New member with questions

AZNichol

New Member
Hello everyone! Let me apologize in advance if this get's long. My name is Nichol and I live in Phoenix, Arizona. I'm here because my children ( 9,11 and 17) have been begging for a chameleon. We've already got a bit of a zoo with 2 small parrots, 2 dogs, 3 turtles a reef tank and a stray cat colony. I know very little about reptiles and while (if we do decide to get a lizard) the children will be responsible for the everyday care and feeding it's my responsibility to make sure they are doing it right. I'm doing separate posts within this thread for each topic. Thank you in advance for your help and patience :)

I was thinking of keeping the indoor enclosure in my nieces room as she runs her ceiling fan day and night so the best air circulation is in there, it's next to the AC so it's the coolest room in the house (it stays a pretty constant 70 degrees) and she doesn't allow the dogs in her room.

The enclosures aren't a problem as my husband and sons would enjoy building them together. We were given a fairly large "table top" waterfall handmade out of slate as a gift and I could dig it out of storage to use as the indoor water source. I've only run purified water through it so I know it's clean. Branches would be cuttings from my organic grapes and because I garden I would just alternate food pots of various heights (like blueberry in the winter with lettuce starts) as the seasons change.
The outdoor enclosure could be fairly large (3x8x7) as I want it next to my turtle pond (not close enough for a turtle to get it but close enough that I could use the creeping jenny and bamboo to provide shade for about half of it). I was going to put a hibiscus in there anyway and currently have ferns in hanging baskets and strawberries and herbs in the ground.) It gets good midday sun but because of the pond and wall it stays about 15 degrees cooler than say in my front yard in the shade). I'd just divert the drip line already in place so it would "rain" twice daily, the water won't be purified but there's nothing I can do about that. The cats won't go near it because the backyard is the dogs territory and they mostly come out at night and I wouldn't leave the lizard out alone.

That's all for now. After ya'll tell me what you think we'll discuss different types of Chameleons and what might be best for us, lights, food and whatever else you think I need to know. I'm also concerned about breeding. Namely I don't want to and if I have to breed it to keep the animal healthy it's really not a great pet for us. I also need to know about local reptile vets and what I can expect in costs.
 
Firstly, it's great that you're looking for help BEFORE getting a chameleon :)

Let's see if I can answer most of your quesions:
- You will need lights for the indoor enclosure, namely a regular bulb to serve as a "hot spot" (I use a plant bulb from home depot/lowe's, to help the plants) and a Reptisun 5.0 fluorescent bulb to give him the UV lighting he needs.

- We don't tend to recommend waterfalls since thye get slimmy and covered in bacteria pretty quickly, unless you're ready to wash it out every night.

- The outdoor cage sounds good, I think. It's a good place to bring him out to get a couple hours of natural light.

- The best chameleon is probably a male, because they won't produce infertile eggs during the year like females. The best species to start with are Panthers and Veileds (I like Jackson's too, but they're smaller and need more humidity). There are hundreds of threads comparing the two species, if you want to do a "search" at the top.

Hope that helps!
 
The only thing that I can add to Olimpia’s post after a quick skim is to leave out the waterfall, though clean they get dirty fast and breed bacteria, they are a pain.

Also, start out with a smaller cage and work your way up as it grows.

Check out this site: http://phxreptileexpo.com Only 7 months away! Or if you are up for a little drive: http://www.tucsonreptileshow.com OR http://www.GetReptiles.Com they are only 6 months away! Or if you want a longer drive: http://www.reptilesupershow.com which is only 3 months away.

You get the idea :p
 
I saw the Phx show, we'll probably attend if we have a Chameleon. I wont be in S.D. until August and I'll only go to Vegas if someone volunteers to babysit my brats 'cause Mama needs a VACATION! :p

How do you handle the water indoors as I thought they wouldn't drink from standing water? It's very arid in Phoenix and I worry that misting the enclosure wont provide adequate moisture.

I'm gonna do that search, I've only looked at Veiled so far as I thought Panthers were too finicky and hard to keep and the Jacksons are look but don't touch creatures. Also, do all Chameleon males have the extra horn on the back feet?
 
realities of chameleon keeping

i dont mean to rain on the parade, but, before you make a decision, you and the chams would be well served to read this excellent blog (by sandrachameleon) on the realities of chameleon keeping. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/216-maybe-you-shouldnt-have-chameleon.html generally speaking, chameleons dont make good casual pets. their care can be fairly expensive, and they can have some pretty complex husbandry and nutritional issues. most are not that good at being held, they need a wide variety of live feeders, not at all like keeping most other pets, in early keeping they need to be approached as more of a science project than a pet, many health problems are difficult to detect until they are difficult to reverse. and they usually are only kept successfully long term, by people who are willing to do on going, in depth learning of them. as an example, you might want to browse the pages of the cf health clinic and see how many keepers have problems with them. all too often, people get into chams without realizing what they are getting into (until they have a dying cham on their hands) sorry, but it had to be said. harsh, but true. if you want to (successfully) get into chameleons , you need to learn more than just the basics first. the following post is a prime example of what i am talking about https://www.chameleonforums.com/maybe-gravid-female-jackson-39025/#post363446 only after you have learned the basics, will you be able to make an informed and intelligent decision about whether a chameleon is right for you. jmo
 
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Yes, Xanthoman is right. They are tricky animals, and until you have everything set-up and get into a routine, they aren't that easy to take care of. Not that it's hard either, in my opinion (when I first looked at chams that's all I heard from people, "they're so hard!" which hasn't been my experience at all) but they aren't easy. There's a lot of details to research and figure out ahead of time. And their vet bills can be expensive!

All chameleons, as a general rule are "look but don't touch." They get stressed out easily and don't usually tolerate being handled. The water thing isn't so had to deal with - I have an album in my profile with photos of one enclosure as an example - you will probably need to spray the cage several times a day for 10 minutes or so at a time, maybe put a shower curtain around the cage to hold in te humidity a little, and then make yourself a drainage system. Some people get humidifiers and put them near the cages too.

Do your research, maybe get a book or two, and then decide. Having chameleons is very interesting and very rewarding, but they aren't for everyone. There are other reptiles that make easier and friendlier pets, like bearded dragons. They can be super friendly and also come in a great variety of colors. Or geckos, like leopard geckos or crested geckos.
 
I'm here because I'm trying to learn about the animal to decide if it's right for our family. I do have reservations about bringing a cham into our home. Any new addition to a family is a weighty decision. I tend not to support the pet trade industry and if we do decide to get a cham my first choice would not be a baby. It would not come into our home until it's habitat is perfect and we're comfortable in providing it with care. Any living thing I take under my roof voluntarily will enjoy my protection and attention, anything trespassing is treated humanely and shown the door naturally.
Every pet takes time and money, as the kids want this particular pet I need to know that they can care for it with minimal supervision by me and our pet sitter can care for it when we are out of town.
Don't think I've taken offense, it's my nature to speak plainly. If someone would walk into my house and say "Gee, I'm thinking of getting a parrot" I'd be forced to point out a few harsh realities of owning one to them as you have done for me. Same with the turtles. Both animals require specific settings and care, sure the turtles are pretty much self sustaining after I renovated my patio to build them a pond but not many people realize you need to alter your diet to feed birds because they feed socially and they can't eat most of the garbage we humans eat. Birds and turtles aren't cheap to vet either. Please notice that the last sentence of my original post was asking about vetting. I'm serious, I haven't found a decent turtle vet in Phoenix yet.
I don't "live and learn" with animals, we adopt them and they join our family. I've been reading the posts on and off all day and one in particular horrified me because they were "shopping" prices and said a cheaper veiled would be an easier loss than a more expensive panther, others replied where to get a cheaper Panther! I don't think they should have any pets if cost is a priority in it's living, but being new I need to bite my tongue.

On a side note ~ If you ever want to hear me rant ask me about big box stores and backyard breeders!
 
And I think it's fantastic that you're here to learn BEFORE getting anything. I just want to scream when people show up with a pair of something they want to breed, but don't even know what to house them in! And since you already have exotic pets, you have more experience than someone who is just diving into chameleons from hamsters or something.
 
I'm here because I'm trying to learn about the animal to decide if it's right for our family. I do have reservations about bringing a cham into our home. Any new addition to a family is a weighty decision. I tend not to support the pet trade industry and if we do decide to get a cham my first choice would not be a baby. It would not come into our home until it's habitat is perfect and we're comfortable in providing it with care. Any living thing I take under my roof voluntarily will enjoy my protection and attention, anything trespassing is treated humanely and shown the door naturally.
Every pet takes time and money, as the kids want this particular pet I need to know that they can care for it with minimal supervision by me and our pet sitter can care for it when we are out of town.
Don't think I've taken offense, it's my nature to speak plainly. If someone would walk into my house and say "Gee, I'm thinking of getting a parrot" I'd be forced to point out a few harsh realities of owning one to them as you have done for me. Same with the turtles. Both animals require specific settings and care, sure the turtles are pretty much self sustaining after I renovated my patio to build them a pond but not many people realize you need to alter your diet to feed birds because they feed socially and they can't eat most of the garbage we humans eat. Birds and turtles aren't cheap to vet either. Please notice that the last sentence of my original post was asking about vetting. I'm serious, I haven't found a decent turtle vet in Phoenix yet.
I don't "live and learn" with animals, we adopt them and they join our family. I've been reading the posts on and off all day and one in particular horrified me because they were "shopping" prices and said a cheaper veiled would be an easier loss than a more expensive panther, others replied where to get a cheaper Panther! I don't think they should have any pets if cost is a priority in it's living, but being new I need to bite my tongue.

On a side note ~ If you ever want to hear me rant ask me about big box stores and backyard breeders!

You are completely winning my respect here! I love to rant about petstores and backyard breeders! You will see many posts of mine doing just that!
Looking at the other pets you keep, and that you posed the question yourself about the pet-sitter issue and going out of town, chameleons will need more regular, daily care then any of the other pets. Chams do tie you down, you have to mist several times daily (a misting system helps with this) and feed adults daily or every other day, not to mention maintain a regular supply of live feeders-which is as much work as the chameleons themselves-I don't see that you are feeding "live" food to any other pets there. If you do have a good pet sitter, and can spend the time and expense to automate lights and misting, it is certainly doable.
 
I don't have a lot of time right now to completely read through your post, but I also live in AZ. A couple suggestions I have are a swamp cooler or humidifier that can run while you are not home, and depending on how well that works for you, covering a side or two of the screen with a plastic cover or plexiglas.

I will try to offer more help when I get home! Until then, there are many informed keepers on this site. :)
 
Get a well started veiled (6" or so). Probably the hardiest chameleon you can get.

My 13 year old has done great with his and has only required minimal supervision. As in- once feeding routine and what to feed and how to prepare salad and dust insects was established, the only supervision he has required has been a quick random visual check every once in a while to make sure the lizard was cared for that day, and a very occasional reminder to clean the enclosure.

There is a great 13 year old that goes by cleathechameleon here on the board that is doing a fine job with his veileds as well, probably with less supervision than I give my son.

So, yes, very possible for your teens to take care of things with some supervision from you once you all know the basics...
 
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