MUMMA2WLDTHINGS
New Member
Hello! I am brand new at caring for reptiles, but am a devoted and relentless researcher when it comes to rescuing & rehabbing animals.
We currently have 2 ferrets, a new red bearded dragon and a Great Dane. I have a busy household with 5 kids - one of whom wanted a beardie for Xmas.
While searching for the perfect beardie for him, I came a cross a really ill-kempt pet store. There was a tiny cage with several baby chameleons in it, right on the counter next to the register. It was the small all-screen cage, had 2 lights, a fake plant and that was it. Over the course of a month, I went in an observed the chameleons, thinking they might be a good pet for my son. I went in at different times of the day and never once saw food or any source of water in the cage. Every single leaf on the fake plant had multiple droppings on it, and the astro turf grass was covered with them, as well. All the animals in the store live in these conditions and a search for the store on Yelp shows dozens of horrible reviews for sick and dying/dead animals.
By the end of the 4 weeks, they were down to 2 chameleons. They told me they were 8 weeks old a week ago. The male was super scrawny with sunken eyes. You could see every rib and he was always very dark and lethargic. The little female was usually lighter and appeared to be plumper around the middle, but was also lethargic. Her eyes were not sunken. They would not sit under the light together and hissed at and pushed each other.
I asked to hold her every time I went in, to see what her disposition was like. I saw no signs of infection, injury, deformity, joint swelling or stress color changes, though she was handled very roughly by staff. In all the 4 weeks I had been looking at reptiles in all the local stores, these were the only 2 that had not grown nor shed.
Her personality is wonderful, and I fell in love and rescue mode with her and knew I had to save her. By the time I went in to get her after researching and setting up for her, the male wasn't visible in the cage. When I asked to compare her size to his, the staff person found him on the bottom of the cage, black and lifeless.
I got her home 5 days ago. The first thing I did was mist her cage and she drank copiously. She fell asleep with her head right in the middle of a big drop of water. She basically slept the 1st 24 hours, day and night. She fell off her branches repeatedly. Once she fell face first into the soil of her live (safe and organic soil only) potted plant. it was the only time I've seen her turn dark with stress. Then she started rubbing her eye on everything after that, so I carefully and gently flushed her little eyes thoroughly and she hasn't rubbed them since.
She didn't poop for 48 hours and she wouldn't eat. They said they were feeding her medium crickets, but she is so incredibly tiny, everyone else I have shown her pics to locally said she could only manage pinhead crickets. Nobody here has that size, so I tried to syringe feed her some Flukers Repta boost. She did amazingly well with it and ate a lot. She pooped afterward and actually climbed the screen ceiling of her cage and stayed awake for an hour or so.
That was Day 3 of owning her and today is Day 5 and she still sleeps almost 24 hours. She will keep her eyes closed even when walking and walk right off her branches or ledges. She showed tracking and stalking behaviors initially when put with crickets, but then backed off when she focused on them. I've gotten 2 week old crickets and think she should be able to eat those. In the meantime, we've made our own cricket habitat/ecosystem and are hoping to have our own pinheads soon. I read that sometimes a cricket can bite them and they can become afraid of them. I've tried everything to help her eat them. I put her in with one. I put her in with 5. I put them in her big cage. I put them near, I put them far. I hold them under a small plant, with her above them. I put her down level with them. I put them both in my hand. I've tried worms - wax and meal. Both are way too big. I've cut them into pieces. She wasn't interested at all. I've tried flightless fruit flies. She acts like they don't exist. I've held a baby cricket in tweezers and rubbed it all over her mouth. Her head turns black, like she's stressed.
But when I syringe feed her, I don't force it, she opens her mouth like a baby bird repeatedly and swallows, no stress colors or behaviors. I have to be patient and gentle and drip some on her mouth for a bit before she gets it and starts eating. I also notice that she will walk right on top of the crickets, like she doesn't see them.
I was making a video to put on youtube to ask for help or ideas when I finally realized that she is acting blind.
She has perfect looking eyes. Hydrated, fully mobile, they come together for depth perception...she just doesn't open them that often b/c she's always sleepy/lethargic.
I think I'm doing everything right. I researched for over a month before we got her. I will answer the 'help' questions about what we're doing under this. I made a video and have lots of pics, but haven't gotten the video on youtube yet. It's quite long and a bit rambly, I haven't figured out how to upload or edit it down yet. I will try to attach the pics with this post.
Thanks in advance for any info/insights or advice. I can't get her to eat or drink at all today and am beginning to panic that I don't know how long she should be on this Fluker's diet, if she's going blind due to anything I'm doing wrong, if I should stop feeding her and let her get hungry enough to hunt her own food, how long I should wait for her to do that if I think she's weak before she might get so weak I can't save her, or what! I don't see any signs that tell me to get her to the vet yet - this could all be just stress of the big move and trying to catch up from the neglect of the pet store, but I'm hoping people here will let me know if I'm missing something.
Her name is Kaiju and she's the dearest little thing, I really hope I can help her. Thanks again for helping me learn how.
Chameleon Info:
Cage Info:
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
~Could she be blind?
~Does it sound like she won't survive?
~Am I doing something wrong?
We currently have 2 ferrets, a new red bearded dragon and a Great Dane. I have a busy household with 5 kids - one of whom wanted a beardie for Xmas.
While searching for the perfect beardie for him, I came a cross a really ill-kempt pet store. There was a tiny cage with several baby chameleons in it, right on the counter next to the register. It was the small all-screen cage, had 2 lights, a fake plant and that was it. Over the course of a month, I went in an observed the chameleons, thinking they might be a good pet for my son. I went in at different times of the day and never once saw food or any source of water in the cage. Every single leaf on the fake plant had multiple droppings on it, and the astro turf grass was covered with them, as well. All the animals in the store live in these conditions and a search for the store on Yelp shows dozens of horrible reviews for sick and dying/dead animals.
By the end of the 4 weeks, they were down to 2 chameleons. They told me they were 8 weeks old a week ago. The male was super scrawny with sunken eyes. You could see every rib and he was always very dark and lethargic. The little female was usually lighter and appeared to be plumper around the middle, but was also lethargic. Her eyes were not sunken. They would not sit under the light together and hissed at and pushed each other.
I asked to hold her every time I went in, to see what her disposition was like. I saw no signs of infection, injury, deformity, joint swelling or stress color changes, though she was handled very roughly by staff. In all the 4 weeks I had been looking at reptiles in all the local stores, these were the only 2 that had not grown nor shed.
Her personality is wonderful, and I fell in love and rescue mode with her and knew I had to save her. By the time I went in to get her after researching and setting up for her, the male wasn't visible in the cage. When I asked to compare her size to his, the staff person found him on the bottom of the cage, black and lifeless.
I got her home 5 days ago. The first thing I did was mist her cage and she drank copiously. She fell asleep with her head right in the middle of a big drop of water. She basically slept the 1st 24 hours, day and night. She fell off her branches repeatedly. Once she fell face first into the soil of her live (safe and organic soil only) potted plant. it was the only time I've seen her turn dark with stress. Then she started rubbing her eye on everything after that, so I carefully and gently flushed her little eyes thoroughly and she hasn't rubbed them since.
She didn't poop for 48 hours and she wouldn't eat. They said they were feeding her medium crickets, but she is so incredibly tiny, everyone else I have shown her pics to locally said she could only manage pinhead crickets. Nobody here has that size, so I tried to syringe feed her some Flukers Repta boost. She did amazingly well with it and ate a lot. She pooped afterward and actually climbed the screen ceiling of her cage and stayed awake for an hour or so.
That was Day 3 of owning her and today is Day 5 and she still sleeps almost 24 hours. She will keep her eyes closed even when walking and walk right off her branches or ledges. She showed tracking and stalking behaviors initially when put with crickets, but then backed off when she focused on them. I've gotten 2 week old crickets and think she should be able to eat those. In the meantime, we've made our own cricket habitat/ecosystem and are hoping to have our own pinheads soon. I read that sometimes a cricket can bite them and they can become afraid of them. I've tried everything to help her eat them. I put her in with one. I put her in with 5. I put them in her big cage. I put them near, I put them far. I hold them under a small plant, with her above them. I put her down level with them. I put them both in my hand. I've tried worms - wax and meal. Both are way too big. I've cut them into pieces. She wasn't interested at all. I've tried flightless fruit flies. She acts like they don't exist. I've held a baby cricket in tweezers and rubbed it all over her mouth. Her head turns black, like she's stressed.
But when I syringe feed her, I don't force it, she opens her mouth like a baby bird repeatedly and swallows, no stress colors or behaviors. I have to be patient and gentle and drip some on her mouth for a bit before she gets it and starts eating. I also notice that she will walk right on top of the crickets, like she doesn't see them.
I was making a video to put on youtube to ask for help or ideas when I finally realized that she is acting blind.
She has perfect looking eyes. Hydrated, fully mobile, they come together for depth perception...she just doesn't open them that often b/c she's always sleepy/lethargic.
I think I'm doing everything right. I researched for over a month before we got her. I will answer the 'help' questions about what we're doing under this. I made a video and have lots of pics, but haven't gotten the video on youtube yet. It's quite long and a bit rambly, I haven't figured out how to upload or edit it down yet. I will try to attach the pics with this post.
Thanks in advance for any info/insights or advice. I can't get her to eat or drink at all today and am beginning to panic that I don't know how long she should be on this Fluker's diet, if she's going blind due to anything I'm doing wrong, if I should stop feeding her and let her get hungry enough to hunt her own food, how long I should wait for her to do that if I think she's weak before she might get so weak I can't save her, or what! I don't see any signs that tell me to get her to the vet yet - this could all be just stress of the big move and trying to catch up from the neglect of the pet store, but I'm hoping people here will let me know if I'm missing something.
Her name is Kaiju and she's the dearest little thing, I really hope I can help her. Thanks again for helping me learn how.
Chameleon Info:
- Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
- ~Veiled, Female, approx 8 weeks. 5 Days.
- Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
~Daily for syringe feeding and hydration/misting under a leaf. Sometimes to check if she's still alive. - Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
~Currently Flukers ReptaBoost 1x daily via syringe. Approx 1/3 -3/4 of a CC. She's refusing the crickets, which we are gut loading with organic grass, greens, carrot shreds, apple dusted w/ vitamin C and Fluker's Orange Cube Cricket Care. - Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
~Zoo Med Reptivite for multi vitamins twice monthly when she starts eating insects - haven't given yet because she won't eat insects. Zoo Med Repti Calcium daily or 5x weekly when she starts eating insects. Haven't given yet as she's not eating insects. (Should I be mixing into ReptiBoost?) - Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
~Misting 2-3x daily with warm water. I have to hold her under a leaf and let it drip directly onto her mouth for her to drink, she acts like she can't see the drops. I also have a homemade dripper, but she's never found the leaf it drips onto and doesn't move around enough to do so. - Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
~No parasite testing. This is Day 5 and I've found 3 droppings. They are pale and very sticky, drying to a cream color and usually circular in shape. They will stick to her tail and I will have to wipe them off. I have started to soak her in warm water up to her shoulders for 10-15 minutes in the evening to increase her hydration, thinking the very sticky poops might be a sign of dehydration. She turns almost white in the warm water and relaxes so much, she will float right off my finger and swim back to it to hold on. She seems to really enjoy it. - History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
~See above.
Cage Info:
- Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
~All screen, 16" Wx 16" D x 30" H, filled with Pothos plants completely so there is only 12-14" of open space. All repotted in organic soil and only organic soil used in store. - Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
~Basking: Zoo Med 75w bulb UVB: Zoo Med 26w twisty/curly (should I have gotten the tube?) in a deep dual Zoo Med metal hood. No night warming bulb use. (But I do have one. Should I be using it?) 12 hours with lights, 12 hours without -(9 am on, 9 pm off). - Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
~Upper level temps can get up to 90 if it's a bright sunny day, as the room she's in is full of massive windows, but are usually around 75-80. 12-14" lower, I have a perch for her that she doesn't fall off of. It's usually 8 - 10 degrees cooler there. I don't use a warming light at night and the temp is always right around 60- 65 degrees. I have a dual Zoo Med thermometer near the top of the cage for temp and humidity. - Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
~ Usually 40- 50% in between mistings, 70-75% during and after mistings. I mist an entire bottle of very warm water into the cage 2-3 x daily. - Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
~Mostly Pothos right now, but I also have Ficus, Plumeria and Bougainvillea I have tried in the cage, all repotted into fresh organic soil, only grown in organic soil and rinsed well and checked for pests - and dethorned. - Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
~About 3' off floor in laundry room, next to a window. (Fragrance free laundry products only in our home - soap nuts) No vents or fans, about 6' from washer and dryer. We have a very large and cold house, so this is the warmest room in the house. Traffic is moderate to high as we have 5 kids (8-16), but she comes from a pet store where she lived on the counter next to the cash register with high traffic and frequent handling. She comes to open hands and does not appear to be stressed when looked at or handled. She has only hissed twice in our home - once at the dog and once at my husband's hairy arm when she climbed up from his hand. I have tried moving her cage over this 5 days to find the best place for her. - Location - Where are you geographically located?
~The PNW - OR
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
~Could she be blind?
~Does it sound like she won't survive?
~Am I doing something wrong?
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