MY UVB readings as a guide

[ZEROPILOT]

Hello.
Recently I replaced some 4 month old T5 Reptisun HO 5.0 tubes that had diminished more than I had expected.
(Tested with my SOLARMETER 6.5R)
This is a baseline reading with my new 10.0 REPTISUN HO UVB T5 tubes. These are in Reptisun 24" fuxtures.
I hope they can be helpful for keepers without access to a meter.
I have 3 Exo Terra Xtra large cages and 3 of these fixtures and lights.
I tested both with light going through the screen top and without any screen and then I averaged out the readings. They were all very similar.
WITHOUT A SCREEN:
4" 11.2
8" 8.9
12" 5.5
20" 2.0
THROUGH A SCREEN:
4" 10.3
8" 7.7
12" 4.7
20" 1.2
So, for my Veileds, the lights are raised about 14" away from the favorite branch and through a screen top I've got about 3.9 or 4.0.
If you are using a similar cage and UVB. I hope this helps.
I'll try to do an update when I check again in 3 or 4 months for a height adjustment.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

THROUGH A SCREEN:
4" 10.3
8" 7.7
12" 4.7
20" 1.2

Not clear if these readings are for a 5.0 or 10.0
They are similar to the readings I get with an Arcadia 6% through the screen, so I'm having to back away from 9"-10" (for around a 3.0 UVI for a panther).

 

[nightanole]

Uhh you are gunning for a 3.0 on the top basking branch. And at the same time making sure they cant get closer than a 6.0

I just tune so the cham hangout zone is a 1-1.5. No point in having a 3.0 basking branch, if its the only choice.


If you look at your lizard picture on your meter, chams are ferg II so technically the upper limit is 3.0.


Lets be honest here, you change the bulb when its ratings drop by half. So you start with 3 and change at 1.5.

I guess you can do you and start at 4 and change at 2...

 

[Beman]

Uhh you are gunning for a 3.0 on the top basking branch. And at the same time making sure they cant get closer than a 6.0

I just tune so the cham hangout zone is a 1-1.5. No point in having a 3.0 basking branch, if its the only choice.


If you look at your lizard picture on your meter, chams are ferg II so technically the upper limit is 3.0.


Lets be honest here, you change the bulb when its ratings drop by half. So you start with 3 and change at 1.5.

I guess you can do you and start at 4 and change at 2...

Ehhh I run a 3-4 basking level range with my Veileds. I have the last 2 years. Quite closely to what Bill Strand has recommended. My chams always go right below the UVB light at the 3-4 range rather then any of the other branch options I provide.

 

[CasqueAbove]

Ehhh I run a 3-4 basking level range with my Veileds. I have the last 2 years. Quite closely to what Bill Strand has recommended. My chams always go right below the UVB light at the 3-4 range rather then any of the other branch options I provide.

This is how I do it. 6 uvi is very top of cage, they really should not get here too much, but that level for short periods won't hurt.
3-4 is where I want their main basking.

 

[nightanole]

Ehhh I run a 3-4 basking level range with my Veileds. I have the last 2 years. Quite closely to what Bill Strand has recommended. My chams always go right below the UVB light at the 3-4 range rather then any of the other branch options I provide.

But is that the only basking choice? If the chams only choice is the 3-4 range to get warm, well thats the only basking spot.

I generally have a "chameleon hangout zone" that has a very wide angled basking bulb that the sticks are at a gradient to the UVB bulb. So if they want to get a lot of UVB, they can walk up, and if they just want to be warm before going on adventures, there is a zone for that too.


Though this goes back to the whole "in the wild they can not heat up unless they are in 6.0 UVI direct sunlight" SO having warm light with little UVB is "unnatural"

 

[CasqueAbove]

But is that the only basking choice? If the chams only choice is the 3-4 range to get warm, well thats the only basking spot.

I generally have a "chameleon hangout zone" that has a very wide angled basking bulb that the sticks are at a gradient to the UVB bulb. So if they want to get a lot of UVB, they can walk up, and if they just want to be warm before going on adventures, there is a zone for that too.


Though this goes back to the whole "in the wild they can not heat up unless they are in 6.0 UVI direct sunlight" SO having warm light with little UVB is "unnatural"

on https://Chameleonacademy.com/ he explains this very well as to why we pick the ranges we do. They are not absolute, but under these levels as I an @Beman mentioned Chameleons have been raised and laid calcified eggs. He explains it all out in a very tangible way.

 

[Beman]

But is that the only basking choice? If the chams only choice is the 3-4 range to get warm, well thats the only basking spot.

I generally have a "chameleon hangout zone" that has a very wide angled basking bulb that the sticks are at a gradient to the UVB bulb. So if they want to get a lot of UVB, they can walk up, and if they just want to be warm before going on adventures, there is a zone for that too.


Though this goes back to the whole "in the wild they can not heat up unless they are in 6.0 UVI direct sunlight" SO having warm light with little UVB is "unnatural"

Nope they have a basking lamp that they barely ever use. I also have my branches so that they are slightly angling in and out of the uvb path. There are areas of lower uvb with same temps under the 3 T5's but that is never where they pick. It is always the areas of higher uvb.

Arcadia has a lighting guide where you type in the species and they give you the recommended UVI level for the basking zone. That is another tool I utilized when setting mine up https://www.arcadiareptile.com/lighting/guide/

 

[nightanole]

Nope they have a basking lamp that they barely ever use. I also have my branches so that they are slightly angling in and out of the uvb path. There are areas of lower uvb with same temps under the 3 T5's but that is never where they pick. It is always the areas of higher uvb.

Arcadia has a lighting guide where you type in the species and they give you the recommended UVI level for the basking zone. That is another tool I utilized when setting mine up https://www.arcadiareptile.com/lighting/guide/

If you go by cham academy and arcadia, That setup is for zero D3 supplements correct? Wasnt that the point of the 3-4 UVI recommendations ? I mean we have a few decades of data that says a UVI of .25-.5 combined with D3 twice a month produce good eggs and healthy bones.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Arcadia has a lighting guide where you type in the species and they give you the recommended UVI level for the basking zone. That is another tool I utilized when setting mine up https://www.arcadiareptile.com/lighting/guide/

That tool also coincides with what I was saying here. Not so weird after all!

 

[Beman]

If you go by cham academy and arcadia, That setup is for zero D3 supplements correct? Wasnt that the point of the 3-4 UVI recommendations ? I mean we have a few decades of data that says a UVI of .25-.5 combined with D3 twice a month produce good eggs and healthy bones.

I have used it giving reptivite without D3 two times a month and now using the Arcadia RevitaliseD3 two times a month. Beman did not have issues not getting the D3 supplement with my levels being a 3-4 UVI. I have replaced the reptivite with the Arcadia version since I prefer their products.
2 times a month use of D3 with these UVI levels as a back up for D3. Arcadia's new product does have much lower D3 amounts. But Bill was recommending Repashy calcium plus 2 times a month along with this UVI level at basking. If you read his stuff he says a 1-3 level with the highest level they can get to on the screen being a 6 UVI.

It is interesting to me that you could use such low UVI levels as a .25 -.5 when compacts provide low levels like this and we see chams with MBD. How often would you have supplemented D3 using that low of a UVI level?

 

[nightanole]

It is interesting to me that you could use such low UVI levels as a .25 -.5 when compacts provide low levels like this and we see chams with MBD. How often would you have supplemented D3 using that low of a UVI level?

from 1992 till about 2008 the standard chameleon setup for this forum(well the forum wasnt alive in the 90's) was a reptisun 5.0 T8 linear with a white refector through screen. And Repashy calcium plus 2 times a month. That was the standard. Zero bad eggs, zero bad bones, zero "over supplimenting".

You got MBD from not using a "reptile light" or Not supplementing with D3. And of course there was the horrible CFL's that put out way less than the T8 5.0. But you could(and still can) raise animals with no UVB as long as your D3 is on point. Some breeders even grind their own raw calcuim and D3 (yes a coke bottle cap full can kill a human).

Then about around 2010 there was the great chameleonforums fight over people recommending high power T8 10.0 bulbs. "those are for iggies and beardies, chams are ferg II shade animals, its going to cause eye and skin problems".

Then about 2012 the 6%/5.0 T5HOs became available and the fight happened again. "how far should we keep the T5 to match the 10.0 T8 levels?"


Now we have power creeped to the point of "4.0 and change at 3.0" and still supplementing with D3. And we are getting more and more reports of swollen eyes and edema from supplementing with the "normal D3" and using T5HO bulbs.

I honestly think that the arcadia lights combined with the arcadia supplements are the upper limits of tolerance, not the mins or recommended.



Like i said, Everyone who had chams in the early 90's and 2000's had UVI levels of .25-.5 and 20,000 IU/lb D3 powder twice a month. That was "at least" the min needed for healthy eggs and bones. For homework just look up what is recommended for chameleons in µW/cm². And the conversion of µW/cm² to UVI is about 40:1 (its not exact since it changes with the time of day and season).

 

[Beman]

from 1992 till about 2012 the standard chameleon setup for this forum(well the forum wasnt alive in the 90's) was a reptisun 5.0 T8 linear with a white refector through screen. And Repashy calcium plus 2 times a month. That was the standard. Zero bad eggs, zero bad bones, zero "over supplimenting".

You got MBD from not using a "reptile light" or Not supplementing with D3. And of course there was the horrible CFL's that put out way less than the T8 5.0. But you could(and still can) raise animals with no UVB as long as your D3 is on point. Some breeders even grind their own raw calcuim and D3 (yes a coke bottle cap full can kill a human).

Then about 17-14 years ago there was the great chameleonforums fight over people recommending high power T8 10.0 bulbs. "those are for iggies and beardies, chams are ferg II shade animals, its going to cause eye and skin problems".

Then about 12 years ago the 6%/5.0 T5HOs became available and the fight happened again. "how far should we keep the T5 to match the 10.0 T8 levels?"


Now we have power creeped to the point of "4.0 and change at 3.0" and still supplementing with D3. And we are getting more and more reports of swollen eyes and edema from supplementing with the "normal D3" and using T5HO bulbs.

I honestly think that the arcadia lights combined with the arcadia supplements are the upper limits of tolerance, not the mins or recommended.



Like i said, Everyone who had chams in the early 90's and 2000's had UVI levels of .25-.5 and 20,000 IU/lb D3 powder twice a month. That was "at least" the min needed for healthy eggs and bones.

Thank you I enjoy reading about where the hobby has been and greatly appreciate your knowledge. I honestly do not know except for my experience the last 2 years. I go by what the leaders in the hobby recommend. I by no means think that it can not be done as it was done but I do go with what is recommended now rather then before.

Per the edema and swollen eyes. I see it very frequently here too but it always subsides when they reduce their supplements to the correct schedule. 9 times out of 10 it is always an issue of over supplementation.

Now I do happen to be a firm believer that anyone in the hobby should own a solarmeter 6.5. There are so many variables that impact the numbers from type of fixture, reflector, to screen being used. Even when it just comes to single bulb T5's my numbers differ from what others get.
Personally I would never just go with what is said on distance without checking my own levels and knowing what I have, which is why I purchased a solarmeter 2 months into being in the hobby.

I do see that T5's being used improperly has its own issues. People that just slap them on an enclosure and have a vine 2 inches down. Then we get other issues with over exposure. But this again goes back to my feeling that everyone should view a solarmeter 6.5 as a have to own item.

 

[nightanole]

Thank you I enjoy reading about where the hobby has been and greatly appreciate your knowledge. I honestly do not know except for my experience the last 2 years. I go by what the leaders in the hobby recommend. I by no means think that it can not be done as it was done but I do go with what is recommended now rather then before.

Per the edema and swollen eyes. I see it very frequently here too but it always subsides when they reduce their supplements to the correct schedule. 9 times out of 10 it is always an issue of over supplementation.

Now I do happen to be a firm believer that anyone in the hobby should own a solarmeter 6.5. There are so many variables that impact the numbers from type of fixture, reflector, to screen being used. Even when it just comes to single bulb T5's my numbers differ from what others get.
Personally I would never just go with what is said on distance without checking my own levels and knowing what I have, which is why I purchased a solarmeter 2 months into being in the hobby.

I do see that T5's being used improperly has its own issues. People that just slap them on an enclosure and have a vine 2 inches down. Then we get other issues with over exposure. But this again goes back to my feeling that everyone should view a solarmeter 6.5 as a have to own item.

Yea i just say dont mix regimes or go by your breeder. So its ok to go with the recommended T5HO UVI levels, if you also adjust to the proper supplements

 

[CasqueAbove]

from 1992 till about 2008 the standard chameleon setup for this forum(well the forum wasnt alive in the 90's) was a reptisun 5.0 T8 linear with a white refector through screen. And Repashy calcium plus 2 times a month. That was the standard. Zero bad eggs, zero bad bones, zero "over supplimenting".

You got MBD from not using a "reptile light" or Not supplementing with D3. And of course there was the horrible CFL's that put out way less than the T8 5.0. But you could(and still can) raise animals with no UVB as long as your D3 is on point. Some breeders even grind their own raw calcuim and D3 (yes a coke bottle cap full can kill a human).

Then about around 2010 there was the great chameleonforums fight over people recommending high power T8 10.0 bulbs. "those are for iggies and beardies, chams are ferg II shade animals, its going to cause eye and skin problems".

Then about 2012 the 6%/5.0 T5HOs became available and the fight happened again. "how far should we keep the T5 to match the 10.0 T8 levels?"


Now we have power creeped to the point of "4.0 and change at 3.0" and still supplementing with D3. And we are getting more and more reports of swollen eyes and edema from supplementing with the "normal D3" and using T5HO bulbs.

I honestly think that the arcadia lights combined with the arcadia supplements are the upper limits of tolerance, not the mins or recommended.



Like i said, Everyone who had chams in the early 90's and 2000's had UVI levels of .25-.5 and 20,000 IU/lb D3 powder twice a month. That was "at least" the min needed for healthy eggs and bones. For homework just look up what is recommended for chameleons in µW/cm². And the conversion of µW/cm² to UVI is about 40:1 (its not exact since it changes with the time of day and season).

I think you nailed it. Our technology is out pacing our knowledge. I agree using the higher UVI ratings we need to be careful with our supplements.
I keep on schedule, but especial if a lot of natural sun, I may only dust one feeder, and still blow off excess. Over supplementing is one of my concerns.

We are mixing old supplement regimes with new technologies. I expect before too long we won't use D# any more as out lights get better.

 

[nightanole]

I think you nailed it. Our technology is out pacing our knowledge. I agree using the higher UVI ratings we need to be careful with our supplements.
I keep on schedule, but especial if a lot of natural sun, I may only dust one feeder, and still blow off excess. Over supplementing is one of my concerns.

We are mixing old supplement regimes with new technologies. I expect before too long we won't use D# any more as out lights get better.

We are all waiting on that magical day when sansi has UVB LEDS

 

[Kaizen]

Yup, I think a solar meter is a necessary tool, especially if you want to go d3-free. I’d share how I set up my enclosures with respect to uvi ratings, coverage, etc. But I fear I’ll get torn to shreds.

 

[CasqueAbove]

Yup, I think a solar meter is a necessary tool, especially if you want to go d3-free. I’d share how I set up my enclosures with respect to uvi ratings, coverage, etc. But I fear I’ll get torn to shreds.

Lol yea with a solar meter, you can go farther. I could see my basking getting up to 5 or 6 if I could measure it. I don't have a solarmeter yet so I have to play safe.

 

[nightanole]

Yup, I think a solar meter is a necessary tool, especially if you want to go d3-free. I’d share how I set up my enclosures with respect to uvi ratings, coverage, etc. But I fear I’ll get torn to shreds.

I set mine up for 1.5 when new and change at .75. And i supplement with stickytongue indoor every feeding. Some people think im nuts, and some people think all my animals should have 7-8 elbows by now

But im not going to mix and match, i always offer the levels and supplement sched at the same time. I dont say use 1.5 and rapashy LOD twice a month, because i have not raised a few animals on it.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

from 1992 till about 2008 ....

Interesting hiss-tree lessen!
That's a few things I learnt today. ?