need advice on a MBD veiled

Jess0o13

New Member
Hi guys, first time posting on this forum as well as a first time cham owner...

I recently adopted and took on a MBD veiled. He's got the "U" shaped joints, leg weakness, as well as trouble placing his feet where they need to go. He's still eating well, is active, and almost always a nice bright green color. His former home had only a heat lamp, and took him to a non-herp vet that diagnosed him with an old poorly healed hip dislocation. Not sure on the supplementation used (if any) or the age.

Currently we have him housed in a lower-profile exo with a 5.0 UVB bulb, paper towel substrate, and tons of textured vines/sticks to climb on.

I work at an emergency vet clinic, so yesterday I snapped an x-ray of the little guy....
file_3.jpg


as you can see, there is relatively no bone density going on in this guy, and it looks like some old pathelogical fractures... we mixed up some calcium gluconate to give as a supplement in addition to the calcium/d3 that I'm dusting crickets with.

My question for any of you who have nursed MBD chams back to health, is would you suggest giving the calcium as an injection under the skin or orally? Was unsure if these guys can have skin damage from subcutaneous injections... Dose is 50mg/kg calcium gluconate twice a day.

also forgot to add that he's 13grams at the moment...

any other suggestions on husbandry/care would be very much appreciated!!!

Thanks in advance!!
 
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Unfortunately I can't help with the MBD diagnosis but that was a fantastic "first post" :)


As for supplements, the "standard" for most is:

Calcium daily
Calcium+d3 2x a month
Multivitamin 2x a month


you didn't mention a basking spot, but from the rest of your post I'm assuming you have a temperature gradient as well (70-85F approx)


sorry I can't help with specifics post-MBD as I've thankfully never had that experience; I know others here can certainly help tho

13 grams!? How old is he? Its shocking to see a chameleon that young already have MBD (or alternatively, a chameleon that is older to weigh only 13g!)
 
The quickest way to correct the MBD is to give the chameleon injections of calcium until the blood calcium levels are high enough to give it a shot of calcitonin without depleting the calcium from the blood to a dangerously low level.

If you can't do this, then giving it liquid calcium will work but it will be much slower. Of course you also have to make sure it gets good exposure to a proper UVB light at the same time.

Along with correcting the imbalance you need to ensure that it has proper husbandry to make sure it doesn't return.
 
Best first post ever...you're already my hero :) I've never experienced MBD myself, but based on what I've seen here in the forums, you're on the right path. I believe the calcium was administered orally, but I'm not sure if it's just a comfort thing or what. Chams with MBD will never be the same, but can definitely be nursed back to health and live full lives with proper treatment. Do update on the little guy periodically! Also, does he have a name yet?
 
welcome!
I did the injections, but I am trained to do so, and it sounds you are as well.(otherwise oral liquid, but I think it takes longer)
I had no injection site issues at all
it took a couple of seconds tops to do the injection, I rotated different sites.
Subq, just below the dip under the top spikes worked well for me
the calcitonin shot
LOTS of natural sunlight, he still gets 1 to 4 hours a day, as do all my chams everyday but occasionally Thurs.
I feel this is the biggest gift to recovery, that and good, well gutloaded feeders with the proper supp schedule.
anne

diligence with the uv bulbs, placement, uv meter are very important as well, imo

P.S.
I only did 1 injection a day for a week, than every other for a week, every 3rd for a week and so on. for a total of about 2 months. You might have difficulty with twice a day on a 13g cham?
 
He does have a basking spot that gets up to 85-90 as well as a cool end that reaches 65-70. tank is around 60-65 at night.

No clue on his age. He was relinquished to a pet store and offered to me and my boyfriend since they knew we had numerous reptiles. History is mostly unknown on him.

I have no issues giving injections of calcium, just wanted to make sure that it wouldn't cause tissue necrosis. If that's the most effective form of treatment, I'll be doing that!
 
thank you for rescuing your chammie
mine has a full and productive life, but I am also grateful I caught it super early, I noticed something was wrong the first 12 hours in my care, he was at a Herp Vet in less than 24, with an injection.

So love him, heal him and your addiction will continue :p
anne
 
glad you are knowlegable enough to handle an mbd cham, esp one whose mbd has advanced like this one has.

sontiger (aka anne) is very knowledgable about things. She is one of the sevearl go to people on here.

listen to her, and your cham can live a almost normal life. :D
 
Thanks for all the replies. With as active and otherwise healthy as this guy seems, I'm hoping he can make a successful recovery. I'll definitely be posting updates on him as he progresses!

You guys are awesome.
 
can we see pics of the actual cham?

the xray pics make him seem sad. his arms are so bowed. makes me angry that some people get these cool animals, then dont research them and cause painful and irreversable damage.
 
my goodness Camimom, what a nice thing to read here. I never thought of myself like that because I go to so many people here!

I know you too will take care of your new special needs faly, and he will thrive in your care :)
anne
 
my goodness Camimom, what a nice thing to read here. I never thought of myself like that because I go to so many people here!

I know you too will take care of your new special needs faly, and he will thrive in your care :)
anne

youre very welcome! i always listen to things you have to say.

i hope there are no hard feelings regarding the faly. i wasnt aware you were interested too until everything was already done. the original plan was to have him be driven up friday because we were so scared regarding the chronic prolapsing. danibug was just so scared for him, that i think she just jumped at the first person who offered help.

i go to everyone on so many things toom but ive have had a couple people Pm and thank me for all the help, and im like really, cuz i feel like i barely know anything!

and thanks to this thread, i learned something new.

that as long as you rotate the injection site, its ok and even better to do injections.. something to lock away in the cham vault.
 
absolutely NO hard feelings.
All I ever want for any animmal is to be loved, cared for and protected. He will get that from you.
I adore Dani and hope she continues to contribute here.
anne
 
Here's the only picture of the little dude I have available right now. I'm at work till 1am, so I can snap some later tonight or tomorrow. Doesn't show how "bendy" he really is, but gives you a little bit of an idea...

photobucket-55793-1329786129818.jpg
 
absolutely NO hard feelings.
All I ever want for any animmal is to be loved, cared for and protected. He will get that from you.
I adore Dani and hope she continues to contribute here.
anne

Thanks! i plan to spoil him rotten! and hes gone two whole days without prolapsing... so hopefully. no vent stitch needed.

OP- aww hes soo sad. but not the worst mbd weve seen.. with the proper care, he can probably live a good long life.
 
MBD sucks but is survivable. look for a post from Riven about a female with a possible impaction. Great inspiration for your journey! There are others too but I don"t know how to post links. Maybe someone else can?

Hopefully you can do the injections, they are supposed to heal up alot quicker with the injections. My little guy goes on hunger and drinking strikes whenever he gets shots and even after vet visits. And sometimes refuses anything with calcium in/on it! Which make the healing process alot more difficult. Shots would be nice...:p I have to inject meds into bugs and make him eat those.

Just from my experience so far and things that have helped (advice from here on the forum and vet approved):
NO lights at night - we changed to a ceramic emitter being the only thing on at night.
As much natural sunlight as possible--my little guy has a better attitude after time in the sunlight. And, it seems to me, the more time he gets in the sun, the better he is recuperating.
Offer a basking spot that is warmer than usual--around 95-100. But make sure he can get out of the heat too. At first, my little guy wanted nothing to do with it but now, I find him up there in the warmer spot more and more.
MOST IMPORTANT: Keep your little one happy. The deadliest thing is either of you giving up! Them wanting to survive this is the most important part of all and if the cham is unhappy or too stressed, things just continue downhill. You may have to tailor the treatment to their overall well-being and the healing will come in time. (That is what I am having to do and it is the pits but with the shots, my little one was miserable so, better that he is happy and I just have to be more patient)

Good Luck! Hope you and yours do as well as some of the other success stories on this forum.:D
 
Good news! The little dude is tolerating the injections of calcium VERY well. He already seems a bit stronger, as well as able to place his feet better and faster. He's also eating like a pig and already up to almost 18 grams (originally 13). In a month or so I'll be rechecking x-rays to see what kind of progress we're making. Fingers crossed that all will continue to go well!
 
Good news! The little dude is tolerating the injections of calcium VERY well. He already seems a bit stronger, as well as able to place his feet better and faster. He's also eating like a pig and already up to almost 18 grams (originally 13). In a month or so I'll be rechecking x-rays to see what kind of progress we're making. Fingers crossed that all will continue to go well!

Outstanding news!

Ive got mine crossed;)
 
I'm so glad the treatment seems to be going well. I would cross my toes if I could..but alas, I cannot, so I will settle for crossing my fingers.
 
Yay!
That is great news! I am so glad he is eating more, and has put on alot of weight.
Fortunatly, it does not appear that the MBD is so bad, that he cant live an almost normal life.

GOod luck, and keep us updated!
 
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