Need everyones opinion!

[wheresstimpy]

So for the last 4 months i go to the pet store and look at this cute little girl ambilobe panther every time i buy mice, crickets, etc. Well since my boy is now strutting his stuff (hemipene) around his cage i really would like to breed him. So i started talking to the owner about the girl panther at the store and he said he would work on a price for me (sticker says 450$ i say no way) but i wanted to know what you guys think first. A few things that concern me are; she is missing a few fingernails, has a somewhat weaker grip than i am used to, i am not really sure of her age as she was given to the store about a year ago (they did not buy her), and she is a little on the skinny side for my taste. But she looks good and did not seem threatened by me at all and was fine with me holding her. Heres a picture she has just started shedding as evident by he skin coming off her head, what do you think i should do?????
And if i was to buy her, whats a good price?

 

[dodolah]

just my opinion, 250 bucks is a fair price.
But, I would not even bother to buy if you have concern about her health.
She might be too weak to carry the stress for being gravid.
If you still going to buy her, I say quarantine her for a while until she regain her health back. And that can mean your boy not gonna get his chance this year.

So for the last 4 months i go to the pet store and look at this cute little girl ambilobe panther every time i buy mice, crickets, etc. Well since my boy is now strutting his stuff (hemipene) around his cage i really would like to breed him. So i started talking to the owner about the girl panther at the store and he said he would work on a price for me (sticker says 450$ i say no way) but i wanted to know what you guys think first. A few things that concern me are; she is missing a few fingernails, has a somewhat weaker grip than i am used to, i am not really sure of her age as she was given to the store about a year ago (they did not buy her), and she is a little on the skinny side for my taste. But she looks good and did not seem threatened by me at all and was fine with me holding her. Heres a picture she has just started shedding as evident by he skin coming off her head, what do you think i should do?????
And if i was to buy her, whats a good price?
View attachment 6485

 

[BocaJan]

I agree with dodolah. It is a nice looking cham, but needs some TLC - at least 3 months worth before mating. Perhaps even a vet visit if you notice any eating, drinking, pooping, sleeping, weakness issues. Given her state and how long she has been at the pet store I would say $200-250 and they should be happy to rid themselves of something that hasn't sold for so long.

 

[sttines]

Her appearance is not bad but if her grip is weak and she's been in a pet store for one year, she is in all likelihood not in prime health for breeding. I would go back, see if she'll eat in front of you and if you can get a fresh stool from that morning, run with it to a vet who can do a reptile fecal flotation there on the spot, NOT sent away to a lab. This will help answer parasite questions. If you see that there are parasite problems, offer $100 or even less due to rehabilitation efforts that you'll need to go through. Clean fecal? Maybe offer a bit more but not much. Are you certain it is an Ambilobe and not a cross or misnamed color? Lots to consider and the main one is that you may need time to get this girl back to prime health. Toes, she's probably climbed the cage and that's from being nervous in her surroundings. Cage crawlers need privacy, denser planting, and usually a bigger cage. If you are willing to take on a rehab of sorts, see if the price can be cut down by 2/3rds. They still profit and you'll need money for tests. She is probably not happy there nor cared for properly. Can you get her outdoors for natural sun before the winter sets in, even a day or two?

 

[wheresstimpy]

thanks for the quick replies, well i looked at a fresh poop she had dropped and it looked pretty healthy, i knew i wouldn't be able to breed her for a while, i figured a few good months of really good husbandry would go a long way in bumping her health, she seems well hydrated, but i doubt she gets a whole lot of variety in her food, or supplements, both of which are easy fixes. Im on the fence about the whole thing not because i am toooo concerned about her health, but more because of all the unknowns; age, locale, they keep sayin ambilobe but they say that about them all in the pet store world for a few extra bucks... i still dont know... keep the opinions coming!

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

Something is up with her mouth. I would take a look at that. Swollen and slightly misfigured

IMO - I think you could do better. I wouldn't buy her.

 

[wheresstimpy]

Something is up with her mouth. I would take a look at that.
IMO - I think you could do better. I wouldn't buy her.

Oh i know i could get a better panther for cheaper, i have a great shop in La Habra by my parents that ive been going to since i was 5, but i just kinda feel bad for her... and i know i could do better for her.

i can see what your sayin by looking at the picture, but in person it didnt look bad to me. I think it may just be the photo, but next time im in there i will check it out thanks.

i kind of think they are going to have to give her to me for really cheap if im going to go through with it since i may need to do a lot of tlc on a cham that may or may not breed for me.

 

[jannb]

That little girl needs a home but probably not for breeding. If you do get her keep her quarantined form your other chams till you get her checked out by a vet and have fecal done.

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

Oh i know i could get a better panther for cheaper, i have a great shop in La Habra by my parents that ive been going to since i was 5, but i just kinda feel bad for her... and i know i could do better for her.

i can see what your sayin by looking at the picture, but in person it didnt look bad to me. I think it may just be the photo, but next time im in there i will check it out thanks.

i kind of think they are going to have to give her to me for really cheap if im going to go through with it since i may need to do a lot of tlc on a cham that may or may not breed for me.

To do better for her, I think that is noble and a good enough reason in it self.

Where is the shop in La Habra? Beach and La Habra blvd? I was just there a few days ago.

 

[wheresstimpy]

To do better for her, I think that is noble and a good enough reason in it self.

Where is the shop in La Habra? Beach and La Habra blvd? I was just there a few days ago.

Ya thats where i grew up, La Habra Reptile or Pets or whatever they call it now, good people, unfortunately the original owners are rarely in anymore, they have little grandchildren to look after, but there nephew(i think) is in there a lot and he seems pretty cool, they always have chams and like to trade breeding projects and things like that. Unfortunate for me they shop up here in Santa Barbara isn't as good or meet up to my standards... but what are ya going to do...

 

[Jerm]

Cham...

Does that look like a male to anyone else? I know that the hemipenal bulge is small, but I have seen that in males before. With the green coloration that is coming in I would guess to be a male.

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

Does that look like a male to anyone else? I know that the hemipenal bulge is small, but I have seen that in males before. With the green coloration that is coming in I would guess to be a male.

I beleive he said "i am not really sure of her age as she was given to the store about a year ago (they did not buy her), "

Way to old to still be in question. I don't see any bulge at all.

 

[Jerm]

I beleive he said "i am not really sure of her age as she was given to the store about a year ago (they did not buy her), "

Way to old to still be in question. I don't see any bulge at all.

I have never seen a green female, and I have witnessed hundreds of female panthers over the years, CB and WC, whether it be in photos or live. I am also looking at the structure of the skull. I am interested in the locale if it is a female. If a male is not fed properly, his growth rate would be a fraction of what it could potentially be compared to a healthy cham. If it is mal-nourished, he may not show a bulge. I wouldn't buy it. If it is a mature female, it is showing the wrong colors which could mean a health issue.

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

I have never seen a green female, and I have witnessed hundreds of female panthers over the years, CB and WC, whether it be in photos or live. I am also looking at the structure of the skull. I am interested in the locale if it is a female. If a male is not fed properly, his growth rate would be a fraction of what it could potentially be compared to a healthy cham. If it is mal-nourished, he may not show a bulge. I wouldn't buy it. If it is a mature female, it is showing the wrong colors which could mean a health issue.

I am not doubting your experience.
Anything could happen. Even the most experienced breeders and keeps can see something new.

Check out the female (cloud) 2nd one in this thread below.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/female-panther-update-input-13783/

 

[wheresstimpy]

I have never seen a green female, and I have witnessed hundreds of female panthers over the years, CB and WC, whether it be in photos or live. I am also looking at the structure of the skull. I am interested in the locale if it is a female. If a male is not fed properly, his growth rate would be a fraction of what it could potentially be compared to a healthy cham. If it is mal-nourished, he may not show a bulge. I wouldn't buy it. If it is a mature female, it is showing the wrong colors which could mean a health issue.

thats why i liked her, i had never seem a female that wasnt peach colored... i dont know what to think now, lol

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

thats why i liked her, i had never seem a female that wasnt peach colored... i dont know what to think now, lol

its a female.

 

[dodolah]

I have never seen a green female, and I have witnessed hundreds of female panthers over the years, CB and WC, whether it be in photos or live. I am also looking at the structure of the skull. I am interested in the locale if it is a female. If a male is not fed properly, his growth rate would be a fraction of what it could potentially be compared to a healthy cham. If it is mal-nourished, he may not show a bulge. I wouldn't buy it. If it is a mature female, it is showing the wrong colors which could mean a health issue.

there are some, for the lack of better word, "Colorful" female panther out there. Not exactly like a male; but, not exactly following the standard pink and brown.
This is one of the reason why color is not a good sex indicator in babies.

 

[Jerm]

I am not doubting your experience.
Anything could happen. Even the most experienced breeders and keeps can see something new.

Check out the female (cloud) 2nd one in this thread below.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/female-panther-update-input-13783/

Now that I see this female, I see what you are saying. Do these "colorful" females show receptive coloration? I have owned females that will show blue and purple on the cheeks, but the juveniles that showed any sign of green like that turned out to be males in my case. What is the locale of the green female on the other thread, do you know?

thats why i liked her, i had never seem a female that wasnt peach colored... i dont know what to think now, lol

This is going to be a tough decision for you, but if you do buy it, you should definately wait and make sure that the health of this cam is up to par before any breeding attempts.

Here are a couple of females that I have owned that show some bright coloration:
This one is an ambanja that shows a lot of orange with some purple

this is one of Greaseball's (dark blue nosy be male) offspring from The Chameleon Company and shows a purple hue over her entire body

 

[dodolah]

gorgeous fem you have there Jerm.
I believe the blue female on that thread is ambilobe.

 

[sttines]

Your looking at a stool and a vet are 2 different things. it would be an inexpensive thing to do and may be leverage for a discount. what exactly did your naked eye see?