to get a little "cave" and put the moss on top. But I'm sure the chameleon will probably knock some off to the ground and could eat it. Is this moss something that is OK if ingested or do I need to remove it?

Thank you all for your replies; you've been so helpful!

What pet store told you this information? If Petsmart/Petco, definitely don't buy from them. I would second-guess the credibility of this store...

Moss is a pain to deal with and moisten regularly, and yes, your cham can ingest it and die. Also, the cave thing is definitely unnecessary. The cham will never need a cave, and the moss on top is pointless as well...

 

[Carlton]

The pet store advised me to put some spagnum moss down (not all over) because it was good about retaining moisture and would help with the humidity. But don't I have to worry about the chameleon ingesting some of this? Isn't that the reason you're not supposed to use substrate?

Sphagnum mosses have some tiny pretty sharp spines that can get caught in a cham's throat or intestines. Also, loose feeders burrow into it and hide or die, poop collects in it, the stuff eventually molds as you can't really clean it. Mosses can absorb and release moisture sure, but there are other safer ways to keep the cage humid so you don't really need a substrate. Chams don't use the substrate to burrow in so there's less reason for it.

In the rare situation when I decided to use a cage substrate I chose that sterilized recycled paper pulp bedding, packed it down, and put a piece of window screen on top. It worked pretty well, as long as I spot cleaned it and watched for mold. If a cham did happen to pick some up on its tongue it would dissolve into a fine powder in their gut (but I don't think this ever happened).

 

[KayCamp]

What pet store told you this information? If Petsmart/Petco, definitely don't buy from them. I would second-guess the credibility of this store...

Moss is a pain to deal with and moisten regularly, and yes, your cham can ingest it and die. Also, the cave thing is definitely unnecessary. The cham will never need a cave, and the moss on top is pointless as well...

Yes, Pet Smart. I called up there today and spoke to the main reptile guy, and he told me not to use the moss and to take it all out, which I did.

The reason for the cave was so that if the cam go stressed, it would go in the cave. I can take that out too.

There is so much conflicting information. I have read several "experts" recommending coconut husk substrate. This Pet Smart has been pretty good to me. I have seven dogs, one cat, and three fire belly toads. They've always been pretty accurate and helpful. I will be using this forum for all future advice.

 

[Swayne8998]

Yes, Pet Smart. I called up there today and spoke to the main reptile guy, and he told me not to use the moss and to take it all out, which I did.

The reason for the cave was so that if the cam go stressed, it would go in the cave. I can take that out too.

There is so much conflicting information. I have read several "experts" recommending coconut husk substrate. This Pet Smart has been pretty good to me. I have seven dogs, one cat, and three fire belly toads. They've always been pretty accurate and helpful. I will be using this forum for all future advice.

Haha, we have all been suckered by the Pet Smart folks before. They are a good chain store for dogs, cats, you know, "regular" pets. Haha Unfortunately, their reptile care is far less than spectacular, and the products they will sell you are pretty cheap and overpriced, just stuff they want to sell you. Chams don't hide in caves when they get scared, they hide in dense foliage, so it would be a good idea to have some thick live plants like a ficus, schefflera, or pothos. Also, coconut husk is likely to be ingested as well and is a pain to clean, with also the chance of losing dead feeders and accumulating feces and water. Best to avoid any loose substrate, if substrate at all. My suggestion is to trust the information you get on this site more than anything, the information its people has taught me saved my veiled from a road to disaster.

 

[symphonica]

Think about where wild chams live. Way up high in the trees. Do you think there are caves at the tops of trees? The only thing they need is branches and leaves. Mine are all free-ranged, where I have a bunch of 6-8' ficus in a room (sort of like a mini jungle). They are always all towards the top, and none of them have ever come down from their trees to the bottom. They move from tree to tree across the branches, without ever setting foot onto the ground.