Need Melleri advice

[chamlover]

As you probably already know, i rescued a melleri about 6 weeks ago. He was doing really good and went from 110 gr to 176 gr in that time. I decided he was healthy enough to go into a bigger cage in order to gain strentgh in his muscles, however, since i've done that his eating habits have decreased and he has lost alot of weight, he's down to 136 gr. What do you think is going on? Should i put him back into a smaller cage? I did expect about 1 week worth of acclimation time, but it has been almost 2 weeks now and his eating habits still arent better. I don't know what to do. Before he was eating 10-12 crickets a day and maybe 1-2 hornworms. Now he won't eat hornworms, roaches, and he is only eating maybe 3 3/4" crickets a day. Do you think it is because he is exercising and moving around? When we first got him he was so skinny i didn't want him to have to look for his food so we put him in a 14x 14 x 30 cage, we also didn't know if he was strong enough to climb either. Now he is in a 24 x 24 x 48 cage and has to work for his food. I've tried cup feeding but he won't eat from a cup.

Debby

 

[studiocham]

That is a lot of weight to lose in a short time. How is he drinking? I think you are seeing the classic cage-change stress. It would have been better to leave him in the first cage, get him adjusted to bucket feeding, then move him with the same bucket to the new cage. Melleri show stress from new environments/territories by dropping weight. What is his color like these days?

Why are you offering 3/4" instead of adult crix? When I have adults on maintenance (not breeding) diet, 3 adult crix is just fine per day.

I'm not sure what "1 week of acclimation time" means- to the new cage?

He has only been in this country about 8 weeks total, or so? I don't even consider melleri acclimated until they have been in one home or cage for 12 weeks or 90 days.

How high up in the room is his highest perch? Can he perch above the eye level of any people in the room? I'm trying to think of little changes in the new cage that may be contributing to the anorexia. Did he get to keep any of his old perches from the first cage? Are the lights in the same place?

 

[Sepioteuthis]

I can't recall, did you have this guy checked / treated for parasites?
That's definitely a considerable weight loss. Especially since he is still eating.

 

[chamlover]

First, I am offering 3/4" because that is what i order for all my guys. That way i get to feed them off before they die.

Sampson was with the dealer for almost 2 mos before i got him, so he has actually been here for at least 3 1/2 mos.

He is in the same room, which only i go into and only when i am feeding or watering the animals in there. Usually no one else or no other animals, cats or dogs, are in that room. I did not give him any of the perches because they were all too small. I never bother to cup feed any of my animals, they are all free-ranged unless their cage is not insect proof, which most are. He is way above eye level, the bottom of his cage is almost 3 ft off the floor. I was very surprised to see that amount of weight loss also and i didn't expect that much stress in changing him to a bigger cage, i thought he would like it better. Lights are different as well. I would expect it to be another problem if i try putting him back into his old cage, right? And besdes i have already taken it apart and cleaned and sterilized it. I think it probably is a good idea to have another fecal done too. The first one came back clean, but i'm sure that was incorrect. I will plan on doing that the next time he co-operates.

Do you have any suggestions that would help him adjust? His color is perfect, in fact i will go take a pic now.

 

[studiocham]

First, I am offering 3/4" because that is what i order for all my guys. That way i get to feed them off before they die.

How long is Sampson? I understand the convenience of only buying one size of crix, but these giants don't always eat the staple of roaches. Even some of my WCs have showed their disdain by spitting them out. I have to use adult crix for them. The big, gravid females are excellent for low fat protein to maintain condition. I get around the die-off by ordering a portion of adults and a portion of 3/4-inchers to raise up. The 3/4" crix are no replacement for the gravid adult crix, and 3/4" is an unattractive size to all but the most hungry of melleri adults. It's like feeding a starving person a roast button quail instead of a big turkey dinner. Like the quail being more bones to pick around for little bits of meat, the 3/4" crix are more surface area (= undigestable chitin) than the egg-filled adult crix. The adult melleri does more work digesting 3/4" crix for less metabolic payoff.

Sampson was with the dealer for almost 2 mos before i got him, so he has actually been here for at least 3 1/2 mos.

I'm afraid I wasn't clear enough: at a dealer's, they aren't getting individual TLC like showers and a counted prey. Sampson hasn't had the good life with you for very long, and he's probably still adjusting... and then (in his eyes) you went and changed everything that was his own world. It could very well be another month of adjusting to the new cage.

He is in the same room, which only i go into and only when i am feeding or watering the animals in there. Usually no one else or no other animals, cats or dogs, are in that room. I did not give him any of the perches because they were all too small. I never bother to cup feed any of my animals, they are all free-ranged unless their cage is not insect proof, which most are.

It's very good that he has the same room as before. Sudden weight loss like this is one reason why I try to bucket or bowl feed every new WC. I count how much they eat per feeding, or per day. I like to get a lot of food in them at first because they are losing some food value o their parasites until al are eradicated. When they either become shameless bucket gluttons or are clean of parasites, I start the management diet.

He is way above eye level, the bottom of his cage is almost 3 ft off the floor.

Excellent!!

I was very surprised to see that amount of weight loss also and i didn't expect that much stress in changing him to a bigger cage, i thought he would like it better. Lights are different as well. I would expect it to be another problem if i try putting him back into his old cage, right?

The different lights may also be part of what is new and disorienting. Wild chams live by light, their days are governed by it, and when it starts suddenly coming from a new corner or changes intensity or hue, it is noticeable to them. An example of hyper-specificity in WCs: my two WC girls became upset last week when I adjusted their free-range perches a bit higher, and added a vertical branch. They became spotty, and took turns sitting on the changed perches, then hanging on the new vertical, making the new things their own, for hours.

And besdes i have already taken it apart and cleaned and sterilized it. I think it probably is a good idea to have another fecal done too. The first one came back clean, but i'm sure that was incorrect. I will plan on doing that the next time he co-operates.

Sampson sure is a pretty beast, even though he's on the skinny side. Definitely have a vet do a fecal, he may have had a parasite bloom. To help him adjust, I'd get a small order of adult crix (Ghann's sells them in 500 lots now), gutload them, count out about ten, and put them (with gutload) in a big, green or white bucket near a perch. I'd also net some butterflies and let those loose in the cage. Leave him where he's at, any further change could be too hard on him.

There is a recurring interest in convenience in your reply, and I totally get where you're coming from. This species can be a huge challenge to our sense of order and "how things should go", especially when you have other, more easily-managed chams in your collection. I applaud your rescue effort, and hope that the inconveniences are balanced by a cham well worth the extra trouble and money.

 

[chamlover]

Thank you Kristina. Don't misunderstand me, i am all for convenience, however i will go to whatever means are necessary to help my guys. Whether they are rescues or not, doesn't matter, they get whatever they need, no matter how much trouble it is. My hubby thinks i go overboard too much for my guys, but the way i feel about it is they are not in the wild because of our choice not theirs and their life and well-being is completely in our hands. I always go for convenience if that is what works but if not, they get what they need and whatever will make them happy and healthy. My other melleri doesn't eat crickets at all only roaches, hornworms, and silkworms so i never thought of a 3/4" cricket as being a stingy meal. Thank you for sharing that info and i have already ordered larger crickets. How do you tell if the female crickets are gravid? I was also considering starting him off on Panacur as well just in case.

Debby

 

[studiocham]

How do you tell if the female crickets are gravid? I was also considering starting him off on Panacur as well just in case.

Debby

Panacur (fenbendazole) is an excellent choice, it is a lot easier on chams than other parasite meds. It's a good one to start with to get rid of the "background" parasites, then move on to stronger meds when his weight is up.

Female crickets, once they hit a certain size, are almost always gravid, and die after laying eggs (or for lack of a place to lay them). They are the long, fat crix with the long ovipositor (looks like a single tail). If you squeeze one too hard, narrow, clear eggs will pop out. Feed out the females first, as the males live longer. It makes the order last a bit longer.