need 2nd opinion - ASAP

[Cassie]

I have a male veiled who is about 1.5 yrs old and 140 grams who appears to be having some neurological issues that I would really like some input on.

enclosure: 2' x 4' x 4' screened cage with several med & large exo terra vines, some rope vines, bamboo sticks, 3 live bamboo plants, 4' ficus tree, 3 hoya plants.
day lighting: from 3/28/09-2/18/09 was mercury vapor, uva bulb; from 2/18/10 he had the exo terra dual canopy with the 5.0 & 2.0 bulbs; then 3/3/10-3/17/09 he had both the canopy & mercury vapor; then 3/18/10-current just the canopy
night lighting: 75w night glo
food: 6-8 1/2" dusted crickets daily and 4-5 waxworms week (he did not care for the larger crickets)
humidity: range between 75%-55% depending on time of day
misting: twice daily (~7:30a and ~4:30p)
day temps: 3 temp zones: 72-75 lower cage, 75-80 middle cage, and 85-88 under mercury vapor
night temps: 71-73 degrees

In the last month he started acting like he had OCD, then 2 weeks ago he starting sleeping in strange positions (hanging by 2 limbs) and not using his legs/tail quite as much. Last Monday he stopped eating, Wednesday I found him laying on his side at the bottom of his cage. He actually let me pick him up which is really unusual as he hates to be touched; so I called the exotic vet and they were already closed, but we were able to get in on Thursday. The vet said he looked good, bones and muscles were excellent, urates were fine, no signs of parasites. She tested all the lights we use for him and said it was either he was getting way to much UVB or he may have a neurological problem. She sent him home with some powdered food mixture that I am to feed him 1-2 times a day.

I've been hand feeding him since Thursday, he had climbed around a little in his enclosure, not much. Last night he started making a noise that sounded like an audible exhale and he's does this every so often now, mostly when nobody is in his viewing range. I lined his enclosure with towels in case he fell, and this morning he did fall on the towels. Since this fall, put him in a 10 gallon lined with a towel, some branches and vines. I'm really concerned about him as he does not appear to be getting any better. His grip seems to be letting up some, he's still strong but no longer cuts my circulation off when he grips my fingers.

Any suggestions on what he may have? Is it treatable or terminal? Anything I can do to make him more comfortable?

 

[Julirs]

One thing-you should not have night light or heat unless you tems are dropping below 55ish-and I doubt your house is getting that cold. Were the UVB bulbs compact coiled kind? Are you using a digital thermometer to measure temps? Were you using any supplements at all?

It really does not sound good.

 

[justjumpit621]

I would post all of the help form as all of it is essential.

 

[Cassie]

I use a digital Hygro-Thermometer. Water drip system. Crickets dusted with Rep-Cal Calcium Supplement non-phosphorus 4-5 days week & with ReptiVite without D3 1 day week. Bulbs used are/were (no coils): Zoo Med ReptiSun 5.0 UVB Bulbs & Zoo Med Naturesun 2.0 UVB Bulbs, Exo Terra Solar Glo Mercury Vapor Bulb (125 Watt), Exo Terra Night-Glo Moonlight Lamp 75W, Exo Terra Sun-Glo Neodymium Lamp 60W.

 

[summoner12]

I use a digital Hygro-Thermometer. Water drip system. Crickets dusted with Rep-Cal Calcium Supplement non-phosphorus 4-5 days week & with ReptiVite without D3 1 day week. Bulbs used are/were (no coils): Zoo Med ReptiSun 5.0 UVB Bulbs & Zoo Med Naturesun 2.0 UVB Bulbs, Exo Terra Solar Glo Mercury Vapor Bulb (125 Watt), Exo Terra Night-Glo Moonlight Lamp 75W, Exo Terra Sun-Glo Neodymium Lamp 60W.

is the repcal calcium pink, with D3? cause if that is what you are giving him 4-5 times a week you are likely giving him an OD.

Use the calcium without D3 4-5 times a week and use the D3 1-2 times.

Get rid of the exo terra lamp asap and the night time lamp

Use a normal 60-75 household bulb for him during the day.

 

[kinyonga]

IMHO you need to get it to another vet NOW! If what is wrong is husbandry related you can then make the needed changes.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Probably best to go to a Different vet - one with more chameleon knowledge.

 

[kinyonga]

You said the vet said it could be getting too much UVB...does it have a place in the cage to get (far enough) away from the UVB? Plants to hide in? Does it constantly sit in the UVB?

Symptoms of hypervitaminosis D3 (too much D3) include but are not exclusive to...soft tissue calcification, depression, anorexia, excessive drinking, urination, and weight loss, high serum phosphorus. From what I have read it could also present as signs of MBD.

 

[xanthoman]

oversupplementation?

personally it sounds like an over supplementation to me. you said "rep-cal non-phos 4-5 days a week" but you did not say whether the rep cal was with or without d-3 ? (i am assuming it was with d-3 since you specifically said no d-3 for the reptivite). you also said "reptivite, no d-3 once a week". reptivite is a multivite and even reptivite no d-3 contains preformed vitamin A and using it weekly seems excessive (especially if you are already overdoing the d-3). if the rep-cal you are using contains d-3 and you are using that 4-5 times a week and hoping to offset that by using a multivite no d-3 once a week, then you are definitely oversupplementing on both d-3 and preformed vitamin A. a vet visit is probably still in order, but short of that, the best thing to do is to get back to basics. ie; get rid of all the unneccessary lighting, a lineal reptisun 5.0 for uvb and an incandescent household bulb of about 40w is all of the lighting required, anything else just makes it harder to figure out the problem and likely adds to it, and if you have been overdoing the d-3 then more uvb is the last thing you need. like julirs said, a night heat bulb is usually not required, most chams benefit from a significant nightime drop in temp and coolness and darkness helps them relax from the stress of the day, plus the coolness helps them stay hydrated through the evening hrs. they need the cycle of heating and cooling , not just to be warm all of the time. everybody has their own take on supplementation, but like summoner12 said repcal NO D-3, 3-5 days a week, rep cal with d-3 once, maybe twice a week (probably less for a while since the info seems to indicate oversupplementation) and reptivite, since it is a multivite containing preformed vitamin A should be used sparingly, maybe once a month depending on who you ask, your gutload and other factors, but once a week is definitely excessive. personally i would reduce or eliminate all supplementation (with the exception of rep cal NO-D3) until you have the problem figured out. jmo

 

[Cassie]

Thank you for all the information. He is completely off all supplements as of last Thursday and is being hand fed, once he starts eating on his own will do the supplement changes as recommended. Lighting has been changed. The vet I took him to is the only exotics vet in Indy that I found that treats chams....will see about seeking out a new vet in OH or IL...anyone in OH or IL that can recommend a really good vet? I have no problem driving to get him the needed help he needs. Thanks again for all you advise.