stickenstein
Established Member
This morning we noticed this pretty gross looking film on our panther chameleon’s branch. He doesn’t seem ill and his behavior is normal. Should we be worried?
Mystery film/fluid on panther’s favorite branch
- Thread starter stickenstein
- Start date
This morning we noticed this pretty gross looking film on our panther chameleon’s branch. He doesn’t seem ill and his behavior is normal. Should we be worried?
stickenstein
Established Member
Thank you, glad to be here!
I didn’t find anything directly under it. I was thinking it may have been something like that but his urates are usually solid and he’s had no diet changes. Last urate was approx. 2 days ago and it was large and solid.
Ok so solid and orange indicates dehydration. I wonder is he actually might have thrown up a bit.
If you do a husbandry review we can then look at everything and provide feedback effectively. Let me know if you would like me to post the info for that.
stickenstein
Established Member
Hope posting this is ok haha but he seems pretty hydrated and I haven’t seen him vomit before. His eyes are always bulbous/very spherical too. Is this poop ok?
Edit: I’d love to fill out the husbandry sheet too if there’s a link.
Last edited:
stickenstein
Established Member
Sorry forgot to hit reply on that!
MissSkittles
Chameleon Enthusiast
Hi. 
Here ya go. Just copy/paste & answer.
Chameleon Info:
--------------
Please Note:
Here ya go. Just copy/paste & answer.Chameleon Info:
- Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
- Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
- Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
- Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
- Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
- Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
- History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
- Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
- Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
- Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
- Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
- Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
- Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
- Location - Where are you geographically located?
--------------
Please Note:
- The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
- Photos can be very helpful.
stickenstein
Established Member
Stick
AGE ~1 yearSEX Male
SPECIES Panther chameleon
OWNERSHIP 01/2023 - Present
Frank
AGE ~2 years/unsureSEX Male
SPECIES Veiled chameleon
OWNERSHIP 03/2023 - Present (Rescued)
Handling
• 3x a week or less, mostly to clean their enclosures
• receptive to handling IF approached slowly and will walk out onto arms, we think they understand that we take them to their free-roam gym area when this happens
Feeding
• Main staple: dubia roaches
• Supplemental insects: silkworms, sometimes black soldier fly larvae
• Treats or for added hydration: hornworms
• Amount: 3-4 medium-large dubias or equivalent every other day (I sometimes give Frank an extra 1-2 if he’ll come for them because he has a low appetite as is and will sometimes skip feedings)
Gutloading
I gutload the dubias with a mix of fresh greens, fruits, vegetables, bee pollen, and spirulina. I follow Strand’s gutload breakdown and purée all of the produce together, then freeze them into mini cubes to thaw and use daily. I have a large container cage of 100-200 dubias that are fed Total Bites commercial gutloader and water crystals, and I keep about 6-10 of them at a time in a much smaller container cage with the proper homemade gutload for 24-48 hours before feeding them to my animals.
Supplements
• Rep-cal Calcium (no D3/phos) every feeding
• Herptivite x1 monthly for multivitamin
• Sticky Tongue’s Miner-all x1 monthly for multivitamin
Watering
I learned the hard way that the chameleons subreddit is NOT the place to go for accurate info. My boys are currently using clean water glasses but I am buying a MistKing this weekend. They do seem hydrated and their water is often 1” less from what I poured every morning.
Fecal
• STICK: Muted brown, hydrated but solid with a small cap of orange leading into a full, hydrated but solid off-white/ivory urate; never tested for parasites but seems healthy
• FRANK: Muted or sometimes a little darker brown, not as full or hydrated; stool looks like a thinner pinecone in shape with tapered ends, urates are often runny like egg whites with no yellow or orange. Frank is a rescue and has come a long way from when we got him. He has been tested (negative) for parasites as recently as last month and his bloodwork from the same time is normal. I’ve been working with an exotic vet to bring him back up to speed and while he’s had massive improvements since we got him, he still has a way to go. I’d absolutely love any helpful advice on how to create the best life for him.
History
• STICK: Impulse purchase from a local reptile store, he seemed really friendly for a lizard and I was smitten. He has been doing well other than a spinal scar from a burn when I upgraded the wattage of his heat lamp and had a branch too close to it. I cringe every time I see it (I know it’s a rookie mistake) but he’s doing well now and it’s healed over so I’m hoping it’s just cosmetic.
• FRANK: This guy is a major soft spot for me. He’s a rescue so this is going to be a long one, sorry! I want to be as thorough as possible with his case.
I started going to a closer local exotics supply to get feeder insects for Stick and kept noticing this sad-looking Veiled chameleon in a really small enclosure with nothing but a couple of fake plants and some iceberg lettuce hanging from the top. He had massive marble-sized deposits in his eye turrets so it looked like he had 4 eyes, he couldn’t shoot his tongue or extend it beyond 1” infront of him, his balance was off and his claws or toes seemed messed up with some claws missing and some way longer than others. They were feeding him just iceberg lettuce with the occasional hornworm, according to staff, and it’s because he didn’t have the ability to hunt/shoot his tongue.
I took him to the exotic vet immediately and she put him on liquid calcium, broke up and cleaned out his eye turrets over 2 visits (he still has the leftover stretched skin today, poor dude) with antibiotic drops for home, and gave me a strict diet (basically, cake a ton of calcium onto anything he eats) to get him back on track. He was on a Carnivore Care liquid diet for a little while and then I would hand-feed him crickets and then dubias. I started pinching the heads of his dubias in a ziploc bag so that they’d be “zombies” (I know, I’m sorry) and move around without being able to fully get out of the shallow dish I had set up in his enclosure. He started eating them that way and it seemed to work well. Lately I’ve been hand-feeding him or using tongs and he’s super receptive to that.
I did notice that he seems to have some kind of blindness or confusion going on because he will often mistake the letter tattoos on my fingers for insects and try to shoot at them instead of an actual bug held right in front of him. My healthy panther chameleon doesn’t do this. He once grabbed a dubia with one hand and shook it around like a rolled-up newspaper while trying to shoot my partner’s finger next to it. He will also try to shoot my partner’s miniature dachshund from his usual basking perch in his enclosure, and that’s something like a 7-8’ distance (sometimes more) between them. When a feeder is there, he can and will focus on it and then go for it, so he does seem to recognize actual insects. If I hold an insect with my finger, he will usually aim to the right or left of the bug when going for it. I move it over a little so that it’ll get hit by his tongue but I don’t think he would otherwise correct it and get it on his own. Even with the feeder dish, he hovers over it and extends his tongue as far as he can (usually ~1-2”) in random directions that are in just the general direction of the feeders. It takes him several tries to finally get one in his mouth.
Since we have had him, he has shot his tongue at seemingly full body length just twice. He’s done smaller shots (~3-5”) but what usually happens is he repeatedly tries to extend his tongue at an insect and either gives up and withdraws his tongue if it can’t easily reach the feeder without shooting it, or he successfully shoots it a very short distance and it seems completely out of his control, like a hose under pressure that visibly spooks/surprises him when it returns to his mouth. It never hits the target. He’s actually hit his own eye a couple of times and he always looks surprised/shook when that happens. It’s super goofy but also super sad.
Could this be a sign of neurological damage? The vet said he had clear signs of MBD at the initial visit but his joints weren’t rounded and he was actually super fortunate there. He had what she described as a very soft jaw that has since gotten back to where it should be. His balance is a lot better and he never falls (though to be fair he had never fallen in our own experience, even before all the rehab, he just seemed a little wobbly and we were cautious).
His temperament was very sweet in the early days of having him and the vet told me that the weakest ones always were, which was heartbreaking. I’m happy to say that he has more of the classic male Veiled attitude now and will even hiss/puff up if approached too quickly in his enclosure. I’m taking it as a sign that he’s becoming stronger and healthier but correct me if you should. He seems a lot more comfortable now.
Frank is now on the same diet as Stick at the same intervals and with the same supplementation routine. Sometimes he won’t be hungry that day so I’ll try again the next feeding. Yesterday he ate 6 large dubias and 5-6 large silkworms. He doesn’t appear to have fat deposits on his casque so I’ve been more focused on getting nutrition in his body than watching his weight at the moment as he seems to be doing fine there.
Sorry for that massive read! I’m a bleeding heart when it comes to Frank, not that Stick gets any less love.
(continued in next post due to limit
)Attachments
Last edited:
stickenstein
Established Member
CAGE INFO
Both enclosures have the same setup:
• Dimensions: 2 x 2 x 4’ (vertical)
• Type: Hybrid (screen with acrylic panel on door); Frank’s is all screen
• Lighting: Zoomed Reptisun T5 HO linear reflective housing with a single Arcadia Forest 6% bulb for UVB; 120w frosted incandescent light bulb in 9” reflective dome with adjustable dimmer and set at a 45 degree angle on the top screen by clamp (had a 60w that just wasn’t strong enough and the 120w appears to be working well); both lights are set on 12-hour cycles via smart plugs according to local sunrise and sunset
• Temperature: 71-75F daytime ambient, 62-64F nighttime ambient; 82-85F basking; measured with thermogun
• Humidity: 45-55% daytime ambient, 55%-70% nighttime ambient (superfine handheld mister used once on plants at night, 3-5x per week)
• Bottom: no substrate; gray disposable puppy mat placed in each drain tray to catch waste for easier daily cleaning
• Placement: Enclosures are side by side (visually separated by a breathable but opaque dark sheet); location is technically in the living room somewhat near the kitchen since we live in an open-concept loft; the height of the top of the cage is about 6.5’ from the floor and we intend to raise them as soon as we can find a suitable base
• Location: Los Angeles, CA
Current problem:
I just want to get everything in order so my boys can thrive. I’d really love to get Frank to be able to shoot his tongue again if that’s at all possible. He’s the man and he’s been through a lot.
Thanks for checking this out for us!
Both enclosures have the same setup:
• Dimensions: 2 x 2 x 4’ (vertical)
• Type: Hybrid (screen with acrylic panel on door); Frank’s is all screen
• Lighting: Zoomed Reptisun T5 HO linear reflective housing with a single Arcadia Forest 6% bulb for UVB; 120w frosted incandescent light bulb in 9” reflective dome with adjustable dimmer and set at a 45 degree angle on the top screen by clamp (had a 60w that just wasn’t strong enough and the 120w appears to be working well); both lights are set on 12-hour cycles via smart plugs according to local sunrise and sunset
• Temperature: 71-75F daytime ambient, 62-64F nighttime ambient; 82-85F basking; measured with thermogun
• Humidity: 45-55% daytime ambient, 55%-70% nighttime ambient (superfine handheld mister used once on plants at night, 3-5x per week)
- Ambient Temperature and Humidity recorded on digital Govee reader device inside each enclosure
• Bottom: no substrate; gray disposable puppy mat placed in each drain tray to catch waste for easier daily cleaning
• Placement: Enclosures are side by side (visually separated by a breathable but opaque dark sheet); location is technically in the living room somewhat near the kitchen since we live in an open-concept loft; the height of the top of the cage is about 6.5’ from the floor and we intend to raise them as soon as we can find a suitable base
• Location: Los Angeles, CA
Current problem:
I just want to get everything in order so my boys can thrive. I’d really love to get Frank to be able to shoot his tongue again if that’s at all possible. He’s the man and he’s been through a lot.
Thanks for checking this out for us!
Last edited:
stickenstein
Established Member
Thanks for the sweet words and the warm welcome! I realized I kind of derailed my own thread with the tangent into Frank’s situation so if it’s better for me to make a different thread with a specific request for his help then let me know! There hasn’t been any more of Stick’s mystery film and he seems to be fine so I guess I should focus on asking the community for input on Frank now.Just want to say hello and welcome and bless you for taking in a chameleon you knew was going to be sick and expensive to get back into good shape. We need more people like you in the world.
CalamityCrow
Avid Member
Personally I would start a new thread for Frank - it'll be easier to keep up with what is going on with him when contained to one thread, and for folks searching through the threads in the future with perhaps the same issues will find the discussion easier to follow.
When you post it, you can probably just copy/paste what you have in the above husbandry review, and add pictures of Frank and the enclosure as well. Images of him will help a lot.
stickenstein
Established Member
Here are fecal/urate pics for Frank as of this morning:
I’m more than happy to make a Frank thread but I just saw Beman’s response so I’ll wait on that too!
I’m more than happy to make a Frank thread but I just saw Beman’s response so I’ll wait on that too!
Ok I am going to break this apart a bit. Doing basic husbandry in one reply and then going back over your history in another. If I could get a few pics of both of your boys just so I can look at size and fat deposits that would be helpful. See my feedback in red bold.
Stick
AGE ~1 year
SEX Male
SPECIES Panther chameleon
OWNERSHIP 01/2023 - Present
Frank
AGE ~2 years/unsure
SEX Male
SPECIES Veiled chameleon
OWNERSHIP 03/2023 - Present (Rescued)
Handling
• 3x a week or less, mostly to clean their enclosures
• receptive to handling IF approached slowly and will walk out onto arms, we think they understand that we take them to their free-roam gym area when this happens. Perfect just make sure they can not get to one another when they are out. Males move quite quickly when they deem something a threat.
Feeding
• Main staple: dubia roaches
• Supplemental insects: silkworms, sometimes black soldier fly larvae
• Treats or for added hydration: hornworms
• Amount: 3-4 medium-large dubias or equivalent every other day (I sometimes give Frank an extra 1-2 if he’ll come for them because he has a low appetite as is and will sometimes skip feedings) Keep in mind large feeders are going to poss more risk to mouth injury. I personally do not feed dubia that are longer than an inch. Same with hornworms keep them smaller they have a very strong bite. Feeder amounts for an adult panther sit at 4-5 feeders every other day. Adult male veiled 3-4 every other day. With a veiled we have to watch weight a bit closer. Do you happen to know what his last weight was (frank)?
Gutloading
I gutload the dubias with a mix of fresh greens, fruits, vegetables, bee pollen, and spirulina. I follow Strand’s gutload breakdown and purée all of the produce together, then freeze them into mini cubes to thaw and use daily. I have a large container cage of 100-200 dubias that are fed Total Bites commercial gutloader and water crystals, and I keep about 6-10 of them at a time in a much smaller container cage with the proper homemade gutload for 24-48 hours before feeding them to my animals. So for the health of your feeders your main bin I would not use the total bites or water crystals. This is going to make them less healthy over the long run. So its like you eating celery for 3 months then having 2 days of a good meal. Your body itself is not healthy. So I would feed the bin the same thing you gutload your feeders with that you are going to feed off. your gutload looks good I am going to also share the gutload sheet so you have more options for what you can rotate in.
Supplements
• Rep-cal Calcium (no D3/phos) every feeding This one is fine.
• Herptivite x1 monthly for multivitamin
• Sticky Tongue’s Miner-all x1 monthly for multivitamin So these two are where I would change up your supplements. I would drop both the herptivite and minerall. I think one of Franks issues with targeting has to do with lack of vitamin A. Also a lack of vitamin A can effect their eyes. Neither herptivite or mineral have vitamin A. I would purchase repashy Calcium plus LoD version. There is a jackson chameleon on the label. Make sure you get the LoD version. You will use this one 2 times a month say the first and the 15th. It has D3 and vitamin A along with water soluble vitamins.
Watering
I learned the hard way that the chameleons subreddit is NOT the place to go for accurate info. My boys are currently using clean water glasses but I am buying a MistKing this weekend. They do seem hydrated and their water is often 1” less from what I poured every morning. Ok so your already on the right track getting the mistking. You will have far healthier and happier boys adding this in. Remember they are both a little older so the mistking at first is going to be shocking to them. They will get use to it and the schedule.
Fecal
• STICK: Muted brown, hydrated but solid with a small cap of orange leading into a full, hydrated but solid off-white/ivory urate; never tested for parasites but seems healthy.. Since you have both of them in side by side cages I would go ahead and get a fecal on Stick. You really never know with chams and parasites. They can seem totally fine and actually have an underlying parasite issue. And you do not want to risk cross contamination. So just better off knowing your baseline for both is parasite free.
• FRANK: Muted or sometimes a little darker brown, not as full or hydrated; stool looks like a thinner pinecone in shape with tapered ends, urates are often runny like egg whites with no yellow or orange. Frank is a rescue and has come a long way from when we got him. He has been tested (negative) for parasites as recently as last month and his bloodwork from the same time is normal. I’ve been working with an exotic vet to bring him back up to speed and while he’s had massive improvements since we got him, he still has a way to go. I’d absolutely love any helpful advice on how to create the best life for him. You are doing an excellent job. Being as how you have only had him a few months it seems like he is bouncing back well. It just takes time for them to recover. incorporate the supplement info for them that I gave above. I think this is one area that needs an adjustment.
CAGE INFO
Both enclosures have the same setup:
• Dimensions: 2 x 2 x 4’ (vertical)
• Type: Hybrid (screen with acrylic panel on door); Frank’s is all screen Make sure there is a divider panel between your two cages. you probably already have this but just in case they should not be able to see one another.
• Lighting: Zoomed Reptisun T5 HO linear reflective housing with a single Arcadia Forest 6% bulb for UVB; 120w frosted incandescent light bulb in 9” reflective dome with adjustable dimmer and set at a 45 degree angle on the top screen by clamp (had a 60w that just wasn’t strong enough and the 120w appears to be working well); both lights are set on 12-hour cycles via smart plugs according to local sunrise and sunset Perfect... Just keep a really close eye on basking temps with that 120 watt bulb. I would add gauge with a probe at the basking site where the basking fixture is focused at. This will give you a more accurate temp then the gun. And for UVB your looking for a 8-9 inch distance between where the uvb sits on the screen and the branches below it. This will put the cham in the correct UVI level.
• Temperature: 71-75F daytime ambient, 62-64F nighttime ambient; 82-85F basking; measured with thermogun. All of these are spot on.
• Humidity: 45-55% daytime ambient, 55%-70% nighttime ambient (superfine handheld mister used once on plants at night, 3-5x per week) These are good too. Having the mistking will really help here with ambient humidity. Especially for evening. your daytime levels are sitting right where they should for both species. I would not want to see them sitting higher. When you mist you should see a spike in humidity then you want that to fall back to the ambient level that your getting.
• Bottom: no substrate; gray disposable puppy mat placed in each drain tray to catch waste for easier daily cleaning
• Placement: Enclosures are side by side (visually separated by a breathable but opaque dark sheet); location is technically in the living room somewhat near the kitchen since we live in an open-concept loft; the height of the top of the cage is about 6.5’ from the floor and we intend to raise them as soon as we can find a suitable base... Ok I would change the sheet and get a plastic corrugated panel to divide the cages so they can not see each other. With the sheet I would be concerned about them knowing the other is there even though they can not see one another clearly. Chams have crazy good eye sight.
• Location: Los Angeles, CA
Current problem:
I just want to get everything in order so my boys can thrive. I’d really love to get Frank to be able to shoot his tongue again if that’s at all possible. He’s the man and he’s been through a lot.
If he were mine I would change the supplements up. I really think this is the only thing he is lacking. He needs the vitamin A for vision and targeting. There are so many supplements out there and they are not all created the same. So you just happen to have two that do not have preformed vitamin A in them. Overall you are doing an outstanding job.
Thanks for checking this out for us!
Ok I am going to go through history now. Stay tuned lol.
See my feedback in red bold. Stick
AGE ~1 year
SEX Male
SPECIES Panther chameleon
OWNERSHIP 01/2023 - Present
Frank
AGE ~2 years/unsure
SEX Male
SPECIES Veiled chameleon
OWNERSHIP 03/2023 - Present (Rescued)
Handling
• 3x a week or less, mostly to clean their enclosures
• receptive to handling IF approached slowly and will walk out onto arms, we think they understand that we take them to their free-roam gym area when this happens. Perfect just make sure they can not get to one another when they are out. Males move quite quickly when they deem something a threat.
Feeding
• Main staple: dubia roaches
• Supplemental insects: silkworms, sometimes black soldier fly larvae
• Treats or for added hydration: hornworms
• Amount: 3-4 medium-large dubias or equivalent every other day (I sometimes give Frank an extra 1-2 if he’ll come for them because he has a low appetite as is and will sometimes skip feedings) Keep in mind large feeders are going to poss more risk to mouth injury. I personally do not feed dubia that are longer than an inch. Same with hornworms keep them smaller they have a very strong bite. Feeder amounts for an adult panther sit at 4-5 feeders every other day. Adult male veiled 3-4 every other day. With a veiled we have to watch weight a bit closer. Do you happen to know what his last weight was (frank)?
Gutloading
I gutload the dubias with a mix of fresh greens, fruits, vegetables, bee pollen, and spirulina. I follow Strand’s gutload breakdown and purée all of the produce together, then freeze them into mini cubes to thaw and use daily. I have a large container cage of 100-200 dubias that are fed Total Bites commercial gutloader and water crystals, and I keep about 6-10 of them at a time in a much smaller container cage with the proper homemade gutload for 24-48 hours before feeding them to my animals. So for the health of your feeders your main bin I would not use the total bites or water crystals. This is going to make them less healthy over the long run. So its like you eating celery for 3 months then having 2 days of a good meal. Your body itself is not healthy. So I would feed the bin the same thing you gutload your feeders with that you are going to feed off. your gutload looks good I am going to also share the gutload sheet so you have more options for what you can rotate in.
Supplements
• Rep-cal Calcium (no D3/phos) every feeding This one is fine.
• Herptivite x1 monthly for multivitamin
• Sticky Tongue’s Miner-all x1 monthly for multivitamin So these two are where I would change up your supplements. I would drop both the herptivite and minerall. I think one of Franks issues with targeting has to do with lack of vitamin A. Also a lack of vitamin A can effect their eyes. Neither herptivite or mineral have vitamin A. I would purchase repashy Calcium plus LoD version. There is a jackson chameleon on the label. Make sure you get the LoD version. You will use this one 2 times a month say the first and the 15th. It has D3 and vitamin A along with water soluble vitamins.
Watering
I learned the hard way that the chameleons subreddit is NOT the place to go for accurate info. My boys are currently using clean water glasses but I am buying a MistKing this weekend. They do seem hydrated and their water is often 1” less from what I poured every morning. Ok so your already on the right track getting the mistking. You will have far healthier and happier boys adding this in. Remember they are both a little older so the mistking at first is going to be shocking to them. They will get use to it and the schedule.
Fecal
• STICK: Muted brown, hydrated but solid with a small cap of orange leading into a full, hydrated but solid off-white/ivory urate; never tested for parasites but seems healthy.. Since you have both of them in side by side cages I would go ahead and get a fecal on Stick. You really never know with chams and parasites. They can seem totally fine and actually have an underlying parasite issue. And you do not want to risk cross contamination. So just better off knowing your baseline for both is parasite free.
• FRANK: Muted or sometimes a little darker brown, not as full or hydrated; stool looks like a thinner pinecone in shape with tapered ends, urates are often runny like egg whites with no yellow or orange. Frank is a rescue and has come a long way from when we got him. He has been tested (negative) for parasites as recently as last month and his bloodwork from the same time is normal. I’ve been working with an exotic vet to bring him back up to speed and while he’s had massive improvements since we got him, he still has a way to go. I’d absolutely love any helpful advice on how to create the best life for him. You are doing an excellent job. Being as how you have only had him a few months it seems like he is bouncing back well. It just takes time for them to recover. incorporate the supplement info for them that I gave above. I think this is one area that needs an adjustment.
CAGE INFO
Both enclosures have the same setup:
• Dimensions: 2 x 2 x 4’ (vertical)
• Type: Hybrid (screen with acrylic panel on door); Frank’s is all screen Make sure there is a divider panel between your two cages. you probably already have this but just in case they should not be able to see one another.
• Lighting: Zoomed Reptisun T5 HO linear reflective housing with a single Arcadia Forest 6% bulb for UVB; 120w frosted incandescent light bulb in 9” reflective dome with adjustable dimmer and set at a 45 degree angle on the top screen by clamp (had a 60w that just wasn’t strong enough and the 120w appears to be working well); both lights are set on 12-hour cycles via smart plugs according to local sunrise and sunset Perfect... Just keep a really close eye on basking temps with that 120 watt bulb. I would add gauge with a probe at the basking site where the basking fixture is focused at. This will give you a more accurate temp then the gun. And for UVB your looking for a 8-9 inch distance between where the uvb sits on the screen and the branches below it. This will put the cham in the correct UVI level.
• Temperature: 71-75F daytime ambient, 62-64F nighttime ambient; 82-85F basking; measured with thermogun. All of these are spot on.
• Humidity: 45-55% daytime ambient, 55%-70% nighttime ambient (superfine handheld mister used once on plants at night, 3-5x per week) These are good too. Having the mistking will really help here with ambient humidity. Especially for evening. your daytime levels are sitting right where they should for both species. I would not want to see them sitting higher. When you mist you should see a spike in humidity then you want that to fall back to the ambient level that your getting.
- Ambient Temperature and Humidity recorded on digital Govee reader device inside each enclosure perfect these are great.
• Bottom: no substrate; gray disposable puppy mat placed in each drain tray to catch waste for easier daily cleaning
• Placement: Enclosures are side by side (visually separated by a breathable but opaque dark sheet); location is technically in the living room somewhat near the kitchen since we live in an open-concept loft; the height of the top of the cage is about 6.5’ from the floor and we intend to raise them as soon as we can find a suitable base... Ok I would change the sheet and get a plastic corrugated panel to divide the cages so they can not see each other. With the sheet I would be concerned about them knowing the other is there even though they can not see one another clearly. Chams have crazy good eye sight.
• Location: Los Angeles, CA
Current problem:
I just want to get everything in order so my boys can thrive. I’d really love to get Frank to be able to shoot his tongue again if that’s at all possible. He’s the man and he’s been through a lot.
If he were mine I would change the supplements up. I really think this is the only thing he is lacking. He needs the vitamin A for vision and targeting. There are so many supplements out there and they are not all created the same. So you just happen to have two that do not have preformed vitamin A in them. Overall you are doing an outstanding job.
Thanks for checking this out for us!
Ok I am going to go through history now.
Stay tuned lol.
Andrew1283
Chameleon Enthusiast
Definitely looks like someone is wiping their hiney on the branch. My Tony is very well hydrated despite my hand spraying once in the AM and once in the PM with no dripper or fogger. A veieled who drinks a lot…who woulda thunk it? The egg whites come out (thanks Beman for that description ) and he takes the time to wipe his little butt on the branch. I watch him do it and wipe the branch and then spray with alcohol before rewiping. I considered dropping to one misting session. His toilet areas is always in the same spot.
) and he takes the time to wipe his little butt on the branch. I watch him do it and wipe the branch and then spray with alcohol before rewiping. I considered dropping to one misting session. His toilet areas is always in the same spot.
Ok so again see my feedback in red bold. And I will be repeating some info here. Thank you for including them all in one. Since so much of your stuff is the same it makes it so that I do not have to repeat myself lol. These reviews can take a bit of time so you saved me some there. Let me know what questions you have.
History
• STICK: Impulse purchase from a local reptile store, he seemed really friendly for a lizard and I was smitten. He has been doing well other than a spinal scar from a burn when I upgraded the wattage of his heat lamp and had a branch too close to it. I cringe every time I see it (I know it’s a rookie mistake) but he’s doing well now and it’s healed over so I’m hoping it’s just cosmetic. Ok so with the burn scar he may have issues shedding. Just make sure the shed is not building up in an area. I would put in a gauge with a probe at the basking area just so you know exactly where your basking temp is sitting. This is more preventative than anything. I happen to use a herpstat thermostat for basking. it is a total game changer in my opinion. Probe is placed at the branch and I set the basking temp to be no hotter than 82 then where they rise up they are in the max 85. But the fixture will dim up or down based on the temp. So it takes the worry out of basking temps. I would get a fecal for this boy just because you have not and he was purchased at a reptile store. Also you have two so you do not want to cross contaminate in case of parasite issue. Also most parasites do not show outward issues. But a stress even or high numbers can really impact them. Depending on parasite they can have issues with maintaining a healthy weight as well.
• FRANK: This guy is a major soft spot for me. He’s a rescue so this is going to be a long one, sorry! I want to be as thorough as possible with his case.
I started going to a closer local exotics supply to get feeder insects for Stick and kept noticing this sad-looking Veiled chameleon in a really small enclosure with nothing but a couple of fake plants and some iceberg lettuce hanging from the top. He had massive marble-sized deposits in his eye turrets so it looked like he had 4 eyes, he couldn’t shoot his tongue or extend it beyond 1” infront of him, his balance was off and his claws or toes seemed messed up with some claws missing and some way longer than others. They were feeding him just iceberg lettuce with the occasional hornworm, according to staff, and it’s because he didn’t have the ability to hunt/shoot his tongue.
I took him to the exotic vet immediately and she put him on liquid calcium, broke up and cleaned out his eye turrets over 2 visits (he still has the leftover stretched skin today, poor dude) with antibiotic drops for home, and gave me a strict diet (basically, cake a ton of calcium onto anything he eats) to get him back on track. He was on a Carnivore Care liquid diet for a little while and then I would hand-feed him crickets and then dubias. I started pinching the heads of his dubias in a ziploc bag so that they’d be “zombies” (I know, I’m sorry) and move around without being able to fully get out of the shallow dish I had set up in his enclosure. He started eating them that way and it seemed to work well. Lately I’ve been hand-feeding him or using tongs and he’s super receptive to that.
I did notice that he seems to have some kind of blindness or confusion going on because he will often mistake the letter tattoos on my fingers for insects and try to shoot at them instead of an actual bug held right in front of him. My healthy panther chameleon doesn’t do this. He once grabbed a dubia with one hand and shook it around like a rolled-up newspaper while trying to shoot my partner’s finger next to it. He will also try to shoot my partner’s miniature dachshund from his usual basking perch in his enclosure, and that’s something like a 7-8’ distance (sometimes more) between them. When a feeder is there, he can and will focus on it and then go for it, so he does seem to recognize actual insects. If I hold an insect with my finger, he will usually aim to the right or left of the bug when going for it. I move it over a little so that it’ll get hit by his tongue but I don’t think he would otherwise correct it and get it on his own. Even with the feeder dish, he hovers over it and extends his tongue as far as he can (usually ~1-2”) in random directions that are in just the general direction of the feeders. It takes him several tries to finally get one in his mouth.
Since we have had him, he has shot his tongue at seemingly full body length just twice. He’s done smaller shots (~3-5”) but what usually happens is he repeatedly tries to extend his tongue at an insect and either gives up and withdraws his tongue if it can’t easily reach the feeder without shooting it, or he successfully shoots it a very short distance and it seems completely out of his control, like a hose under pressure that visibly spooks/surprises him when it returns to his mouth. It never hits the target. He’s actually hit his own eye a couple of times and he always looks surprised/shook when that happens. It’s super goofy but also super sad.
Could this be a sign of neurological damage? The vet said he had clear signs of MBD at the initial visit but his joints weren’t rounded and he was actually super fortunate there. He had what she described as a very soft jaw that has since gotten back to where it should be. His balance is a lot better and he never falls (though to be fair he had never fallen in our own experience, even before all the rehab, he just seemed a little wobbly and we were cautious).
His temperament was very sweet in the early days of having him and the vet told me that the weakest ones always were, which was heartbreaking. I’m happy to say that he has more of the classic male Veiled attitude now and will even hiss/puff up if approached too quickly in his enclosure. I’m taking it as a sign that he’s becoming stronger and healthier but correct me if you should. He seems a lot more comfortable now.
Frank is now on the same diet as Stick at the same intervals and with the same supplementation routine. Sometimes he won’t be hungry that day so I’ll try again the next feeding. Yesterday he ate 6 large dubias and 5-6 large silkworms. He doesn’t appear to have fat deposits on his casque so I’ve been more focused on getting nutrition in his body than watching his weight at the moment as he seems to be doing fine there.
Sounds like this boy did not have the start to life he should have. But is now very lucky to have someone like you. I believe his targeting issue and even vision issue has a direct link to a lack of vitamin A in his supplements. So this one is a big deal for them. And with all the supplements when you are new it is like being bombarded with info. So you pick some and pray your right lol. Not saying that they do not all have their place in the reptile hobby but with chams they need the preformed A. Beta carotene is what herptivite uses instead. The problem with this is that they have not proven that this can be converted to usable vitamin A. Most situations I see where targeting or vision is effected are almost always linked to the multivitamin not having vitamin A. After a few months of being on a multi vitamin with A these symptoms go away. So it is not an overnight change but one that comes with time. We do not recommend giving it more than 2 times a month even in a situation where they might be deficient because vitamin A and D3 are both fat soluble which means they store in the tissues. Too much can do the opposite of what you intend. So repashy calcium plus LoD version is the multivitamin I always recommend. It is a nice fine powder that does not overly coat insects. The ratio of vitamins in this one is also good. But just make sure you get the LoD version.
You will find with the mistking that their fecals are not as firm. As they start utilizing the misting sessions they will be able to clean their eyes as well. With males we really want hydration to be on point so that they are shedding their sperm plugs regularly and without issue. When they do not these build up and create major issues most of which would have to be removed by a vet.
Ok so lots of info. Take it one piece at a time.
Thank you for including them all in one. Since so much of your stuff is the same it makes it so that I do not have to repeat myself lol. These reviews can take a bit of time so you saved me some there. Let me know what questions you have. History
• STICK: Impulse purchase from a local reptile store, he seemed really friendly for a lizard and I was smitten. He has been doing well other than a spinal scar from a burn when I upgraded the wattage of his heat lamp and had a branch too close to it. I cringe every time I see it (I know it’s a rookie mistake) but he’s doing well now and it’s healed over so I’m hoping it’s just cosmetic. Ok so with the burn scar he may have issues shedding. Just make sure the shed is not building up in an area. I would put in a gauge with a probe at the basking area just so you know exactly where your basking temp is sitting. This is more preventative than anything. I happen to use a herpstat thermostat for basking. it is a total game changer in my opinion. Probe is placed at the branch and I set the basking temp to be no hotter than 82 then where they rise up they are in the max 85. But the fixture will dim up or down based on the temp. So it takes the worry out of basking temps. I would get a fecal for this boy just because you have not and he was purchased at a reptile store. Also you have two so you do not want to cross contaminate in case of parasite issue. Also most parasites do not show outward issues. But a stress even or high numbers can really impact them. Depending on parasite they can have issues with maintaining a healthy weight as well.
• FRANK: This guy is a major soft spot for me. He’s a rescue so this is going to be a long one, sorry! I want to be as thorough as possible with his case.
I started going to a closer local exotics supply to get feeder insects for Stick and kept noticing this sad-looking Veiled chameleon in a really small enclosure with nothing but a couple of fake plants and some iceberg lettuce hanging from the top. He had massive marble-sized deposits in his eye turrets so it looked like he had 4 eyes, he couldn’t shoot his tongue or extend it beyond 1” infront of him, his balance was off and his claws or toes seemed messed up with some claws missing and some way longer than others. They were feeding him just iceberg lettuce with the occasional hornworm, according to staff, and it’s because he didn’t have the ability to hunt/shoot his tongue.
I took him to the exotic vet immediately and she put him on liquid calcium, broke up and cleaned out his eye turrets over 2 visits (he still has the leftover stretched skin today, poor dude) with antibiotic drops for home, and gave me a strict diet (basically, cake a ton of calcium onto anything he eats) to get him back on track. He was on a Carnivore Care liquid diet for a little while and then I would hand-feed him crickets and then dubias. I started pinching the heads of his dubias in a ziploc bag so that they’d be “zombies” (I know, I’m sorry) and move around without being able to fully get out of the shallow dish I had set up in his enclosure. He started eating them that way and it seemed to work well. Lately I’ve been hand-feeding him or using tongs and he’s super receptive to that.
I did notice that he seems to have some kind of blindness or confusion going on because he will often mistake the letter tattoos on my fingers for insects and try to shoot at them instead of an actual bug held right in front of him. My healthy panther chameleon doesn’t do this. He once grabbed a dubia with one hand and shook it around like a rolled-up newspaper while trying to shoot my partner’s finger next to it. He will also try to shoot my partner’s miniature dachshund from his usual basking perch in his enclosure, and that’s something like a 7-8’ distance (sometimes more) between them. When a feeder is there, he can and will focus on it and then go for it, so he does seem to recognize actual insects. If I hold an insect with my finger, he will usually aim to the right or left of the bug when going for it. I move it over a little so that it’ll get hit by his tongue but I don’t think he would otherwise correct it and get it on his own. Even with the feeder dish, he hovers over it and extends his tongue as far as he can (usually ~1-2”) in random directions that are in just the general direction of the feeders. It takes him several tries to finally get one in his mouth.
Since we have had him, he has shot his tongue at seemingly full body length just twice. He’s done smaller shots (~3-5”) but what usually happens is he repeatedly tries to extend his tongue at an insect and either gives up and withdraws his tongue if it can’t easily reach the feeder without shooting it, or he successfully shoots it a very short distance and it seems completely out of his control, like a hose under pressure that visibly spooks/surprises him when it returns to his mouth. It never hits the target. He’s actually hit his own eye a couple of times and he always looks surprised/shook when that happens. It’s super goofy but also super sad.
Could this be a sign of neurological damage? The vet said he had clear signs of MBD at the initial visit but his joints weren’t rounded and he was actually super fortunate there. He had what she described as a very soft jaw that has since gotten back to where it should be. His balance is a lot better and he never falls (though to be fair he had never fallen in our own experience, even before all the rehab, he just seemed a little wobbly and we were cautious).
His temperament was very sweet in the early days of having him and the vet told me that the weakest ones always were, which was heartbreaking. I’m happy to say that he has more of the classic male Veiled attitude now and will even hiss/puff up if approached too quickly in his enclosure. I’m taking it as a sign that he’s becoming stronger and healthier but correct me if you should. He seems a lot more comfortable now.
Frank is now on the same diet as Stick at the same intervals and with the same supplementation routine. Sometimes he won’t be hungry that day so I’ll try again the next feeding. Yesterday he ate 6 large dubias and 5-6 large silkworms. He doesn’t appear to have fat deposits on his casque so I’ve been more focused on getting nutrition in his body than watching his weight at the moment as he seems to be doing fine there.
Sounds like this boy did not have the start to life he should have. But is now very lucky to have someone like you. I believe his targeting issue and even vision issue has a direct link to a lack of vitamin A in his supplements. So this one is a big deal for them. And with all the supplements when you are new it is like being bombarded with info. So you pick some and pray your right lol. Not saying that they do not all have their place in the reptile hobby but with chams they need the preformed A. Beta carotene is what herptivite uses instead. The problem with this is that they have not proven that this can be converted to usable vitamin A. Most situations I see where targeting or vision is effected are almost always linked to the multivitamin not having vitamin A. After a few months of being on a multi vitamin with A these symptoms go away. So it is not an overnight change but one that comes with time. We do not recommend giving it more than 2 times a month even in a situation where they might be deficient because vitamin A and D3 are both fat soluble which means they store in the tissues. Too much can do the opposite of what you intend. So repashy calcium plus LoD version is the multivitamin I always recommend. It is a nice fine powder that does not overly coat insects. The ratio of vitamins in this one is also good. But just make sure you get the LoD version.
You will find with the mistking that their fecals are not as firm. As they start utilizing the misting sessions they will be able to clean their eyes as well. With males we really want hydration to be on point so that they are shedding their sperm plugs regularly and without issue. When they do not these build up and create major issues most of which would have to be removed by a vet.
Ok so lots of info. Take it one piece at a time.
stickenstein
Established Member
Ok so again see my feedback in red bold. And I will be repeating some info here.
History
• STICK: Impulse purchase from a local reptile store, he seemed really friendly for a lizard and I was smitten. He has been doing well other than a spinal scar from a burn when I upgraded the wattage of his heat lamp and had a branch too close to it. I cringe every time I see it (I know it’s a rookie mistake) but he’s doing well now and it’s healed over so I’m hoping it’s just cosmetic. Ok so with the burn scar he may have issues shedding. Just make sure the shed is not building up in an area. I would put in a gauge with a probe at the basking area just so you know exactly where your basking temp is sitting. This is more preventative than anything. I happen to use a herpstat thermostat for basking. it is a total game changer in my opinion. Probe is placed at the branch and I set the basking temp to be no hotter than 82 then where they rise up they are in the max 85. But the fixture will dim up or down based on the temp. So it takes the worry out of basking temps. I would get a fecal for this boy just because you have not and he was purchased at a reptile store. Also you have two so you do not want to cross contaminate in case of parasite issue. Also most parasites do not show outward issues. But a stress even or high numbers can really impact them. Depending on parasite they can have issues with maintaining a healthy weight as well.
• FRANK: This guy is a major soft spot for me. He’s a rescue so this is going to be a long one, sorry! I want to be as thorough as possible with his case.
I started going to a closer local exotics supply to get feeder insects for Stick and kept noticing this sad-looking Veiled chameleon in a really small enclosure with nothing but a couple of fake plants and some iceberg lettuce hanging from the top. He had massive marble-sized deposits in his eye turrets so it looked like he had 4 eyes, he couldn’t shoot his tongue or extend it beyond 1” infront of him, his balance was off and his claws or toes seemed messed up with some claws missing and some way longer than others. They were feeding him just iceberg lettuce with the occasional hornworm, according to staff, and it’s because he didn’t have the ability to hunt/shoot his tongue.
I took him to the exotic vet immediately and she put him on liquid calcium, broke up and cleaned out his eye turrets over 2 visits (he still has the leftover stretched skin today, poor dude) with antibiotic drops for home, and gave me a strict diet (basically, cake a ton of calcium onto anything he eats) to get him back on track. He was on a Carnivore Care liquid diet for a little while and then I would hand-feed him crickets and then dubias. I started pinching the heads of his dubias in a ziploc bag so that they’d be “zombies” (I know, I’m sorry) and move around without being able to fully get out of the shallow dish I had set up in his enclosure. He started eating them that way and it seemed to work well. Lately I’ve been hand-feeding him or using tongs and he’s super receptive to that.
I did notice that he seems to have some kind of blindness or confusion going on because he will often mistake the letter tattoos on my fingers for insects and try to shoot at them instead of an actual bug held right in front of him. My healthy panther chameleon doesn’t do this. He once grabbed a dubia with one hand and shook it around like a rolled-up newspaper while trying to shoot my partner’s finger next to it. He will also try to shoot my partner’s miniature dachshund from his usual basking perch in his enclosure, and that’s something like a 7-8’ distance (sometimes more) between them. When a feeder is there, he can and will focus on it and then go for it, so he does seem to recognize actual insects. If I hold an insect with my finger, he will usually aim to the right or left of the bug when going for it. I move it over a little so that it’ll get hit by his tongue but I don’t think he would otherwise correct it and get it on his own. Even with the feeder dish, he hovers over it and extends his tongue as far as he can (usually ~1-2”) in random directions that are in just the general direction of the feeders. It takes him several tries to finally get one in his mouth.
Since we have had him, he has shot his tongue at seemingly full body length just twice. He’s done smaller shots (~3-5”) but what usually happens is he repeatedly tries to extend his tongue at an insect and either gives up and withdraws his tongue if it can’t easily reach the feeder without shooting it, or he successfully shoots it a very short distance and it seems completely out of his control, like a hose under pressure that visibly spooks/surprises him when it returns to his mouth. It never hits the target. He’s actually hit his own eye a couple of times and he always looks surprised/shook when that happens. It’s super goofy but also super sad.
Could this be a sign of neurological damage? The vet said he had clear signs of MBD at the initial visit but his joints weren’t rounded and he was actually super fortunate there. He had what she described as a very soft jaw that has since gotten back to where it should be. His balance is a lot better and he never falls (though to be fair he had never fallen in our own experience, even before all the rehab, he just seemed a little wobbly and we were cautious).
His temperament was very sweet in the early days of having him and the vet told me that the weakest ones always were, which was heartbreaking. I’m happy to say that he has more of the classic male Veiled attitude now and will even hiss/puff up if approached too quickly in his enclosure. I’m taking it as a sign that he’s becoming stronger and healthier but correct me if you should. He seems a lot more comfortable now.
Frank is now on the same diet as Stick at the same intervals and with the same supplementation routine. Sometimes he won’t be hungry that day so I’ll try again the next feeding. Yesterday he ate 6 large dubias and 5-6 large silkworms. He doesn’t appear to have fat deposits on his casque so I’ve been more focused on getting nutrition in his body than watching his weight at the moment as he seems to be doing fine there.
Sounds like this boy did not have the start to life he should have. But is now very lucky to have someone like you. I believe his targeting issue and even vision issue has a direct link to a lack of vitamin A in his supplements. So this one is a big deal for them. And with all the supplements when you are new it is like being bombarded with info. So you pick some and pray your right lol. Not saying that they do not all have their place in the reptile hobby but with chams they need the preformed A. Beta carotene is what herptivite uses instead. The problem with this is that they have not proven that this can be converted to usable vitamin A. Most situations I see where targeting or vision is effected are almost always linked to the multivitamin not having vitamin A. After a few months of being on a multi vitamin with A these symptoms go away. So it is not an overnight change but one that comes with time. We do not recommend giving it more than 2 times a month even in a situation where they might be deficient because vitamin A and D3 are both fat soluble which means they store in the tissues. Too much can do the opposite of what you intend. So repashy calcium plus LoD version is the multivitamin I always recommend. It is a nice fine powder that does not overly coat insects. The ratio of vitamins in this one is also good. But just make sure you get the LoD version.
You will find with the mistking that their fecals are not as firm. As they start utilizing the misting sessions they will be able to clean their eyes as well. With males we really want hydration to be on point so that they are shedding their sperm plugs regularly and without issue. When they do not these build up and create major issues most of which would have to be removed by a vet.
Ok so lots of info. Take it one piece at a time.
I can’t begin to thank you enough for all of your input and how thorough it is! This is incredibly helpful and super kind of you to take the time for us! Thank you so so so much!
I just ordered the Repashy Calcium Plus LoD supplement. I just gave them the herptivite 3 days ago, is there a waiting period before I should give them the Repashy? 15 days from now or sooner?
I have their body height at 4-6” from the top screen when resting on their basking perches and was able to get UVI 3.0 readings there with my Solarmeter 6.5R. I was following the CA site care summary for this. The heat lamps are elevated above the enclosures so each is about 10-12” away from their basking spot. Should I change this? They seem to be doing well but they spend almost all of their awake time at their basking perches.
Thanks again!
Awwww it really is my pleasure.
So for the supplement you can start the Repashy LoD as soon as you get it. The Herptivite does not have D3 or A so your not going to have any concern of over supplementing. Then do it every 15 days. Take and dust all the feeders for that day so if your feeding 5 or 8 you want all of them dusted. Should not look like powdered donuts. Just a fine dusting.
Uvb is perfect then. Your looking for that 3 UVI. Perfect on the heat lamp. I just wanted to make sure they were elevated. My old man spends a good amount of time during the day basking either under his heat or under the led plant light.
If anything comes up let me know. Lets see where little man is in 30 days after having two doses of the repashy LoD. Remember this is one of those slow improvement things. So it may take 2-3 months for his targeting and vision improve.
