Need Help!! Health Issues

tonguegrab813

New Member
Hello everyone. I really need some experienced keepers to help me with my husbandry. I thought I was doing everything right but then my panther cham "Plato" started developing tongue shot issues. I am thinking that it may be an eye issue because he does not have trouble shooting his tongue he just missed about a mile high and to the right everytime the range gets past his immediate view! We got him around late November. He has a good size tank for his size with a live hibiscus that he loves. We are very committed to providing him the best possible life so we are urgently asking for help. I have attached a video of how he prefers to eat now, a video of a miss, picture of his enclosure, and the supplements we use. If there are other supplements or anything else that can be done better let us know ASAP and we will make the changes.

Husbandry:
6-7 Month Old Panther Chameleon Male
Enclosure is 3 feet tall by 1.5 feet wide by 2 feet long (plan to upgrade when he gets bigger)
Live Hibiscus Plant mixed with fake vines and a dripper. Lots of foliage sometimes it’s hard to even find him.
Mist about 3 times a day: once when he wakes up (at 6am), once when we get home (4pm) and once before he sleeps (8pm)
We feed him when he wakes up, usually anywhere from 6-12 crickets. We stop when he doesn’t want anymore. We will feed him super worms here and there. Sometimes just one a day sometimes 3 if he didn’t eat as many crickets that day. We do a hornworm every 2-3 days. Lately hasn't been as hungry but still responds very happily to super worms.
Calcium without D3 every feeding. Multivitamin twice a month. D3 twice a month.
We have a linear UVB at the top and a basking light that keeps his basking area around 85-90 degrees F.
He poops every 3 days I would say, with his poop looking healthy. White urates doesn’t smell unless you put it up to your nose. He usually poops in wet areas: if the paper towel on the bottom of the cage is wet or a little pool of water on the bottom.
We got him in late November, he’s shed twice since we got him.
We plan on taking him to the vet in the next couple weeks for his annual check up and routine fecal test.
Thanks in advance for the help.


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VIDEO OF THE WAY HE EATS

VIDEO OF HIS RECENT MISS
 
Hi I’m mainly commenting to help boost this for you. My very amateur idea is it’s something with his eyes, which sometimes is a Vit A issue. Again not super well versed on this and Pre vs Pro vit A, so I’m going to step back, but I have this graphic about supplements and what is recommended
 

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tonguegrab813

New Member
Hi I’m mainly commenting to help boost this for you. My very amateur idea is it’s something with his eyes, which sometimes is a Vit A issue. Again not super well versed on this and Pre vs Pro vit A, so I’m going to step back, but I have this graphic about supplements and what is recommended

Thank you I appreciate it very much. I just want to figure out what is going on
 

CBee7726

Avid Member
So the first thing that sticks out to me is the multivitamin you are using. It contains beta carotene, which @kinyonga refers to as prOformed A. This means that the body would need to convert it to Vitamin A, which is essential for eye health. I think I've read that there is no sufficient evidence that a chameleon can process beta-carotene in this way. You'll want to switch to a multivitamin with prEformed A.

Does the multivitamin you are using also contain D3?
 

tonguegrab813

New Member
So the first thing that sticks out to me is the multivitamin you are using. It contains beta carotene, which @kinyonga refers to as prOformed A. This means that the body would need to convert it to Vitamin A, which is essential for eye health. I think I've read that there is no sufficient evidence that a chameleon can process beta-carotene in this way. You'll want to switch to a multivitamin with prEformed A.

Does the multivitamin you are using also contain D3?

I actually think it does I just looked it up and realized that, could you recommend any specific supplements? I will replace whatever needs to be replaced I would just love to know which specific ones I should get so I don't have this issue anymore
 

CBee7726

Avid Member
Also, we need some additional info in other areas as well. See my responses in red in the quote below:

Hello everyone. I really need some experienced keepers to help me with my husbandry. I thought I was doing everything right but then my panther cham "Plato" started developing tongue shot issues. I am thinking that it may be an eye issue because he does not have trouble shooting his tongue he just missed about a mile high and to the right everytime the range gets past his immediate view! We got him around late November. He has a good size tank for his size with a live hibiscus that he loves. We are very committed to providing him the best possible life so we are urgently asking for help. I have attached a video of how he prefers to eat now, a video of a miss, picture of his enclosure, and the supplements we use. If there are other supplements or anything else that can be done better let us know ASAP and we will make the changes.

Husbandry:
6-7 Month Old Panther Chameleon Male
Enclosure is 3 feet tall by 1.5 feet wide by 2 feet long (plan to upgrade when he gets bigger)
Live Hibiscus Plant mixed with fake vines and a dripper. Lots of foliage sometimes it’s hard to even find him.
Mist about 3 times a day: once when he wakes up (at 6am), once when we get home (4pm) and once before he sleeps (8pm) How long is each misting session? What is the humidity during the day, and at night?
We feed him when he wakes up, usually anywhere from 6-12 crickets. We stop when he doesn’t want anymore. We will feed him super worms here and there. Sometimes just one a day sometimes 3 if he didn’t eat as many crickets that day. We do a hornworm every 2-3 days. Lately hasn't been as hungry but still responds very happily to super worms.
Calcium without D3 every feeding. Multivitamin twice a month. D3 twice a month.
We have a linear UVB at the top and a basking light that keeps his basking area around 85-90 degrees F. What type of linear UVB is it? T8 or T5 HO? This is important.
He poops every 3 days I would say, with his poop looking healthy. White urates doesn’t smell unless you put it up to your nose. He usually poops in wet areas: if the paper towel on the bottom of the cage is wet or a little pool of water on the bottom.
We got him in late November, he’s shed twice since we got him.
We plan on taking him to the vet in the next couple weeks for his annual check up and routine fecal test. (y)
Thanks in advance for the help.
 

Thompson

Avid Member
I actually think it does I just looked it up and realized that, could you recommend any specific supplements? I will replace whatever needs to be replaced I would just love to know which specific ones I should get so I don't have this issue anymore
Ive read that the rap ashy calcium plus supplement with multivitamins is a good all-in-one supplement you can safely use for every dusting.
 

tonguegrab813

New Member
Expand the quote and see my responses in red :) I forgot to say that in the last post
Ok whoops sorry didn't realize. I mist for about 30 seconds to a minute. Enough to provide droplets and moving droplets. The humidity is 50 during the day and 70 at night/when i mist. I have a T5 HO
 

CBee7726

Avid Member
Ok whoops sorry didn't realize. I mist for about 30 seconds to a minute. Enough to provide droplets and moving droplets. The humidity is 50 during the day and 70 at night/when i mist. I have a T5 HO

I would bump those misting sessions up to 2-5 minutes each, that way it's enough time for him to start drinking and stay hydrated. What is the nighttime temp?

I actually think it does I just looked it up and realized that, could you recommend any specific supplements? I will replace whatever needs to be replaced I would just love to know which specific ones I should get so I don't have this issue anymore

Can you confirm for us that it does? If you need to, take a picture of the list of vitamins listed on the container. If this is the case, then you've been giving him too much D3.
With that being said, you can follow one of two schedules:

1. Cal w/D3 twice a month (every other week), Multivitamin w/ prEformed A and w/o D3 twice a month (alternate weeks), and Cal w/o D3 at all other feedings
or
2. Multivitamin w/ prEformed A w/D3 twice a month, Cal w/o D3 at all other feedings. You wouldn't need Cal w/D3 in this case. This schedule is easier to follow, but some people like the first schedule because it spreads the supplementation out a bit.

There's a number of products out there including Zoo Med Reptivite, but there's a lot of great products out there that some expert keepers like better. The Arcadia supplement schedule is great, but follows a different schedule, and some people like using Repashy. I'll tag a few people with more experience than me to give their input :) @kinyonga @nightanole @Beman
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
I prefer the reptivite with D3. This has preformed A and D3 together... This would be used 2 times a month and then calcium without D3 at all other feedings.

Even with what was being given it is not enough D3 to cause these issues. I am betting on a Vitamin A issue since the multi being used does not have preformed A.

Additionally basking temp is too hot... 80-85max and there is only one spot that I can see where he is directly under the UVB lighting.
Depending on the UVB fixture and bulb strength this should be adjusted IMO.
 

tonguegrab813

New Member
I prefer the reptivite with D3. This has preformed A and D3 together... This would be used 2 times a month and then calcium without D3 at all other feedings.

Even with what was being given it is not enough D3 to cause these issues. I am betting on a Vitamin A issue since the multi being used does not have preformed A.

Additionally basking temp is too hot... 80-85max and there is only one spot that I can see where he is directly under the UVB lighting.
Depending on the UVB fixture and bulb strength this should be adjusted IMO.

Ok, I will try to move the basking light higher and record if the temps go down. He spends most of his time on the vine that is underneath the UVB but it runs across the whole cage. It is a T5 HO does that make it better?

For the supplement is this the correct product? Please let me know because if it is I am ordering ASAP
https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Rept...words=reptivite+with+D3&qid=1610126857&sr=8-7
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Ok, I will try to move the basking light higher and record if the temps go down. He spends most of his time on the vine that is underneath the UVB but it runs across the whole cage. It is a T5 HO does that make it better?

For the supplement is this the correct product? Please let me know because if it is I am ordering ASAP
https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Rept...words=reptivite+with+D3&qid=1610126857&sr=8-7
What bulb strength are you using for the T5?

Yes, that is the correct Reptivite. But you do not need a pack of 6. Look at this one. Make sure the with D3 option is checked. I prefer to buy the 2 oz bottles because I replace my supplements every year and 2 oz is plenty to last a year. https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Rept...+D3&qid=1610127138&s=pet-supplies&sr=1-1&th=1
 

nightanole

Chameleon Enthusiast
The beta carotene vs preformed is still up for debate, thats why most formulas have both.

The active preformed is (retinol and its esterified form, retinyl ester, and retinoic acid)


repti calcium with d3 is only 22,907 IU per kg, so its "medium" and very low chance of over/under dosing.
However, your vitamin has the same amount of D3 as your calcium with D3. So you may be overdosing since really your are giving him 4 doses a month.


Misses that are not due to MBD, are normally caused by a calcium phosphorus imbalance. A proper balance is required for the neurons to fire and the muscle to contract correctly.
 

tonguegrab813

New Member
What bulb strength are you using for the T5?

Yes, that is the correct Reptivite. But you do not need a pack of 6. Look at this one. Make sure the with D3 option is checked. I prefer to buy the 2 oz bottles because I replace my supplements every year and 2 oz is plenty to last a year. https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Reptivite-Vitamin-8-Ounce/dp/B002GC4B6O/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=reptivite+with+D3&qid=1610127138&s=pet-supplies&sr=1-1&th=1

ok I just ordered it. I’m going to use that twice a month now.

this is the exact bulb I ordered
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HJG7TJ4?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
 

CBee7726

Avid Member
Carrots, lettuce, potato, and a gel water supplement
I'd ditch the potato and the gel hydration. The potato doesn't provide as many nutrients as other options, and the gel can be bad if the cham accidentally ingests it. I've attached feeder and gutload guides :)
 

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