Need help with fogger

LordChlup

New Member
Hello, i own a veiled chameleon he might be around 6motnhs old from pet store and recently i bought him a digital fogger with timer from repti planet.

IMG_20211014_160827.jpg
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I plan to leave house for 2 days so my first question is is this enough for him as water goes? I set to every 4hours for half an hour of fogging so i dont need to be afraid he need any more for drinking a water? Also when the fogger starts doing the fog on a live plant my chameleon seems afraid of it and starts climbing the walls of terrarium.

IMG_20211016_131044.jpg

Before this i had him for 3months just spraying water by hand he was also irritated but stayed inside the sleeping area with on the left corner with fake plants to hide. The fog comes from top where the lights are so its centered on the live plant.

So my main question are is the fogger enough for him to drink water and stay hydrated so i dont have to hand spray him?
And second question is that normal behavior that he climbs on walls like that away from every plant and sticks?
 

nightanole

Chameleon Enthusiast
The fog people say fog only at night, when the low air temps kick in, for a few hours. that should be enough to keep them hydrated. No foggin during the day.

And yes no matter how good the setup looks to you, they will go to the most uncomfortable place in the cage, just to spite you. They will litterally hang out on the mister nozzles, just so they can angle it onto your floor. Never trust a chameleon. They are like cats, they just watch you, waiting, always waiting....
 

bbyoda

Chameleon Enthusiast
The screen climbing is potentially a sign that the chameleon is unhappy with the setup: https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-behavior-screen-walking-or-glass-pawing/

You'll want a mister in addition to the fogger. https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-cage-set-up-naturalistic-hydration/

Do you have a linear UVB bulb? I'm just seeing two screw in compact bulbs in the photo you shared.

Members here are happy to review your husbandry. There's a help form you can fill out so we can give detailed advice.
 

LordChlup

New Member
Do you have a linear UVB bulb? I'm just seeing two screw in compact bulbs in the photo you shared.
I only have a compact UVB and Day Light for warmth in that double bulb holder.

This fogger if i want it automatic it goes of maximum every 4 hours i cant do it like every day from 2-4 so either not ideal or wasted money.

He is probably just afraid of the fog because once the fogger stops he goes back on the sticks. Maybe i just have to move more on the opposite side of his hiding place.
 

bbyoda

Chameleon Enthusiast
I only have a compact UVB and Day Light for warmth in that double bulb holder.

This fogger if i want it automatic it goes of maximum every 4 hours i cant do it like every day from 2-4 so either not ideal or wasted money.

He is probably just afraid of the fog because once the fogger stops he goes back on the sticks. Maybe i just have to move more on the opposite side of his hiding place.
Got it. You'll want a T5 10.0 HO Reptisun UVB bulb or an Arcadia 6%. This is crucial for growing chameleons as they need to process their nutrients and calcium correctly or they will develop Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD). I think your cage might be a bit too small based on the light sizes. 2x2x4 is what he needs.

For the fogger, mine is similar. You just need to connect it to a timer and have it go off at night. It's important to only run the fogger if your temps are 65 degrees or lower. Else you risk them developing a respiratory infection.

Here's the timer I got. It's a two pack. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07X51KHQ...abc_RET2NKNNMMV97RBSQCHJ?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

I'm going to copy and paste the husbandry form here in a moment. The idea is that every one thing is connected to everything else with Cham keeping. So it's important to know your whole situation and setup when giving some advice.
 

bbyoda

Chameleon Enthusiast
First off welcome to the forum and giving us this change to help you and help your chameleon be happy and healthy. Here's the husbandry form. I'm still a beginner so once you fill this out I'll tap in more experienced keepers who are great at giving feedback. The more info the better! :)

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:
The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
Photos can be very helpful.
 

Klyde O'Scope

Chameleon Enthusiast
Think about it, no other lizard looks like its planning something, and just waiting for you leave. At best snakes are just waiting to pop the lid off and go on adventures in the couch.
Oh, I have thought about it—incessantly! 🤪 That's why I live in a lead-lined bunker hewn in situ from solid granite, one mile beneath Project Greek Island, under Greenbrier Resort’s West Virginia Wing! 🤓
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
It would be a linear T5HO fixture and a 5.0 bulb for it or 6% arcadia. This in a single bulb fixture would then be 8-9 inches away from the closest basking branch.

No fogging during the day at all. Only at night when temps are below 67. But cooler is better because they need a temp drop at night.

This is a good resource for you to learn accurate husbandry. https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/
 

DocZ

Chameleon Enthusiast
Welcome to the forum!
To answer your question, the fogger probably isn’t enough to keep your Cham hydrated. Maintaining adequate humidity (40-50% during the day, 80-100% at night) is the first key to good hydration.
I like nighttime fogging, misting after lights out and before lights on. I also use an automatic dripper a few times per day
So as far as the fogger is concerned, as mentioned earlier usually stick to fogging at night. It can be hard to hold humidity in a screen cage unless you have high ambient humidity. You can cover 3 or 4 of the sides to help stabilize conditions in the enclosure if you don’t have sufficient ambient humidity

It looks like you have a chameleon kit from zoo med. it’s a very common purchase for new keepers. Unfortunately most of the parts in it are inadequate to properly care for your chameleon and keep them healthy. You definitely have several upgrades to make for the long term care of your Cham.
definitely check out the chameleon academy. It is my favorite educational resource for Cham care.
This is a great podcast about making the Cham kit work temporarily while you upgrade to a larger properly outfitted enclosure

https://chameleonacademy.com/ep-132-making-the-chameleon-kit-work/

here’s another about transitioning from the kit to proper care

https://chameleonacademy.com/ep-171-transitioning-from-the-chameleon-kit/

these changes are really essential to the long term health of your animal. Please keep asking questions and work on getting your Cham proper care
 

LordChlup

New Member
Okay i am going to fill the husbandry form here. He is my first chameleon.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled chameleon, probably male and around 6-7moths old. I have for 4months now. Bought at July 4th 2021.
Handling - He is still very shy and doesnt want to be held, so for now i try to feed him with tweezers and i stick my fingers under him until he leaves to hide. At the beginning he was way aggressive but slowly i work on it.
Feeding - I feed him only crickets. I keep them apart and i feed them fish flakes and salad sometimes cucumber. At summer times i go outside and catch grasshoppers. I give him 5crickets every other day. Once i tried feeding him small worms he liked it but i heard they are not very nutritious.
Supplements - With every feeding while he is still young i give him repti calcium without D3 from zoomed and reptivite reptiles vitamins from zoomed. Its all mixed and the white powder get on crickets when i feed him.
Also for tap water i put in reptisave water conditioner from zoomed.
Watering - I used to hand spray him in the morning when lights came out and evening before going to sleep and in the middle of the day. Recently i bought fogger so i have to fix that with buying additional timer.
Fecal Description - They are brown sometimes bigger sometimes smaller and they stick where they fall. Other are white i guess thats the pee. From what i know he was not tested and i did not asked at the pet store.
History - He was bought at the pet store not sure how they handled him but that might be the reason he is still quite unfriendly for me and scared to get handled.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Its a sreen cage. 76x40x40 cm. Its a kit from the zoomed but i got rid off most of the leaves and decorations for different ones.
Lighting - Lights are from the zoomeds cage kit. Compact double holder for uvb and day light for heat.
Temperature - I have a thermometer in the middle of the cage its usually around 25-26°C at night we keep our room at 21°C but it might get colder
Humidity - This is the part i know the least. I dont have any measuring for that
Plants - I have one big leafy plant in the middle and top left corner is hiding place with fake plant seem he likes that one too. The cage is also form from branches that i got outside from trees
Placement - Cage is in the living room. I live just with my girlfriend and we are silent most of the day. From working at home in different room or being away from home most of the time.
Location - I live in Slovakia. Centre of Europe lets say. I am at west side of Slovakia so i am at the lower height above sea level. We have all four seasons so weather changes sometimes rapidly every 3months.

So at first my problem was if the fogger is enough water and hydration when i leave home for few days but i might have to change up more thing within the cage. I will attach some pictures for visuals. Note that the cage at first was more empty with just ficus inside that got eaten twice so the last picture with big plant and fogger is the most recent.
 

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LordChlup

New Member
It can be hard to hold humidity in a screen cage unless you have high ambient humidity. You can cover 3 or 4 of the sides to help stabilize conditions in the enclosure if you don’t have sufficient ambient humidity

Thanks for all the info you gave me so far, I used cork walls an the sides back is almost all covered and sides just on the bottom for dirt to not fall from the sides. Is that good for ambient or should i put in one more or it has no effect?
 

MzLaurie11

Established Member
Hello, i own a veiled chameleon he might be around 6motnhs old from pet store and recently i bought him a digital fogger with timer from repti planet.

View attachment 312548.
I plan to leave house for 2 days so my first question is is this enough for him as water goes? I set to every 4hours for half an hour of fogging so i dont need to be afraid he need any more for drinking a water? Also when the fogger starts doing the fog on a live plant my chameleon seems afraid of it and starts climbing the walls of terrarium.

View attachment 312549
Before this i had him for 3months just spraying water by hand he was also irritated but stayed inside the sleeping area with on the left corner with fake plants to hide. The fog comes from top where the lights are so its centered on the live plant.

So my main question are is the fogger enough for him to drink water and stay hydrated so i dont have to hand spray him?
And second question is that normal behavior that he climbs on walls like that away from every plant and sticks?
Many people say run it at night which is what i used to do. But my cham loves sitting under the fog and got mild respitory infection from sleeping under it in the dark when he gets cold. Now i put it on when the lights go on for about 20 minutes then feed him. And late afternoon for about 20-30 minutes. i think 30 minutrs every four hours is too much. Also i see you have a reptibreeze with all sides ooen. I have covered the back and one side panel with vinly and tape. Shower liners work for this and helps keep the humidity at an appropriate level. Another thing is chams like hanging out on horizontal perches and i see you only have one. I would add more at diffetent levels. You have plenty of vertical ones that you can use to put ones across with zip ties. Easy fix. If your cam likes to hide in that plant then move the fogger to an area where he doesnt hang out. I see others have gone over the setup with you and the linear uvb important! Welcome and good luck. If you are going awsy fir 2 days try 5 minutes on high every 6 hours, but dont pit it whete she likes to sit as it is stressing her out.
 

DocZ

Chameleon Enthusiast
hameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled chameleon, probably male and around 6-7moths old. I have for 4months now. Bought at July 4th 2021. From what I can make out he looks pretty. But I’d love to see more pictures of him. In the one I can see him in, he’s getting close to his compact UVB bulb. This is a good thing the affective distance for D3 synthesis in his skin is only about 3 inches from the bulb
97236E99-88E0-46DE-9AD9-EDC07C3B3BF9.jpeg

Handling - He is still very shy and doesnt want to be held, so for now i try to feed him with tweezers and i stick my fingers under him until he leaves to hide. At the beginning he was way aggressive but slowly i work on it. This is fine. Handling them too much can stress them out. I’d get his husbandry in good shape before trying to make friends with him adding more stress
Feeding - I feed him only crickets. I keep them apart and i feed them fish flakes and salad sometimes cucumber. At summer times i go outside and catch grasshoppers. I give him 5crickets every other day. Once i tried feeding him small worms he liked it but i heard they are not very nutritious. Variety is important in nutrition. Try to source as many different kinds of nutritious bugs as you can find. Roaches are nutritious, gutload well, and live a lot longer than crickets. I assume the small worms are mealworms. They’re fine, but should be gutloaded not be a major part of his diet
When gutloading your bugs, focus on nutritious greens as the base of the diet, add some veggies, and then you can a little bit to boost nutrition like bee pollen or spirulina powder. Fish food can be high in protein and really isn’t the best choice for gutloading
8DBEEE88-D9ED-443C-BE60-9ECC8D430E0E.jpeg
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As far as how much to feed, they can eat as much as they want while still growing, but frequency and number of bugs should be reduced as they begin to reach adult size. I can’t quite tell how big your Cham is, but it looks like he may have some growing to do

Supplements - With every feeding while he is still young i give him repti calcium without D3 from zoomed and reptivite reptiles vitamins from zoomed. Its all mixed and the white powder get on crickets when i feed him.
The most recommended approach to supplementation is Calcium without D3 at every feeding and multivitamin with D3 twice per month. I would stick to this regimen
The two products you have would work, but I wouldn’t mix them in the future. There’s some risk of D3 overdose, however unless your Cham is right next to his lamp, little endogenous D3 synthesis is occurring so a little extra dietary D3 may be helpful for now.
But I would still recommend purchasing calcium w/o D3 and a multivitamin w/ D3 and use them separately as advised.
I use Arcadia supplements

Also for tap water i put in reptisave water conditioner from zoomed.
This is fine in my opinion. Many will recommend against using tap water, I’m not sure I agree, but if you search about it on the forum you can read the arguments and decide for yourself
Watering - I used to hand spray him in the morning when lights came out and evening before going to sleep and in the middle of the day. Recently i bought fogger so i have to fix that with buying additional timer.
Hand misting is good and I think morning and evening are probably good times to do this.
Hydration is a complex issue. In my opinion the basis is in day/night humidity cycles. In a veiled’s natural habitat, humidity is lower during the day, maybe 40-60%, then spikes to 80-100% each night. First try to create these conditions in your enclosure. I definitely recommend getting a hygrometer to measure relative humidity in your enclosure. There are wifi enabled thermometer/hygrometers that allow you to track parameters on your phone. These are really great devices
Maintained humidity may require covering the back, sides, possibly even the main front door with some sort of plastic. Window sealing kits work well for this Adding and maintaining lots of live plants will help maintain your humidity as well
C01B985A-0312-4D99-AD8E-8E2BD2B1B9C8.jpeg

I use misting at lights out and before they come on, and possibly once at night if necessary combined with nighttime fogging and I set up an automatic dripper to run 2 or 3 times a day for a little extra water if they want it
5A5C7AEC-1423-4FAD-A7B4-BD5613F8C9FC.jpeg

With all this water you will need something underneath the cage to collect the water and drain it away to avoid floods

Fecal Description - They are brown sometimes bigger sometimes smaller and they stick where they fall. Other are white i guess thats the pee. From what i know he was not tested and i did not asked at the pet store.
His poop sounds like it looks good. Urates (the white part) that are 40% or less yellow is probably good
It is recommended that you have their poop checked for parasites

History - He was bought at the pet store not sure how they handled him but that might be the reason he is still quite unfriendly for me and scared to get handled.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Its a sreen cage. 76x40x40 cm. Its a kit from the zoomed but i got rid off most of the leaves and decorations for different ones.
At a minimum, you will need a 120x60x60 cm cage for an adult veiled chameleon. When getting a new cage consider whether a screen cage is your best option for maintaining humidity and temperature. A hybrid type cage with solid sides and front door with top and lower access door screen for proper air flow.
Lighting - Lights are from the zoomeds cage kit. Compact double holder for uvb and day light for heat.
This is something you need to change sooner rather than later. You need to purchase a linear T5HO fluorescent fixture. You’ll want get a 5.0 (Zoo med) or 6% (Arcadia) bulb. This should be raised above cage door that the bulb sits about 8-9 inches above your basking branch. If you purchase a solarmeter you can measure your UVI at the basking branch. You want it to be about a UVI of 3.
This is essential to the health of your chameleon. Improper UVB lighting will lead to the development of metabolic bone disease.
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In addition to UVB lighting, full spectrum lighting is important to maintain and grow your live plants. And of course a basking bulb is necessary to warm your Cham during the day

Temperature - I have a thermometer in the middle of the cage its usually around 25-26°C at night we keep our room at 21°C but it might get colder
These are good ambient temperatures. The drop in temp at night is great and could go even lowers without affecting your Cham negatively (lower may be even better). It’s important to measure temperature at their basking branch. Chameleons are prone to burns from their basking bulbs so placement of a temp probe at their basking branch is important. Shoot for a basking temperature of about 29.
I always use a dimming thermostat on all of my heats sources. My ambient conditions change a lot through the seasons, and this helps prevent large swings in basking temperatures in the enclosure

Humidity - This is the part i know the least. I dont have any measuring for that
I discussed this above. Get a hygrometer, decide if you need to cover some sides (I’d guess you will), add live plants, mist and fog to maintain day/night humidity cycle
Plants - I have one big leafy plant in the middle and top left corner is hiding place with fake plant seem he likes that one too. The cage is also form from branches that i got outside from trees
Veiled chameleons are notorious plant eaters. For this reason, plastic plants are not recommended. They could eat it and block up their intestinal tract
Live plants have several advantages over plastic plants as well. I’d recommend removing the plastic and adding more live plants. Lots of plants
As mentioned above, more branches would be great for the enclosure as well. I split it into thirds, top, middle, and bottom, and add horizontal branches for them to hang out on at each of these levels. Then add branches between each level as “highways” for them to move from one level to the other
593F6735-054B-4F38-BE5E-552D649FBCA3.jpeg

Some Cham safe plants to choose from
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Placement - Cage is in the living room. I live just with my girlfriend and we are silent most of the day. From working at home in different room or being away from home most of the time.
this seems fine. Elevating the cage off the ground helps the Cham feel more secure. I think they enjoy looking down on us from their perches
Location - I live in Slovakia. Centre of Europe lets say. I am at west side of Slovakia so i am at the lower height above sea level. We have all four seasons so weather changes sometimes rapidly every 3months.
I live in a location in the states with 4 seasons as well. I struggle with humidity in screen enclosures.
 
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DocZ

Chameleon Enthusiast
And while I’ve put all of this into practice. I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. I cannot recommend Bill Strand’s website more. His dedication to educating chameleon keepers is unparalleled. He is truly an expert and a huge asset to the community. Go to his website and start going through all of the content. It is superb, it’s up to date, and it is simply the best resource available

https://chameleonacademy.com/
 
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