Mysterious Jacksons chameleon death?

[Ally Fayard]

Hi everyone, My name is Ally. I had a 7 month old jackson's chameleon that I purchased 1 year ago. He died last summer.I'm not sure why he died so I'll tell you what i can and see if anyone knows what happened.
Sex-male, Age-7 months, Cage- completely screen 18''x18''x36'', Feeding- crickets, daily, Supplements- dusted crickets w/calcium 3 times weekly, Gutloading-variety of fruits & veggies, Lighting-65w red night-bulb,Humidity- misted 2 times daily, letting the cage completely dry inbetween mistings, electric mister(25sec. min. every hour), I saw him drinking every misting, once monthly I would take him outside and put him on a standing branch in the afternoon and let him sun, then I sprayed him with the hose mister. He never seemed stressed. He was always a bright green color.He had never been tested for parasites. I held him every day and he started to walk onto my hand by himself. Suddenly, when i came down stairs one morning he was weak and hanging under a vine with his eyes closed. Normally at this time he is already active and ready for his breakfast. So that is when I started force feeding and watering him. He couldn't open his mouth or eyes. About a week later he was showing a lot of progress, gripping onto my finger, opening his eyes, drinking, eating a little, walking around. I was so happy. So one morning I took him outside and he was climbing on the stem of a gerber daisy. I went inside to get his spray bottle and when I came back out he was dead. I was only gone for 30 seconds. He was still holding onto the stem, his eyes and mouth were open. He looked frozen. When I took him off the stem he was so tense and cold. I don't know what happened. This was a while ago, but I would like to get back in the chameleon hobby and I don't want to make the same mistake again. Thank you to all who read this and any information would be greatly appreciated.

 

[blackened]

Hi Ally,

Sorry to hear about your chameleon. If you want to try again there are maybe a few things that could be improved upon:

1) feeding - a variety of insects would be better. Locusts, silkworms, hornworms, super worms. A user on here, sandrachameleon, has a great blog on gutloading.

2) supplementation - a calcium w/o D3 will be required at most feedings. Calcium w/ d3 twice a month and multivitamin twice a month.

3) lights - lose the red light. It can cause the chameleon not to sleep well and get stressed. Temperature should be about 80F at the basking spot. Ambient temp 65-70F.

4) humidity - needs to be quite high 70-90%. Get a hygrometer if you don't already have one.

Here's a good care sheet - link

 

[Catahoula]

Hi Ally,

Sorry to hear about your chameleon. If you want to try again there are maybe a few things that could be improved upon:

1) feeding - a variety of insects would be better. Locusts, silkworms, hornworms, super worms. A user on here, sandrachameleon, has a great blog on gutloading.

2) supplementation - a calcium w/o D3 will be required at most feedings. Calcium w/ d3 twice a month and multivitamin twice a month.

3) lights - lose the red light. It can cause the chameleon not to sleep well and get stressed. Temperature should be about 80F at the basking spot. Ambient temp 65-70F.

4) humidity - needs to be quite high 70-90%. Get a hygrometer if you don't already have one.

Here's a good care sheet - link

Keep in mind, temperature and humidity will depend on species and gender. So if you get a different type of chameleon you will need to adjust these.

 

[carol5208]

you have NO mention of a UVB light which if you did not have one, probably killed your chameleon. They cannot live without it. Taking him outside once a month was not near enough, not even close. Am I the only that noticed this in the set up???? Like I said if you never provided a UVB source then his death is not so mysterious at all.

 

[blackened]

you have NO mention of a UVB light which if you did not have one, probably killed your chameleon. They cannot live without it. Taking him outside once a month was not near enough, not even close. Am I the only that noticed this in the set up???? Like I said if you never provided a UVB source then his death is not so mysterious at all.

Wow, huge omission :S. I find these new-fangled ultraparagraphs so difficult to read.

 

[xanthoman]

again with the mystery, the hard truth.

Hi everyone, My name is Ally. I had a 7 month old jackson's chameleon that I purchased 1 year ago. He died last summer.I'm not sure why he died so I'll tell you what i can and see if anyone knows what happened.
Sex-male, Age-7 months, Cage- completely screen 18''x18''x36'', Feeding- crickets, daily cricks are not a good main feeder, 200%too high in phosphorus and too exo-skeletal.imo a diet of mostly cricks can eventually become fatal xanths need a diverse and balanced diet., Supplements- dusted crickets w/calcium 3 times weekly A imo too much, B. what kind of calcium/how much per dusting for how many feeders?, its not all the same, Gutloading-variety of fruits & veggiesnot all fruits and veggies are cham friendly, some are goitrogenic, some are high in phosphorus or other undesirable elements., Lighting-65w red night-bulb imo, infra red has no place in xanth husbandry, imo, all you need for heat and uva is an incandescent housebulb of 40 watts, ideally a cham should have a 10 degree drop in temps during the night, no nite heat is required, or even desired. an otherwise healthy xanth has no problem with nite temps in the 50's. Humidity- misted 2 times daily imo, 5-6x until the cage is drenched, is more appropriate, letting the cage completely dry in between mistings good, electric mister(25sec. min. every hour) confused, is it 2x daily, 25 sec every hr or a min every hr????, I saw him drinking every misting, once monthly I would take him outside and put him on a standing branch in the afternoon and let him sun because of d3 regulation, his supp plan needs to be balanced for that activity, also, how often did you clean his cage., then I sprayed him with the hose mister. He never seemed stressed. He was always a bright green color.He had never been tested for parasites imo, all new animals should be tested for pathogens, you cant ever expect an animal to thrive without a clean start recommend retest every 12-16mths. I held him every day imo, excessive handling can cause issues. and he started to walk onto my hand by himself Suddenly, when i came down stairs one morning he was weak and hanging under a vine with his eyes closed. Normally at this time he is already active and ready for his breakfast. So that is when I started force feeding and watering him. He couldn't open his mouth or eyes. About a week later he was showing a lot of progress, gripping onto my finger, opening his eyes, drinking, eating a little, walking around. I was so happy. So one morning I took him outside and he was climbing on the stem of a gerber daisy. I went inside to get his spray bottle and when I came back out he was dead. I was only gone for 30 seconds. He was still holding onto the stem, his eyes and mouth were open. He looked frozen. When I took him off the stem he was so tense and cold. I don't know what happened,imo, renal failure, probably due to osmotic lysis from hypo/hyperparathyroidism.. This was a while ago, but I would like to get back in the chameleon hobby and I don't want to make the same mistake again. Thank you to all who read this and any information would be greatly appreciated.

we see this all the time, but imo, its not a mystery. the hard truth is, it died, because you didnt know how to take care of it. thats the bottom line.

not trying to harsh on your stuff, its good that you are trying to figure out what went wrong. but, common sense says, if you get a rare and exotic lizard, especially one with a reputation for being difficult to keep even for experienced keepers, and you dont know its care requirements or how to implement them, and you dont do any research to figure them out,,,, its going to die.... thats not a maybe,,, and thats not a mystery,,,, thats just common sense. sadly, it sometimes takes the death of a cham or 2, before that sinks in.

its a mistake that many, even most of us have made, including myself. when i first kept veileds in 94, i was the worst keeper EVER. just trying to impress upon you, that learning your chams basic care requirements before you get it, is the best way to keep it alive. that way when something goes wrong, which it will, you will at least have a little idea of how to recognize it before it becomes acute, and what to do about it, and just trying to impress upon you that learning how to care for a montaine, isnt something that can be learned or explained in a single post, or even several. jmo, if you want a reasonable/realistic chance of keeping one alive, i recommend at least a couple dozen hrs of study before getting another one.

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNEEfkxqjRyTJWmh4wtqzpT6MiOvtQ

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNF7ho9JciiStpBbduf9CGuF6RnO7Q

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGlW3RCeH4xqA6kN8d8f5eb5Hoyww

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFd1O2jCpecOMEVq7bBaiWPKf9qbQ

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFvAZPwRugTZSNenqd1TJirzA7pnA

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNHQdidOtYDs1f5GAotL_e7MrqEKVw

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNElp3C_ai-L8yNb6L7p77w0ZgZqHA

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNF17gRdiAyixtbP9sr9eY5ejAHp1g

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...&sig=AHIEtbRr-evOs3K2gCvprk0G85EvvQFtQQ&pli=1

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFZxT6ZcwxPRNslXWfoCob5akhkOQ

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFVqanNt_Uy4JZSdHr9eljKdz7lCw

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNH7-N_TPuzaSp0IjmxiJ5OMpdnttQ

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNETRjnwkOMBvlPcLrZxt8Uc8_b05A

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNEVQRdKglMnIlJ7KEgBo6jEu9VvqA.

plenty more where those came from, they are easy to find for anybody that takes the time to look. i would say better luck next time, but if you get another cham, its survival wont be dependent upon luck, it will be dependent upon your knowledge of the issues at hand. sorry for your loss, i could just go ah gee thats too bad, but i am just trying to give you some info that you can actually do something with. jmo.

 

[carol5208]

Xanth, excellent post, I know you did not mention the UVB but I assuming you did not cause it was already mentioned. Correct? Although, I did not read all your links either. That had to play a critical role. I don't think you are being harsh at all. Like you said, it is the cold hard truth and sometimes that can be hard to take.

 

[Psychobunny]

Also, please keep in mind that chams can hide their illness all the way up to the very end.
In the wild, preditors look for weak, sick and old animals, so it is self defense to always appear healthy.

Your cham may have been sick from the very start, you will never know!!

 

[xanthoman]

clarification

Xanth, excellent post, I know you did not mention the UVB but I assuming you did not cause it was already mentioned. Correct? Although, I did not read all your links either. That had to play a critical role. I don't think you are being harsh at all. Like you said, it is the cold hard truth and sometimes that can be hard to take.

correct in part. i didnt mention the uvb issue because one, there was no actual specific help form included and 2 imo, the bottom line is there are dozens of issues it could have been, that will likely never be pinpointed. imo, its pointless to try to figure out what went wrong, when its not at the real heart of the issue.

there may have very well been an obvious problem but imo, just from the info posted, imo, i can safely say that even though there may have been an obvious problem on the surface, i can guaranty there were multiple issues that led up to it.

imo, its pointless to do such a review if there is a general void in husbandry knowledge because as i said before, imo, its impossible to teach (or learn) the entire concept of husbandry, from a single post or even a dozen. i felt it was more important to impress the need for an understanding of general husbandry issues, and the need to take it seriously. imo, thats part of the issue with most of the cases in the health clinic. imo, in most cases their helpform/info indicates obvious husbandry issues that, obviously havent even been researched or in many cases have been researched but just ignored.

almost every keeper has read the importance of diversity in diet yet many dont take it seriously until there cham is on the floor of the cage.

you cant imagine how many emails i have gotten from people with sick/dying chams whose husbandry strongly indicated a basic lack of understanding for husbandry issues and very basic mistakes like feeding mostly crickets. i often get emails back from the same people 10 days later, with their cham in even worse condition, yet they havent implemented any of the suggestions i have made or done any actual study of the issues, often they have instead opted to search for some over the counter remedy to fix the problem. often times because they dont want to accept that their husbandry is at issue. (not saying thats the case with the op, she is at least trying to take the steps to figure out what she could have done better,) just for the record, evrybodys husbandry is at issue, because there is always room for improvement. weve all been there, weve all made mistakes.

my point being imo, it is almost pointless to address specifically what went wrong until they have at least learned basic husbandry issues and how to implement them.

for the op, please understand, this is not meant to be a personal criticism, its only meant to point out that its likely that at some point even a otherwise healthy cham is going to have issues, and if the reality is, if you dont have a basic understanding of your chams health issues you arent likely to notice the problems in time to correct them, imo the same goes for a cham that was less than healthy when acquired.
sure i could have gotten into the uvb issue, i could have even done a whole uvb post, but imo, that still wouldnt adequately address the issues of uvb. if somebody's husbandry is at the point that they dont understand they need uvb (not saying thats the case) then imo, it would be better for them to study basic husbandry issues before worrying about the finer points of uvb.

my suggestion to the op would be to do at least a dozen hrs of study on general husbandry issues, then repost with anything that you are not clear on. you are always welcome to pm or email as well. jmo