my veiled...help

[Jaidensmomma]

Cage Info:
Cage Type - 65 gallon Reptavarium, mesh cage
Lighting - What kind of lighting are you using? How long do you keep the lights on during the day? one 150 watt and one 50 watt ceramic basking lights, and a repti-sun 5.0 full spectrum uva/uvb
Temperature - What temperature range have you created?between 80 and 90 degrees
Basking spot temp? 100 degrees
What is the temperature at night? 75 degrees
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? between 60 and 75%
How are you creating and maintaining these levels? live plants and misting 2-4 times a day
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? i have a live pothos
Location - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? its in our living room which is kinda high traffic as we have a 3 year old, but the cage is up off the ground, in fact i have to look up into it to find him most of the time! =)

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - veiled cham., usure on age or sex
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? crickets, for right now
What amount? we put in 12 a day, but he hasn't been eating them
What kind of schedule? every morning at 7
How are you gut-loading your feeders? zilla gutload and water
Supplements - What are you dusting your feeders with and what kind of schedule do you use? reptical every feeding, as thats what the pet store was doing
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? we mist 2-4 times a day. we mist all the plants and then the mesh on the top of the cage, so it "rains"
Do you see your chameleon drinking? i haven't seen him drink since i got him 2 weeks ago,
Fecal Description - it was brown when we first got him and now it white with yellow at one end. its all mostly solid
History - I haven't taken him to the vet. for initial visit yet because he seemed really stressed when we first got him.
Current Problem - I'm not sure if he's dehydrated or not or if he's on a hunger strike or what! i just want him to be ok


he's been very active since i got the 150 watt ceramic up and running, but he hardly opens his eyes, even when walking. he also fell of his vine to the bottom of the cage today. i don't know whats wrong can someone help, Please??

 

[summoner12]

is your Reptisun a compact or tube lamp?

Edit: since you don't know the age or sex of you cham... how big is he from head to nose? does he have little spurs on his rear feet?

You can see spurs here, see the bump on the back of his rear right foot? this guy is 8 months old... but you can see spurs from birth.

 

[Chase]

I think you have too high of a bulb for that size cage. He might be dehydrated, is his stool only white? How much of it is white, how much is it yellow?

Cage Info:
Cage Type - 16" X 16" X 30" Screen Cage
Lighting - Reptisun 5.0 and regular 75 Watt Light (House light)
Temperature - 80-87 Degrees
Basking spot temp? 100 degrees
What is the temperature at night? 75 degrees
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? I would say 80-85%
How are you creating and maintaining these levels? live plants and misting 2-4 times a day
Plants - You can use Pothos but most are pretty small. I would use somehting bigger (Schefflera or Hibiscus)
Location - Try to get it in a room temperature spot with the least amount of noise

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - veiled cham., usure on age or sex
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? crickets, for right now
What amount? we put in 12 a day, but he hasn't been eating them
What kind of schedule? every morning at 7
How are you gut-loading your feeders? zilla gutload and water
Supplements - Way too much supplements!!!! Use Herptavite, Calcium, Calcium with D3, and Minerall I. Calcium with D3 should be provided 1to 2 times per week for young chameleons (up to 6 months old) and reduced to twice per month for adults.
Watering -Spray 2-3 Times a day for 5 minutes
Do you see your chameleon drinking? i haven't seen him drink since i got him 2 weeks ago,
Fecal Description - it was brown when we first got him and now it white with yellow at one end. its all mostly solid
History - I haven't taken him to the vet. for initial visit yet because he seemed really stressed when we first got him.
Current Problem - I'm not sure if he's dehydrated or not or if he's on a hunger strike or what! i just want him to be ok

QUOTE]

 

[Brad Ramsey]

This animal needs to go to the vet.

Closed eyes all the time and falling off the branches are not good and only the vet can help.

There are a few things wrong with your set up (in my opinion) and doing what the pet store was doing is always a bad idea.

Check this out:http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/

and waste no time getting this animal to the vet!!!

-Brad

 

[Chase]

Ya, do what Brad says! He is the Veiled Caretaker !

 

[Jaidensmomma]

thanks! the reason the wattage is so high on the ceramics is cuz we don't have an exotic's store here. i'm stuck with petco or petsmart and from what i can find the only carry 50, 100, or 150 watt ceramics. we had just a 50 watt but the cage wasn't getting above 65-70.
he does have the spurs on his feet, and he's about 4 inches including tail
the reptisun is a compact, i think. (its in a dome fixture)
i don't know if he fell off of a branch or if he fell off of the mesh ( he's figured out how to walk on it) or something else after i misted the cage.
i was going to take him to the vet anyways, but now i'll make it ASAP.
Where would be a good place to put the cage? We're in an apartment, so i'm not sure where he'd go, but i'm looking around right now!!
thanks for the advice, i've never owned a cham before and the only place in the area i could find one was Petco. and of course they don't have any books or anyone who knows what they're talking about!

how do i get him rehydrated??

 

[Chase]

Well, take him, get a fake plant or buy some bamboo, and put him on it, and put it in the shower. Put it on misting if you have it and let it sit there for like 10 Minutes. Umm, or you can just mist the crap out of the plant. Like 2-3 day for 10 minutes each time. Go to Wal-Mart and buy a 75 Watt lightbulb.

 

[dodolah]

how do you know he's dehydrated?
Is his urates yellow?
or his eyes are sunken like this?

Brad is right. Seems like your chameleon is in bad shape and in need of vet asap.
Since you are a bit unsure of his age, I do not dare suggesting shower technique for hydration. Also, your chameleon seems to be stressed out.
Shower might proven to be too much for him.

best way to keep the cage is high above and in a low traffic room.
Try to get a vet appointment tomorrow. and see what your vet says about the case.
Please update us! I hope your chameleon will be able to pull through this.

 

[Julirs]

First off, the cage you have him in is way too big. Next your temps are way too high. He should be in a very small screen cage at this point. Get rid of the compact bulb, and get a Reptisun 5.0 or 10.0(dark mesh) linear Flourescent tube. Get rid of the ceramic bulbs, a standard 75W household bulb in a clamp lamp will work out fine. His temps should be no higher than 80 in the basking spot. I would say he is probably both dehydrated and starving, as the cage is too big for him to hunt in. I would mist him heavily several times a day for 5-10 minutes in hopes of rehydrating. He really does need to see a Vet at this point if he is to survive. Read Brad's Veiled info-it is the best.

 

[Jaidensmomma]

i was under the impression that i should put him in a cage that he can stay in so that he doesn't have to be moved because that stresses them out! sorry, i'm just confused. every one has an opinion on how things work and i researched for a month every where and went with the common themes, i.e. changes in the enivronment stresses them out so put them in a cage they won't have to be moved out of for awhile if ever, the temp.'s should be 80 ambient and 90+ basking. Im' really frustrated because i don't want him to die!

he wasn't eating in the other tank i had him in either, which was a 10 gallon aquarium w/ screen lid and he was in that until 2 days ago. He does catch crickets in the cage he's in now just not all of them.

 

[dodolah]

hi Jaidensmomma,
for now take a deep breath and just focus on getting him to a vet.
I understand your frustration.

changes in environment do stress him out. That is why i do not recommend shower.
What you can do is try to limit the traffic in the room that he's in.

Where are you located? do you know a good exotic vet available around your area?
try this link:
http://www.herpvetconnection.com/

as far as basking temp, it is really depend on the age of the chameleon.
90 F is good for adult.
but for babies, between low 80s to 85 is generally considered to be the normal range.

 

[Jaidensmomma]

yeah, i found an exotic vet. i took off one of the ceramic's so the cage is around 70 ambient and right around 80-85 in the basking area. he doesn't appear to be dehydrated, he's eyes aren't sunken, he's not wrinkly, or anything. i just haven't seen him drink anything.
i'm going to get him to the vet ASAP and hopefully find out about having his eyes closed all the time, cuz i know its not a good sign. i'll post pic's as soon as i can

 

[summoner12]

All the info can be over welming especially when you think your doing it right from some of your own research. A lot of the people here know how to care for these guys.

For a guy your size, GET RID OF THE COMPACT! (sorry for yelling... but it is urgent.) I have lost a young cham about the age of yours to compacts. they emit too much UVB and some UVC which isn't good for them. Don't buy anything more from petco.. order from LLL Reptile They have WAY better pricing than petco. Buy an 18" reptisun 5.0 and fixture. Your cage isn't too big... I mean it is big for him... but I think he will be ok. If you would like to get something smaller and more similar to what the rest of us use, buy this cage. When he out grows this cage, put him in the cage you have him in now... and then when he is larger buy one of these cages. You need to get rid of the heat coils. Chameleons look for light as heat. Buy a zoomed daylight lamp. You want a 70-73 ambient temp and for a young cham you should have a basking of about 83. Get one or two different wattages of daylight lamp. I would get a 40, 60 and a 100w lamp for some variety. Buy a ficus from home depot and wash it down with soapy water. and rinse well. You could also get a pothos and just hang the vines around and add some fake leaves as added coverage.

Here is my setup, my chams are 8 months old now.

This is the cage Jake used to live in.

The heat coil was for at night.. I thought it was getting cold... but it was over kill and i didn't use it much.

 

[Jaidensmomma]

do i need to switch the uv bulb even though i'm using it with a dark mesh cage? i've heard that the dark mesh will cut down on the uv that gets through. (i don't have room on top of the cage for a florescent fixture right now.) the tank temp has dropped down to where it should be, i guess. we've moved the uv light over by the ceramic. if i switch to that blue bulb will it keep the tank warm enough? the room temp is only 60 degrees usually and the cage is by 2 windows ( although we keep the shades down most of the time)

oh, and i showered him before i read the other posts saying not too! i just put him on my hand and took him in for about 10 minutes. he became more active the longer he was in there. and he didn't want to get off me when i tried to put him back. i hope that doesn't harm him. (he wasn't directly in the water but i was getting some on my other hand and then "raining" it on him)

 

[Brad Ramsey]

It is highly likely that his eyes are closed due to the coil light.
It MUST GO!!! there is no way to stress that strongly enough.
Same strength needs to go to removing the ceramic heaters BAD FOR CHAMELEONS
60 degrees is the temp you want for him at night. Night time temps should drop 15 to 20 degrees so he can sleep well.
Keeping him in the current enclosure might work okay if you start cup feeding so he can find his food.
I'm glad he's going to the vet.

-Brad

 

[summoner12]

do i need to switch the uv bulb even though i'm using it with a dark mesh cage? i've heard that the dark mesh will cut down on the uv that gets through. (i don't have room on top of the cage for a florescent fixture right now.) the tank temp has dropped down to where it should be, i guess. we've moved the uv light over by the ceramic. if i switch to that blue bulb will it keep the tank warm enough? the room temp is only 60 degrees usually and the cage is by 2 windows ( although we keep the shades down most of the time)

oh, and i showered him before i read the other posts saying not too! i just put him on my hand and took him in for about 10 minutes. he became more active the longer he was in there. and he didn't want to get off me when i tried to put him back. i hope that doesn't harm him. (he wasn't directly in the water but i was getting some on my other hand and then "raining" it on him)

I am sure he is fine from the shower... just as long as you don't hear him breathing and popping.

As far as the room temp being so low..... Get the 100 watt and buy some of these temp guages. Place them in the basking area and another lower in the cage. He will learn to find the warm places. It will really help him to find it by SEEING the light. You can also try placing cardboard around two or three side of the cage when the room is that cold. As far as the compact.... I don't trust them, seriously. I know my situation was a bit on the over kill side.... but I had a panther die from one. I had a 10.0 and it basically cooked his eyes and he went blind and stopped eating. I learned of this website It will help you to read that site as much as you can. It really shines some light on the subject. The reason I don't like the compacts is because of this quote from the site "Although at these distances your reptile should not develop acute eye damage or skin burns, he/she will still be receiving low levels of radiation of a type not found in natural sunlight". Just read through some of the links it will give you a good understanding of how important proper lighting plays a strong roll in their life.

I know it will be reinventing the wheel to go out and buy all this new stuff... But for how young your little guy is it will be good to house him properly. And I am sure this little one will not be your last, they are very addicting. Here in SoCal we have meetings monthly to deal with our addictions. So if you sorta think about how you might reuse the gear you buy, it doesn't seem all that bad. I re-use all of my stuff from my first chameleon. And if I buy anymore I have plenty of lighting fixtures, lamps cages and I even have extra plants. Just keep track of the amount of time you use your UVB lamps. Write the date you start to use it, and if you aren't going to use it for a while, write the date you stopped using it.

I hope this helps you a little. Please do not buy from Petco or Petsmart. They charge more than an arm and a leg. Plus they mostly have NO CLUE what they are talking about. My little guy Fred came from a Petsmart, but he was the last thing I purchased from them. They had him in a small cage and he was so sad looking. I asked to see him one day and he climbed right onto my hand and started to turn green imediatly. The girl helping me was shocked and said he was never that nice to anyone, EVER. I don't even buy crickets from Petsmart anymore. I buy all of my feeders from local breeders.

 

[Jaidensmomma]

thanks, guys! I'm getting rid of the compact and the ceramics ASAP! (Friday since its payday!) Can I put a 50 or 75 watt full spectrum house light on the cage in the mean time? i know it won't provide uvb but will it help his eyes? what if i open the blinds on the window he's by?

i switched out the compact for a 75 watt full color spectrum bulb and... he opened his eyes!! we also misted him for 5 minutes ( i say we cuz my arm got tired!) he doesn't seem to mind being misted, as he doesn't turn dark green or black but i wish he's show me that he's drinking! we are making a feeding dish as soon as our milk is gone!!

 

[summoner12]

He will be ok for a few days without the UVB. You can use a house hold incandescent light bulb as heat and his light source until you can get the other stuff. Use this time to experiment with what wattage works at keeping the cage warm.

 

[Jaidensmomma]

He's had his eyes closed again all afternoon! I've got a vet appointment set up for friday morning (it was the only day that i could get there) so we've been misting him for 5 minutes at a time 3 time today, is that right? also, if the tank is supposed to be around 60 degrees at night i can take off the remaining ceramic. he would be fine, right? I don't want him to get too cold. thanks for all the help! I appreciate it!

 

[summoner12]

Don't let his cage get below 60-65 at night. Do you have a space heater? or central heating in the house? Try placing cardboard around the cage. maybe hang a heat coil above the cage or mounted low pointed up to lightly heat the cage.

His eyes won't heal over night. It doesn't take long for them to start getting better... but it isn't over night. Let him be alone until you need to take him to the vet. Enter the room to spray him. If you have traffic around his cage, place something infront of it so he can't see people walking around. He needs some peace and quiet.

Going to the vet will be stressful for him. When you take him to the vet place him in a shoe box with a bunch of paper towels in it. Close the top and leave him in a dark room for 20 minutes before you leave. He will knock out and sleep once it is dark. Don't shake him around in the car. Have someone place his box between their feet for the car ride. If it is cold outside by you be SURE to heat the car up before you bring him into it.