new here- equipment help please.

[PardalisGirl]

Hollypops....

Debate is a good thing Hollypops.....Something is wrong if we are not allowed to do that. Hopefully Summoner12 or someone else with a light meter can provide you with some readings for a 5.0 in a hood through screen at various levels. A 5.0 after about a month's use. I still have to find my meter and when I do the battery situation is probably not good.

What does the inside of your hood look like? Is it shiny metal or white? What is the distance between the tube and the base of the hood that rests on the cage? These things make a difference. Summoner12 suggested that my cages would be more efficient if I forced my cham up to the very top so it could access the proper amount of UVB from the 5.0. In my cage they would have to be in the top nine inches to do this. I have 2 1/2 inches from the tube to the base of the hood. With your hood it might be 1/2 inch. I personally do not want to force my cham to much spend time within 9 1/2 inches (or 12 inches for that matter) of the top. To me efficiency isn't the use of a less expensive light. It's using more of the cage.

Why have a 36" or 48" cage if you don't utilize it? If the cham needs to spend a whole lot of time within 12 inches to get it's UVB why not just use a 24 inch cage on a stand to give the cham the sensation of height? I personally don't like seeing my cham glued to the top for heat or UVB. I have purposefully placed my plants and branches and changed my heat and UVB so they spend their time in the 10 to 20 inch range in my cage. I personally like seeing them in this range. That is a choice. Since 10 to 20 inches down in the cage means that the cham is 12 1/2 to 22 1/2 inches from the UVB tube in the hood it means that the cham is always out of range of a 5.0 tube. So I use the 10.0 light. To me it's an efficient use of my cage. My six month old to adult chams in these cages are not walking upside down on the screen. I've looked at Summoner12's readings for my ranges and don't feel they are being overdosed. I think they are THRIVING.

What do you want from your 48" cage? I am asking you to figure out how you want to use your cage. You can approach this from two directions. You can decide to use either a 5.0 or a 10.0 and then arrange your heat, plants and branches to put him in the appropriate range for a good period of time. Or you can figure out where you want your cham to spend it's time in the cage and choose the light and heat according to that. Many choose this first method. I use the second. If someone else here can add the meter info for the 5.0 tubes I think you will be able to make a choice for yourself.

When I get my meter situation squared away I am going to test a sample of my cages with the 10.0 lights, hoods, plant arrangements, etc. and will post my results...

 

[Chamero]

Why have a 36" or 48" cage if you don't utilize it?

I was gonna ask you the same thing... It seems like with your 10.0 you not utilizing your cage to its full potential. By using the 10.0 you force your cham 12.5 inches lower from the top. So if your using a 36" cage, you effectively use 36-12=24". If you were to use a 5.0, you could raise your branches up and you cham would have access to about 10" more of cage. MAybe you could stay with your 10.0 and just raise the lights 5-6" above the top of the cage. It just seems as though you not maximizing you cage space to its full potential. This being said...I think you summarized the debate perfectly in the quote below.

What do you want from your 48" cage? I am asking you to figure out how you want to use your cage. You can approach this from two directions. You can decide to use either a 5.0 or a 10.0 and then arrange your heat, plants and branches to put him in the appropriate range for a good period of time. Or you can figure out where you want your cham to spend it's time in the cage and choose the light and heat according to that. Many choose this first method. I use the second. If someone else here can add the meter info for the 5.0 tubes I think you will be able to make a choice for yourself.

 

[PardalisGirl]

The opposite is true....

The opposite is true.....My cham would have to spend most of it's time within 9 1/2 inches of height with a 5.0. Remember there is 2 1/2 inches from the tube to the base of the hood in my fixtures. With the 10.0 light and my positioning it gets UVB from 10 to 21 1/2 inches down. That's 2 inches more height utilization in my situation. The slim style hood puts the tube at 1/2 inch above the screen top. If I had those hoods I would get the same 11 1/2 inches in cage height utilization that I have now. Number one, I'm not swapping my hoods out. I've got thousands of dollars into them. And I like the combo feature with separate switches for each light. Plus I like the way the cage looks. I like having the cham and plants more balanced within the cage. As I said I personally do not like having my chams stuck at the top like that. I've got some some super big adult males here. They would not even fit in the 9 and 1/2 inch space if sitting on a branch. Their head would be pressed against the screen and the body flattened out. In 12 inches of space they would still look crammed. My chams seem more personally comfortable in the position I have them. I've got no plan to change a thing.

 

[summoner12]

chameleon suppression?

What do you want from your 48" cage? I am asking you to figure out how you want to use your cage. You can approach this from two directions. You can decide to use either a 5.0 or a 10.0 and then arrange your heat, plants and branches to put him in the appropriate range for a good period of time. Or you can figure out where you want your cham to spend it's time in the cage and choose the light and heat according to that. Many choose this first method. I use the second. If someone else here can add the meter info for the 5.0 tubes I think you will be able to make a choice for yourself.

Why do you feel the need to control where your cham is in the cage? If you watch a chameleon who is housed outside, as soon as the sun is up they go to the top of the cage to bask. They don't hide low in the cage from the sun until late morning/afternoon when the sun is too intense for their liking. In effect you are creating a hostile lighting environment that they experience in the middle of the day when outside, forcing them to stay under cover because your light output is so intense.

 

[chamelisa]

Well can i first say thanks for all your replies.I am sorry if i have caused a debate.

I am putting uv tube in a hood on top of the mesh top, so do i get a 10 or a 5? Cage is 48 inches high and all wire mesh.

This is a good thread. Lots of information. Don't be sorry!!!

 

[summoner12]

Maybe when im down by LLL I can get some 5.0 tubes... and then return them or something..... I just have no use... anyone need T12 36" 5.0 zoomeds?

 

[chamelisa]

Why have a 36" or 48" cage if you don't utilize it?

I was gonna ask you the same thing... It seems like with your 10.0 you not utilizing your cage to its full potential. By using the 10.0 you force your cham 12.5 inches lower from the top. So if your using a 36" cage, you effectively use 36-12=24". If you were to use a 5.0, you could raise your branches up and you cham would have access to about 10" more of cage. MAybe you could stay with your 10.0 and just raise the lights 5-6" above the top of the cage. It just seems as though you not maximizing you cage space to its full potential. This being said...I think you summarized the debate perfectly in the quote below.

I don't know much about Catherine but her chameleons look awesome. Take a look in her albums. She must be doing something right, no?

I wonder how much of the debate has to do with climate differences. Here we are in sunny southern California and we have ample opportunity for natural sunlight. How much opportunity does she have in Washington. I used to live there and I do understand how cold and damp and often how dark it can be. So maybe her opportunities for outside sunning are limited so the 10.0s help offer the amount of UVB in a year closer to the amount that chameleons get in a warmer and sunnier climate. Or is that sunnyer? Ok, more sunny!

Just a thought.

 

[PardalisGirl]

Huhhh?

Summoner 12...you and I were posting at the same time. You probably did not see my post above your most recent one. In any case...why do you keep saying that I am forcing my chams under cover? You keep attributing behavior to them that does not exist. They are not hiding. They are sitting out in the open on top of their plant as happy and alert as they could be! If they were being blasted by a hostile light environment they would not be sitting were they do and be as healthy as they are for years. Once again please do not say my chams are doing things they are clearly not doing to make my experience look negative when it is not. I would call that true suppression!

 

[Chamero]

I just want to make clear that I understand that both scenarios work. PArdalisgirl's chams are living proof that the 10.0 can work....if placed with ample space between them and the cham. This 10" space between the cham seems to be the important fact in its success though. With a 5.0 your cham would have to be much closer to receive the same amount. I guess if we graphed the output of a 10.0 and a 5.0, the graphs would intersect at say xx.um...or whatever it is. The point is that we are each trying to reach the same amount of output from each light... the intersection point on the graph. Well in our cages, this intersection point seems to be 10" away with a 10.0 and about 5" away with the 5.0. Both will work, but make sure you know the distance that they work at. both are correct and like said, you can get away with either...

 

[chamelisa]

Why do you feel the need to control where your cham is in the cage? If you watch a chameleon who is housed outside, as soon as the sun is up they go to the top of the cage to bask. They don't hide low in the cage from the sun until late morning/afternoon when the sun is too intense for their liking. In effect you are creating a hostile lighting environment that they experience in the middle of the day when outside, forcing them to stay under cover because your light output is so intense.

This is my experience. When the sun comes up, a chameleon will just move to the side of the cage where the sun is. I have seen this in a number of chameleons. The sun is low. The chameleon just moves out of the shade and flattens out to bask. This can be at any level. I've witnessed this ever since living in our house and I think that's about 6 years. So in a tall cage, a chameleon that is sleeping around mid cage will just move to the side to get the morning sun. Same at the end of the day. Mid day they don't usually bask as much. They may come in and out of the foliage to regulate.

 

[PardalisGirl]

Sun is a problem here.

I get to put my chams outside two months a year. It's not an everyday thing here even then. And I make every bit of use out of that time period I can. I rotate them all out there which takes a lot of time.

Lots of people on the forum have the same problem though. All I can say is that what I do works for me. But I've never said it was the only way to go. It's clear that lots of people make the 5.0 work great for them. They've got things set up to make it work. And I think that's great. I just think there is more than one way to do a lot of things successfully. I also don't think there is anything wrong with experienced people exploring options outside what is printed or commonly considered a "rule". I've been keeping a variety of rare and unusual reptiles for over 15 years. I've had some pretty super results because I explored other options and didn't consider some of the printed information on keeping to be the only option.

An example is the unusual Hydrosaurus Amboinensis lizards. This is my beloved George. I had him for a very long time and he was four feet long when full grown. I cried for a week after he passed away:



I've gone a bit out of the norm with the now pretty common Crested Geckos. Everything I read said they don't need UVB. People keep them in plastic "sweater boxes" or keepers with no UVB. But all the books and the forums are full of information about MBD and the dreaded "calcium crash". I know they are nocternal but I see how they sleep. Mine sleep curled up in the leaves of potted plants. Parts of their body is exposed though. They wake up before the sun goes down and come a bit out of hiding. It made no sense to me that they received absolutely no UVB in nature. They would receive small amounts while curled up in plants, etc. I put low UVB lighting over their terrariums with a timer. They get very small doses of UVB while sleeping and when they wake up for an hour before the lights go off. Most keepers don't do this. All I can say is that after three years I have some pretty healthy geckos that have never had calcium issues after laying or a "calcium crash". And I've got lots of juvies ready to sell. I'm not going to tell other Crested Gecko keepers to change their set up to be like mine. But I sure don't want to hear that I am hurting mine when I am clearly not.

 

[PardalisGirl]

Thanks Chamelisa :0

I don't know much about Catherine but her chameleons look awesome. Take a look in her albums. She must be doing something right, no?

Thanks for the compliment. The best pictures of my collection are not in my gallery. Royden from our group did a major photo here last summer. His photos are far superior to anything I've done. One of my chams is on the cover of the forum calendar and another is this month's featured picture. I have all his pictures of my chams on my computer but don't put them in my gallery because I consider Royden to "own" the pictures. He's coming out again when the weather improves to do another session. I've got a great Sambava male and some Nosy Be males I want him to capture

 

[chamelisa]

Thanks for the compliment. The best pictures of my collection are not in my gallery. Royden from our group did a major photo here last summer. His photos are far superior to anything I've done. One of my chams is on the cover of the forum calendar and another is this month's featured picture. I have all his pictures of my chams on my computer but don't put them in my gallery because I consider Royden to "own" the pictures. He's coming out again when the weather improves to do another session. I've got a great Sambava male and some Nosy Be males I want him to capture

Pretty house too!

 

[hollypops]

Thank-you again for all replies and i agree debate is great, especially for newcomers like me. Not a bad thread for a first one lol.

Pardilisgirl- please can you tell me how to find your albums, would love to see your pictures but i cant find them!! I am probably looking in wrong place, where do i look after i click on your name?

Thanks and keep replies coming everyone as i am learning so much already!

Donnaxx

 

[hollypops]

oh and i forgot to add that my tube will be 2-3 inches away from base of canopy that fits on mesh.

It sounds like yours pardalisgirl- has 2 switches like yours too. It has silver reflectors inside the canopy behind where the tubes go.

 

[summoner12]

Good luck to you

Some reading: Link

 

[chamelisa]

Thanks for the compliment. The best pictures of my collection are not in my gallery. Royden from our group did a major photo here last summer. His photos are far superior to anything I've done. One of my chams is on the cover of the forum calendar and another is this month's featured picture. I have all his pictures of my chams on my computer but don't put them in my gallery because I consider Royden to "own" the pictures. He's coming out again when the weather improves to do another session. I've got a great Sambava male and some Nosy Be males I want him to capture

Your chameleons are picture perfect.

I have a question. How do you water your chameleons? I was thinking those animals look well hydrated but it usually takes tons of misting to do that and you have your cages on nice furniture.

I had a friend who kept her chameleons well hydrated by giving them water by pipette every day in addition to a misting system.

Do you hand mist every chameleon? I'm a wimp, that would hurt my hands.

 

[blackbetty]

I get to put my chams outside two months a year. It's not an everyday thing here even then. And I make every bit of use out of that time period I can. I rotate them all out there which takes a lot of time.

Lots of people on the forum have the same problem though. All I can say is that what I do works for me. But I've never said it was the only way to go. It's clear that lots of people make the 5.0 work great for them. They've got things set up to make it work. And I think that's great. I just think there is more than one way to do a lot of things successfully. I also don't think there is anything wrong with experienced people exploring options outside what is printed or commonly considered a "rule". I've been keeping a variety of rare and unusual reptiles for over 15 years. I've had some pretty super results because I explored other options and didn't consider some of the printed information on keeping to be the only option.

An example is the unusual Hydrosaurus Amboinensis lizards. This is my beloved George. I had him for a very long time and he was four feet long when full grown. I cried for a week after he passed away:

View attachment 9939 View attachment 9940

I've gone a bit out of the norm with the now pretty common Crested Geckos. Everything I read said they don't need UVB. People keep them in plastic "sweater boxes" or keepers with no UVB. But all the books and the forums are full of information about MBD and the dreaded "calcium crash". I know they are nocternal but I see how they sleep. Mine sleep curled up in the leaves of potted plants. Parts of their body is exposed though. They wake up before the sun goes down and come a bit out of hiding. It made no sense to me that they received absolutely no UVB in nature. They would receive small amounts while curled up in plants, etc. I put low UVB lighting over their terrariums with a timer. They get very small doses of UVB while sleeping and when they wake up for an hour before the lights go off. Most keepers don't do this. All I can say is that after three years I have some pretty healthy geckos that have never had calcium issues after laying or a "calcium crash". And I've got lots of juvies ready to sell. I'm not going to tell other Crested Gecko keepers to change their set up to be like mine. But I sure don't want to hear that I am hurting mine when I am clearly not.

George is AMAZING!! I have never seen a reptile like that. Thank you so much for sharing!!