Need some info / help deciding

[kfactor]

I can't find a veiled any were but a pet shop here will order me one but I like getting my chams from a breeder .I seen a Cham in there last week in with a water dragon and stuff that's what throws me off from getting one from there what should I do get it from there and pick it up as soon as he's in or just wait and get one from a breed if I can find one

 

[PREACHAP]

WELL you could inquire to them where they get it from and really push for the info you want. or wait and get it from a breeder either way your being cautious in choosing which is smart from the get-go so best of luck either way

 

[cloverthechameleon]

pet shops get them from breeders, the pet stores are the ones who care for the animals poorly, so if you order it it should be healthy.

 

[laurie]

Where are you located? Maybe we have a breeder on the forum who is near you. Or take a look at the chams for sale in our classifieds.

 

[Elizadolots]

Or, check the sponsors. Many of them sell chameleons and if they sucked, you can bet they would not get to remain sponsors for long.

 

[DanSB]

Listen to Laurie and Eliza, they are very wise.

I would not give business to a pet store that is not properly caring for animals on principal. There is no advantage from buying from them on a special order. You will wind up paying more and giving money to people who don't deserve it, they will do nothing that having it shipped directly to you will not do.

The only time I would buy from a paet store is if they have demonstrated excellent animal care, will back the animal, give support after purchase, and have it in stock so you can examine it first and pick what you are getting.

Other than that I would order either from a site sponsor here (because they support one of my favorite web sites and have good track records), a person here who is breeding exactly what i want because they are part of the chameleon community and i would have more information on them, and finally if those options didn't work out for what i wanted i would seek out a well reviewed breeder / seller / online store on one of the popular reptile classified web sites.

Under no circumstances would i order from the crummy store just to give them a cut of the sale.

 

[ibdragons]

I understand people don't like petshops cuz they don't know anything about chameleons ,but in this case maybe u should rescue one from their ignorance. They feed them mealworms to the baby veileds and they are hard to digest. You will be saving a chameleon.

 

[DanSB]

I understand people don't like petshops cuz they don't know anything about chameleons ,but in this case maybe u should rescue one from their ignorance. They feed them mealworms to the baby veileds and they are hard to digest. You will be saving a chameleon.

So specifically don't give money to someone who is a responsible and good breeder or supplier to "Rescue" an animal of questionable health at the same time supporting the practice of poor animal care?

I may not have a degree in logic but this just seems like a bad idea to me.

 

[Psychobunny]

FL Chams still has babie and juvie male/female veileds for sale and a good price.
That's where I got mine, and he is very healthy and nice.

That is, if you dont mind paying for the live shipping.
But a breeder is where you want to buy from. Just do some research first.

LLL Reptiles also has them, but I have never ordered live animals from them before, so I can not give a personal recommendation.

 

[Kmw]

So specifically don't give money to someone who is a responsible and good breeder or supplier to "Rescue" an animal of questionable health at the same time supporting the practice of poor animal care?

I may not have a degree in logic but this just seems like a bad idea to me.

But it's taking your anger with the petshop out on the wrong party. The chameleon suffers - not the petshop.

 

[ibdragons]

Thanks Kmw ,my belief is not to buy from a petshop but to save a baby cham from the pet shop . I'm for our sponsor breeders ,but if we can save alil life then why not.I personally buy from breeders but my veiled looked like he was in the houlocast at a pet shop and even though he digs his nails into my hand like to inflict pain,he is at my place having to pick from Crix,horned,silk,supers, or dubias versus mealworms.
I do not mean to take away from our breeders,u might think so ,I just want whats best for our chams.

 

[Carlton]

But it's taking your anger with the petshop out on the wrong party. The chameleon suffers - not the petshop.

Wait, wait...no one intends to take their anger out on the cham!

What we mean is...by refusing to buy a poorly treated SINGLE animal at the ignorant pet shop we are making it less likely that the shop will mistreat other chams in future. If they can't sell their sick animals they'll get no profit and eventually stop trying to fill that market. Future chams (and there could be a lot of them) will not suffer at that particular shop.

So, that SINGLE cham may end up suffering a bit longer or even dying. Chances are it will be bought by another ignorant buyer and still end up in trouble. Yes, it is sad, very hard to do, and walking away from it is very hard on our hearts, but the point is, we as cham keepers are trying to send pet shops a message....don't offer animals you can't treat properly or educate buyers about correctly. We are telling these businesses that they are irresponsible and cruel, and we will REFUSE to support their business.

By "rescueing" that particular cham you will just reward the ignorant pet shop for mistreating their animals...you are handing them money.

A true rescue would be to ask the shop to give the sick animal to you for humane reasons before it dies on their hands. DO NOT PAY FULL PRICE WHATEVER YOU DO!

 

[Kmw]

If one person doesn't another will though.
And the chances that the someone who ends up with that poor baby won't know how to take care of it.
Because most people who know how they are supposed to be treated see how the pet shop is with them
and opt to buy it from breeders. So the less informed people who want chameleons because they are cool
support the pet shop and take the cham from one place that treats it like crap, to another.

 

[Carlton]

Thanks Kmw ,my belief is not to buy from a petshop but to save a baby cham from the pet shop . I'm for our sponsor breeders ,but if we can save alil life then why not.I personally buy from breeders but my veiled looked like he was in the houlocast at a pet shop and even though he digs his nails into my hand like to inflict pain,he is at my place having to pick from Crix,horned,silk,supers, or dubias versus mealworms.
I do not mean to take away from our breeders,u might think so ,I just want whats best for our chams.

What is BEST for our chams is to refuse buying them from ignorant and careless businesses. Every time you hand them money you reward them for their mistreatment. Do you realize that almost 40% of pet animal sales are due to customer PITY at mistreatment???? It all comes down to "big picture" thinking. The best thing we can do for chams as a captive or wild population is to support responsible care and breeding and boycott the bad sellers. If you walk in to a pet shop and see an obviously sick or doomed cham, your responsible options are:

1. Tell the shop they are treating their animal cruelly and that you will report them to the local animal welfare agency, and also that you will refuse to buy ANYTHING at the shop in future. I don't just mean animals, I mean supplies, feeders, etc. Hit them where it hurts...their cash flow.

2. Talk to their manager, tell them the cham (their stock) is going to die unless its care changes. Offer to rescue the cham but either pay a minimum (telling them you'll need vet care and a lot of effort or medications to save it) price or not pay anything.

 

[ibdragons]

I see ur guys point ,I do talk to the managers though.,there was a gravid panther and they had a half inch dish with one quarter inch of sand for her to lay eggs.I talked to the managers and they put her in a bucket with 12 in of soil. Thanks for your views I guess we would be rewarding them. I have gotten two from lll reptiles and they are beautiful animals .so there is some places that do know there stuff

 

[Carlton]

I see ur guys point ,I do talk to the managers though.,there was a gravid panther and they had a half inch dish with one quarter inch of sand for her to lay eggs.I talked to the managers and they put her in a bucket with 12 in of soil. Thanks for your views I guess we would be rewarding them. I have gotten two from lll reptiles and they are beautiful animals .so there is some places that do know there stuff

You can always try to work with a shop. Some who are totally clueless about chams; maybe the one they have is their first; and want to learn will listen and you can provide them a great source of care info. Cultivating a good relationship with a shop is the best for everyone! The key to that is to be polite, offer them care info from a respected source (such as this forum, a CURRENT book, or a good breeder website) so they can check that what you say is backed up by others. After all, they don't know you at this point and have no real reason to believe you. I've built good relationships with small shops and ended up doing cage design demonstrations for them, given little programs about cham biology and husbandry for customers, helped customers find a good cham and all the supplies they'll need, offered help and advice to buyers, help the shop stock the right supplies if they don't already, and steer them toward good herp vets, etc. It can really be fun to do.

 

[DanSB]

I agree with everything Carlton said so instead of reading a long post from me just re-read his!

 

[kfactor]

Thanks for all the responds I wish I lived in the USA u guys have so many good places to choose from I live in saskatchewan we don't have much to choose from and I have emailed some place and I ether get no respond or they just say shipping would be to much. It took me 4 months to find my first Cham I just wish we had more here