Nearly Egg Bound XRays

[dnallivah]

So a few weeks ago, my little miss (Venus) was very plumb and refusing to lay her eggs. She quit eating (common I know) but quit drinking water. I ended up with a debilitating flu and couldn't take her in as soon as I'd like. I gave her showers twice daily in hopes of helping her but with as far as her eyes were sunken in I honestly thought it might have been too late.

As you can see she looked awful and I felt like the worst chameleon owner ever. If you look at my albums you'll see what a plump, fiesty girl she normally is.

Anyway, vet said if I hadn't brought her in, there's a good chance she wouldn't have been able to lay. Both he and Sang went over my setup, the bins and who knows why she refused to dig. I even predug a hole for her and she would either panic or just opt to sleep.

He guessed around 24 eggs but we're up to 37 (she refused to dig and has been just dropping them wherever she wants).

Here is Venus today - she still hasn't eaten, but she's drinking by herself again and still on the meds the vet sent home with me.

 

[kinyonga]

Hope she is okay. She's looking much better!
Can you answer the questions in the how to ask for help thread at the top of the health forum so we can help you figure out if there is a reason or not.

 

[dnallivah]

I can if you want, I'm not really asking for help though. The vet felt she wasn't laying because she was overwhelmed by the number of eggs for her age (6 months). He said basically her uterus just opted out. Once he gave her the oxytocin and I got her home she started laying. She just chose the branches that were over the laying bins and dropped them in. A few ended up wherever else. The vet felt that next time, as she'll be older, she should hopefully rock it out normally.

I just wanted to share her crazy xrays.

 

[jannb]

She looks allot better. I'm glad that you got her to the vets. I hope she eats soon and will be ok.

 

[dnallivah]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - panther, 6 months old (from Komeleons), 3 months in my care.
Handling - Currently daily to give her her medicine. Generally only about once a week because she's a diva and we all tread lightly around the diva.
Feeding - Gutloaded crickets, superworms, hornworms, silkworms, and the very rare wax worm. Gutload is generally based off of whatever we have in our house mixed with poking around Sandra's blog.
Supplements - Calcium daily, D3 twice a month (though my vet said to do it a bit more), multivitamins twice a month (he recommended multivitamins once a week).
Watering - Hand spray. I work from home, so it's normally 4-6 times a day depending on how long it takes to dry off or how busy I am. If I'm gone I set up drippers.
Fecal Description - Never been tested for parasites, she hadn't been to the bathroom recently when we went to the vet. Generally her poo is the normal dark with white urates. Prior to laying eggs it was a very neon orange which freaked me out. While she hasn't had full on fecal matter since laying (she still hasn't had food) she has had white urates.
History - I'm obsessive about research so I read a million things, asked Sang a million questions, as well as another member here whom I am friends with. She was a spoiled little miss in Sang's care and a princess in mine (or so she thought). We had a heat spike awhile back and it's about that time when I suspect she became gravid.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screen 18x18x36
Lighting - UVB & 50 watt for heat lamp. Currently just screw in bulbs, looking at changing it up for better coverage. She normally moves between basking side and uv side throughout the day.
Temperature - Basking temp is around 82-88 degrees.
Humidity - 55-60% sometimes a little more
Plants - ficus tree in cage, she hangs out in an umbrella tree when she's in our living room.
Placement - Bedroom, little to no traffic. When she was needing to lay I covered her cage to help give her more privacy as well as placing a bigger laying bin in the closet (one she could not climb out of)

Location - California

Current Problem - Recovering from a weird pregnancy/delivery. I'm not really asking for help, but someone asked for the setup and there ya go. By all means - if there's feedback I will happily take it. I'm all for bettering her life.


Her laying bins - one large pot (12 inches deep) with a mix of soil and sand. I removed the river stones from her ficus tree pot because I noticed her climbing that way a few times which IMO was too small, but I was desperate at that point. She also had the larger laying bin which was a garbage can filled with soil only that had the umbrella tree in it (I read some chameleons prefer to lay near roots). I dug test holes in each bin to make sure the soil/sand was moist enough to create stable tunnels. I placed her in one of the premade holes and she went into full panic. Seeing as she was already in such poor health I couldn't justify leaving her in the hole.

After her dose of oxytocin she would climb over her laying bins in cage and drop the eggs into them. I placed her in a shallow hole that she could easily climb out of and she just laid there and laid the majority of her eggs (the vet told me to cover her for 4-5 hours and leave her totally alone).

I did this two days in a row, when she reached around 25 eggs I assumed she was probably done and stopped the 4-5 hours treatment (this took 3 days to get to)...it's been over a week now. She might be done but she's acting like she might have one more left as I will see her protruding - thus I give her privacy. I will probably check in with her vet (who is a well respected herp vet in the area) and see what he says. Today was the first day there was no surprise egg somewhere in her cage, other days I've found them in leaves, the laying bins, rolled under the paper towels at the bottom of her cage... haha

Hope this helps Like I said - open to feedback but I'm honestly not worried any more. She looks SO much better and is back to glaring at me instead of just looking at me all pitiful.

 

[kinyonga]

If you don't want her to produce large clutches you should be able to slow her down a bit by controlling her diet and temperatures. I usually feed my females well for a couple of days after they lay the eggs and then cut back so they are not starved but not overfed and lower the basking temperature by a degree or two to slow down the metabolism. With veileds I can stop reproduction altogether but with panthers I can only lower the clutch size.

 

[little leaf]

it is amazing just how far up in the chest area they carry eggs- poor girl, glad she is feeling better - cool egg pics !

 

[dnallivah]

If you don't want her to produce large clutches you should be able to slow her down a bit by controlling her diet and temperatures. I usually feed my females well for a couple of days after they lay the eggs and then cut back so they are not starved but not overfed and lower the basking temperature by a degree or two to slow down the metabolism. With veileds I can stop reproduction altogether but with panthers I can only lower the clutch size.

I was trying for that, but I will admit she was fed well. I assumed since she was so young I shouldn't limit her too much.

She's finally showing interest in food again but still hast eaten anything.

 

[laurie]

Thanks for the post. It was very informative, and it reminded me that 2 of my "babies" are 6 months, the other 2 "babies" are five months. Time to stop feeding them like they are still neonates. I hate cutting down on their food, but it is time.

 

[dnallivah]

It honestly didn't dawn on me (this is my first chameleon so I'll give myself a little leeway). I figured I'd cut back when she hit a year. It makes me feel bad to know that by feeding her well I most likely made matters worse. Needless to say, when I eventually have another baby girl I'll be paying more attention. I was a wreck when she was so ill.

 

[kinyonga]

I would say not to cut them back on the food until they are fully grown or sexually mature. This one is already reproducing which is why I suggested to do it now.

 

[dnallivah]

Thank you. Once she starts eating again I'll be more thoughtful.

 

[kinyonga]

It's not good that she's not eating yet IMHO.

 

[dnallivah]

It's not good that she's not eating yet IMHO.

I agree, but as of yesterday she was still laying eggs. I know after delivering my children eating was not my top priority...essentially she's been in labor/delivery for 2 weeks now. She's finally showing interest in food but hasn't ate anything (assuming the 2 crickets and a silk worm are still in her cage when I go mist her in a big).

 

[dnallivah]

She's finally decided to eat again...and looking better. Still not 100% but compared to the first photo I'm happy to see my girl looking back like her normal pissy self.

 

[kinyonga]

Glad to hear she's eating too! Her head pads should be bumped out rather than so flat but hopefully that will happen soon too.