my very first reptile show......was HEARTBREAKING

[little leaf]

the table of little Senagul's - dehydrated, thin as paper , all in deli cups way to small for them and roughly tossed in to a cooler at the end of the show - to go to another - I know that man did not feed them or water them - I loved the show until I came to him- there were few chameleons there at other tables, and the rest I saw were nice - I really enjoyed the show until I came to that table - they were $20 each - he had 5 - I wanted to buy them all - but we got there late, and I guess thats a good thing- because has I had the time to think about it- I would be the owner of 5 more chams - I want to go to another show- but I dont know if I can - the more I think of them - the more I regret not getting them - how do you handle going to a show, and see this , and then walk away - this is the reason I have avoided going to a show- my very first reptile show has left me with heartache , I can not get them out of my mind
I really want to go to another show- but is this the norm ? I dont think I could do that again

 

[pssh]

It can be really sad sometimes, but you just can't save every animal. Hopefully everyone realized how thin they were and the bad condition they were in and no one bought a single one from him. Vendors don't want to take any animals home with them again, so if he realizes that they wont sell, then maybe he wont bother buying anymore.

The worst I saw at a show was one where there were these 4 parsons chameleons in a small mesh reptarium all together. Some were completely black and brown, on the floor, grabbing at eachother and looked very much like they were on death's doorstep. The price tag for them was $3000 each, and when I asked if the price was the same even though they were in this condition, they told me that they would not lower the price. It's knowing that I am not supporting a seller that is okay with selling animals in such conditions that helps. I will not support these people that put their greed before the animals they sell.

Thankfully, the shows around here that I have been to have generally only had chameleons in decent shape. There is the occasional one that looks pretty bad, but as far as I have seen, that is the exception. I don't know if maybe that is because there tend to be a lot of breeders in CA, so people don't bother buying sad looking imports to try and sell? Maybe try asking some people in your area/who attend the shows you want to go to what they are like.

 

[djfishygillz]

It can be really sad sometimes, but you just can't save every animal. Hopefully everyone realized how thin they were and the bad condition they were in and no one bought a single one from him. Vendors don't want to take any animals home with them again, so if he realizes that they wont sell, then maybe he wont bother buying anymore.

The worst I saw at a show was one where there were these 4 parsons chameleons in a small mesh reptarium all together. Some were completely black and brown, on the floor, grabbing at eachother and looked very much like they were on death's doorstep. The price tag for them was $3000 each, and when I asked if the price was the same even though they were in this condition, they told me that they would not lower the price. It's knowing that I am not supporting a seller that is okay with selling animals in such conditions that helps. I will not support these people that put their greed before the animals they sell.

Thankfully, the shows around here that I have been to have generally only had chameleons in decent shape. There is the occasional one that looks pretty bad, but as far as I have seen, that is the exception. I don't know if maybe that is because there tend to be a lot of breeders in CA, so people don't bother buying sad looking imports to try and sell? Maybe try asking some people in your area/who attend the shows you want to go to what they are like.

4 Parsons? That is very depressing... You would think the people running the show would confront the seller.

 

[Seiryu]

Sorry you had such a poor experience!

Sadly this is how most shows are. There is always someone looking to cut corners who doesn't take care of their animals. Usually you see this more in bulk re-sellers.

I've been vending for over 3 years now at the show in my area and while cases like this do happen from time to time, most times they do not allow the person back if something is mentioned and proven.

I would suggest next time you see something like that to contact the show coordinator and talk to them about it. There is usually someone there you can talk to. At least at mine if you mention something, they take a look (without looking obvious) and make a decision based on what they see. If it looks deplorable they either do not allow the person back or they talk to them.

I would say do not give up! Shows can be a lot of fun, but there is usually always something you can find that you strongly disagree with.

One of the biggest things for me is when the kids hold my ambilobe Proteus for the first times and seeing their reactions to his grip and how he reacts to them. Most times he'll eat a bug right from their hand. He gets pretty fat after the shows !

 

[little leaf]

Sorry you had such a poor experience!

Sadly this is how most shows are. There is always someone looking to cut corners who doesn't take care of their animals. Usually you see this more in bulk re-sellers.

I've been vending for over 3 years now at the show in my area and while cases like this do happen from time to time, most times they do not allow the person back if something is mentioned and proven.

I would suggest next time you see something like that to contact the show coordinator and talk to them about it. There is usually someone there you can talk to. At least at mine if you mention something, they take a look (without looking obvious) and make a decision based on what they see. If it looks deplorable they either do not allow the person back or they talk to them.

I would say do not give up! Shows can be a lot of fun, but there is usually always something you can find that you strongly disagree with.

One of the biggest things for me is when the kids hold my ambilobe Proteus for the first times and seeing their reactions to his grip and how he reacts to them. Most times he'll eat a bug right from their hand. He gets pretty fat after the shows !

maybe I will go to your show I feel so stupid, I even cried for 2 days !! at the memory of them - it was so sad - I would have felt bad for any cham, but a Senagul was my very first cham - that is why my name is "little leaf" - I named her Tie Fa'y - little leaf in African other than that guy, the show was pretty neat- I got 11" heat tape for $3 a foot - so that made my day
he did have some REALLY nice looking pygmy chams for $20 each - but I did not want to support him- like you guys said - I will try one more, I did like the show except for that

 

[absolutbill]

Living here in Florida I have multiple shows a year to be able to attend, in different parts of the state. When I am able, I will usually go to them to buy feeders, supplies, or just to have an enjoyable way to spend my day. The last show I went to was this past summer. The show was good (they all have way too many ball pythons, but that's just my personal preference), and there are always the good sellers and those who view animals as a commodity.

One in particular at this show was selling veileds that looked good, except that if they were 2 weeks old I'd be surprised. They were the tiniest chams I've ever seen, and I was quite upset (and making loud editorial comments to my husband when walking by in the hopes of dissuading customers). As my husband put it, and I want to stress that he's not ok with this practice either, they are simply a commodity to be sold and replaced through supply and demand. The chams mean nothing more than a paycheck, and the next meal on the table or shoes for their kids. It's heartbreaking, I know, but everywhere a person thinks they can make a buck in this world, someone will take it.

We left the show after spending about 1 hour total there, and it was a 3 hour round-trip drive just to get there. Will I go to another show down here? It's doubtful after that experience. Maybe next year, or maybe I'll go to Daytona next August and let that be that. I'm sorry that you saw those Senegals in that condition, but maybe in the long run by not buying them you are actually saving more lives.

 

[jannb]

Reptile shows are just about always that way. I enjoy going to see and meet other reptile keepers and to look around but I quickly learn which areas (tables) to avoid walking by.

 

[little leaf]

Reptile shows are just about always that way. I enjoy going to see and meet other reptile keepers and to look around but I quickly learn which areas (tables) to avoid walking by.

yes, I will know NOT to go to that side of the room again

I'm sorry that you saw those Senegals in that condition, but maybe in the long run by not buying them you are actually saving more lives.

that is what I keep telling myself - its just we all know the look, little turrets rolling around in panic - clawing at the top to get out of the stupid tiny cup - I do have to say , I should not maybe be so hard on myself , the reason for going 3 hrs one way was to pick up 2 rescue Jax , who did need help, the stupid idiot guy had them in COFFEE CUPS ! the male is quite thin - the female not quite as bad - so the at the end of the day, I did still save 2 chams - the little male is with a friend who wanted a little boy, so I let her have him, he was healthy, just thin - but had he stayed with the "owner" - they would have been much worse in a short time I am sure - I have not taken any pics of her yet, she is shy, and still settling in

 

[ChamLady]

Every show I've been to, I've wished that i had a misting bottle to give the chams a drink of water. I cringe when I see the tiny hatchings.

Thank heavens, I'm the type of person who thinks about things carefully, and researches. When I went to my first reptile show, there was a small cage with 6 chams in it. They were dark and pathetic-looking, hanging on the screen. It was all I could do to walk away, but I did. Months later, I learned that they were Melleri. OMG, my heart. breaks to think of them.

 

[Olimpia]

I know it's really hard but this is what life would have looked like if you'd paid for them.

He gets $20 x 5 = $100, 5 fewer animals to go home with at the end of the weekend, and probably makes a profit on what he paid for them. AND worse of all, now he has the motivation to buy more for the next show, because at the very least another bleeding-heart will buy them.

You are out $100 + however much to get them treated, buy them cages and set-ups, and still risk having every one of them die. And then you're even MORE heartbroken and out a substantial amount of money.

But by not buying them, perhaps (unfortunately) these 5 may die but the vendor realizes it's more expensive to buy animals that don't ever sell because they die. So he never buys chameleons again, and decides to stick to whatever else he buys and sells.

So I'm with Absolutbill, you mya be doing more good in the long-run.

I went to a show in Ft. Lauderdale where there was a gorgeous Meller's that was just skin and bones, literally, there was no mass on him whatsoever. You could see all the bones of his skull. The guy wanted $200 for him. In the end I would have PAID HIM $200 for his neglect and I would have been out about $6-800 to try to rescue him and probably have him die.

Thankfully I don't see that severity of neglect more than once now and then and for the most part I really enjoy these shows. You just have to be strong - you vote loud and clear with your money.

 

[little leaf]

yep, as sad as it is.. I agree - and he did have one thing I did want, but I did not get it because HE had it ( it was not alive, it was a dish ) - I will also do like Jann , and just avoid that table next time - he is set up on a back wall everytime- my friend calls him "the wall of death " I guess some ppl have been complaining about him - so I hope he will not be there next time - are the bigger shows, are they better about screening for these things? I think I would rather drive further for a better show- like in Tampa ( I wish !! )

 

[Olimpia]

The benefit of a show like the big Daytona one is that it's supposed to be CB only. No WC, so you don't see the cups or cages full of sick, dehydrated new imports like you do at other shows. Doesn't mean that the conditions of all the animals are 100% on point but they're definitely better. Maybe a couple cages full of baby veileds or a tank with a couple chameleons, but they generally look way better.

 

[absolutbill]

I didn't realize that about Daytona, so I'll have to really think hard about making the drive next year! And Little Leaf, you need to come down to a Florida show just so you can see the guy with the sugar gliders. He's "interesting", and makes pouches for them to climb in your shirt. I'm fairly certain he refers to all of them as "my precious" as well