MY SICK SASSY

[Sassysmom]

Bought Sassy, my (GUESSING) 7 month Veiled from a woman that could not care for her. I was told she was 1 1/2 years old and to feed her every other day. After some research I concluded that she was 3 months old when purchased from a big box pet store around 4 months when i got her making her around 7 months. I had never seen the coiled UVB before ( I've always used the traditional long lights) I continued to use it, she came with no Calcium so I assume she hadn't received any. I gut load feeders and sprinkel with calcium daily, calcium with D3 2XS per month. Wide variety of fruits, veggies plus insects and worms. Changed her to a very large cage, water drip, mister, real plants. 5 days ago I noticed she was at the bottom of her cage. I provided a bucket of soil for her. After 24 hours of her wallowing in the dirt I KNEW in my heart that she had MBD with broken limbs. That was 4 days ago. I found a vet ( an 80 year old big animal/reptile/regular vet). She tested positive for pinworm and MBD with all 4 limbs broken. He was surprised her jaw wasn't broken. I told him about the calcium I give her and that old man actually swore in front of me (That generation of men DO NOT swear infront of women) calling the "calcium provided by pet stores S#it!!!, because its not for human consumption, they can call it calcium and put whatever they want in it. Chamelons grow fast and require more calcium, human calcium." He also stated that the parasites come from the feeder crickets. He gave me droppers for her "super formula/food and liqiud calcium he ground and I mix and administer. He wants to wait untill shes eating on her own and hydrated before worming her. I have never cried so hard over a pet!!! The rest of the world thinks I'm crazy, but my family understands I LOVE HER!!! I will do whatever it takes to nurse her back to health. She is receiving 1 dose of calcium and 3 feedings per day(totalling 1 tsp of fluid per day) along with 45 minute shower and 2 hours a day in the sunshine. Today she took the super food by drops didnt have to force feed. Ive worked in the medical field for 14 years and am sure to place it past her air vent to prevent aspiration. This isnt my first lizard I have nursed back to health, I am an experienced reptile/amphibian owner since 1991 but this is my first Cham. Ive always wanted one but I knew that my children would stress one out so I waited untill now (youngest 16) to own one.
Questions:
1. Is the vet right about the calcium?
2. How long can I expect for the healing process?
3. Where can I find crickets that are parasite free?
4. Should I be giving additional water?

 

[JacksJill]

1. I don't know what brand your vet swore at but there are several brands that people on this forum use successfully.
2. We are working with a panther that was turned over to my friends with severe dehydration and MBD. it has been ~8 mos of gradual improvement. He know eats on his own, has a strong grip but wobbles on one leg, the one with the most damage from MBD.
3. Most feeders have some potential for transmitting parasites. Chams in weakened condition are more susceptible to them. You will need to really clean your cage well until this is controlled. Yearly or twice yearly fecals are a good idea to see if they are in check or need treatment.
4. Additional hydration is usually a good idea for chams that are under physical stress. I would add mistings or occasional showers. You are probably giving water in your liquid diet. Monitor the white portion of the poo, urates, for hydration. White is good orange is bad.
"Shower - Another method of providing water, especially to dehydrated chameleons, is by using a shower. Place a large plant in the tub, aim the shower head against the wall, and run the water so that only a fine mist reaches the chameleon. The water should be room temperature (not hot!). They may drink for up to 30 minutes. Make sure to supervise your chameleon at all times while using this method."
Best of luck. Hang in there. You can always call your vet and have the staff relay your follow up questions.

 

[JacksJill]

2. Pet store crickets are notoriously "dirty" you may be better to order from any of the site sponsors or other online sources. You could also try other feeders to give her a varied diet. Dubia, super worms, hornworms and/or silkworms.
This is a very good source of information on husbandry. https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

 

[Sassysmom]

Thank you. She actually has a syrong dislike for crickets basicly have to starve her for her to eat them. Loves, loves, loves super worms and horned caterpillars but i have limited them secondary to being told her main diet should be crickets. She hasnt eaten on her own for 7 days. She even hissed at and refused her 2 favorites. I just want her to heal

 

[kinyonga]

I cant tell you if the vet is right about the calcium. I can tell you this though...I've used Rep-cal phosphorous-free calcium at almost every feeding for my chameleons for years and they never show signs of MBD. I use Rep-cal phosphorous-free calcium/vitamin D3 twice a month dusted lightly on the crickets and Herptivite vitamin powder twice a month lightly. I also feed insects like crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms with a wide assortment of greens (dandelion greens, endive, escarole, make, collards, etc) and veggies (carrots, sweet red oepoer, sweet potato, squash, zucchini, etc) with a bit of fruit (berries, apples, pears, melon).

I've always been told to use a liquid calcium sandoz or liquid calcium gluconate in addition to the regular supplementing to help the chameleon recover and it doesn't take long before you start to see results.

I can't help you with the parasite free crickets...sorry.

I always water the chameleons well but don't give them extra water unless they aren't drinking on their own as a rule.

Do you know if she needs to lay eggs?
Good luck with her!

 

[Sassysmom]

1. I don't know what brand your vet swore at but there are several brands that people on this forum use successfully.
2. We are working with a panther that was turned over to my friends with severe dehydration and MBD. it has been ~8 mos of gradual improvement. He know eats on his own, has a strong grip but wobbles on one leg, the one with the most damage from MBD.
3. Most feeders have some potential for transmitting parasites. Chams in weakened condition are more susceptible to them. You will need to really clean your cage well until this is controlled. Yearly or twice yearly fecals are a good idea to see if they are in check or need treatment.
4. Additional hydration is usually a good idea for chams that are under physical stress. I would add mistings or occasional showers. You are probably giving water in your liquid diet. Monitor the white portion of the poo, urates, for hydration. White is good orange is bad.
"Shower - Another method of providing water, especially to dehydrated chameleons, is by using a shower. Place a large plant in the tub, aim the shower head against the wall, and run the water so that only a fine mist reaches the chameleon. The water should be room temperature (not hot!). They may drink for up to 30 minutes. Make sure to supervise your chameleon at all times while using this method."
Best of luck. Hang in there. You can always call your vet and have the staff relay your follow up questions.

1. I don't know what brand your vet swore at but there are several brands that people on this forum use successfully.
2. We are working with a panther that was turned over to my friends with severe dehydration and MBD. it has been ~8 mos of gradual improvement. He know eats on his own, has a strong grip but wobbles on one leg, the one with the most damage from MBD.
3. Most feeders have some potential for transmitting parasites. Chams in weakened condition are more susceptible to them. You will need to really clean your cage well until this is controlled. Yearly or twice yearly fecals are a good idea to see if they are in check or need treatment.
4. Additional hydration is usually a good idea for chams that are under physical stress. I would add mistings or occasional showers. You are probably giving water in your liquid diet. Monitor the white portion of the poo, urates, for hydration. White is good orange is bad.
"Shower - Another method of providing water, especially to dehydrated chameleons, is by using a shower. Place a large plant in the tub, aim the shower head against the wall, and run the water so that only a fine mist reaches the chameleon. The water should be room temperature (not hot!). They may drink for up to 30 minutes. Make sure to supervise your chameleon at all times while using this method."
Best of luck. Hang in there. You can always call your vet and have the staff relay your follow up questions.

She has urinated 1X and it was white, no fecal matter. I have been showering her but she is to weak to grasp anything so ive basicly been in the shower with her!!! LOL!!!

 

[Sassysmom]

I cant tell you if the vet is right about the calcium. I can tell you this though...I've used Rep-cal phosphorous-free calcium at almost every feeding for my chameleons for years and they never show signs of MBD. I use Rep-cal phosphorous-free calcium/vitamin D3 twice a month dusted lightly on the crickets and Herptivite vitamin powder twice a month lightly. I also feed insects like crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms with a wide assortment of greens (dandelion greens, endive, escarole, make, collards, etc) and veggies (carrots, sweet red oepoer, sweet potato, squash, zucchini, etc) with a bit of fruit (berries, apples, pears, melon).

I've always been told to use a liquid calcium sandoz or liquid calcium gluconate in addition to the regular supplementing to help the chameleon recover and it doesn't take long before you start to see results.

I can't help you with the parasite free crickets...sorry.

I always water the chameleons well but don't give them extra water unless they aren't drinking on their own as a rule.

Do you know if she needs to lay eggs?
Good luck with her!

Ive tried to post pics but it wont upload. She has recently shown new colors, blues, orange with crazy looking spots. That with her hanging out at the bottom of her tank is what made me think she was gravid. No protrusions (eggs) from her, and she was quite thin a couple of days ago. Much happier and better hydrated now but i feel nor see anything that leafs me to believe she has eggs.

 

[Sassysmom]

I do now, from this forum that the coiled UVB light is insufficient for her to process the calcium. I had also limited her outside sun exposure secondary to letting her acclimate to her new environment, plus it gave her hibiscus tree a chance to come back to life as she has eaten every new leaf and bud before it had a chance.

 

[Sassysmom]

I cant tell you if the vet is right about the calcium. I can tell you this though...I've used Rep-cal phosphorous-free calcium at almost every feeding for my chameleons for years and they never show signs of MBD. I use Rep-cal phosphorous-free calcium/vitamin D3 twice a month dusted lightly on the crickets and Herptivite vitamin powder twice a month lightly. I also feed insects like crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms with a wide assortment of greens (dandelion greens, endive, escarole, make, collards, etc) and veggies (carrots, sweet red oepoer, sweet potato, squash, zucchini, etc) with a bit of fruit (berries, apples, pears, melon).

I've always been told to use a liquid calcium sandoz or liquid calcium gluconate in addition to the regular supplementing to help the chameleon recover and it doesn't take long before you start to see results.

I can't help you with the parasite free crickets...sorry.

I always water the chameleons well but don't give them extra water unless they aren't drinking on their own as a rule.

Do you know if she needs to lay eggs?
Good luck with her!

She did eat a WHOLE grape 5 days ago ( forgot about that) I normaly only offer half. Her limbs look sooooo much better. No longer has tremors also. Her name is Sassy for a reason "Princess Sassafrass" is her given name. Keeping it PG for the Grandkids I have been very surprised as of late... hissed like a snake at the vet, but not at me or my youngest. The Vet said ( as she hissed, even her weakened state at him) "I know I'm a stranger" ( even though she cant hear we talk to her out of human habit). She realy, truly knows me and my son. I think they are WAY more intelligent than given credit for. He had to force her mouth open as he was showing us how to administer her meds and she just simply opens her mouth for feedings from myself and my son. Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside.

 

[kinyonga]

If she's showing the colors you described in the reply to me, then she is likely gravid.
What did the vet say about her and what treatment/meds did he give her?

 

[Sassysmom]

He gave me liquid calcium he made and a formula. After some research I wondered if the liquid calcium and the formula she receives at noon equalling 1/2 tsp was to much for her tiny stomach. When i went to give her her 3rd feeding yesterday she seemed awfully full. When i picked her up the slight pressure made her throw up. So i skipped it. Im so very sad today as I found my Sassy dead this morning. We had a burial for her at 5:15am. I am very sad today. I have however learned some valuable lessons.
NEVER let my family pick out my pet as a surprise.
Never buy a Chamelon from an inexperienced owner. (Thats where my Sassys downfall began) she told is she was 1&1/2 when she was 4-5 months, had been feeding jer every other day. No calcium, improper UVB light, ect. She thought she was doing everything right because thats what the pet store advised.
My next Cham there will be a next time will go to the vet as soon as purchased, I will find a reputable breeder, I will also order the feeders as oposse to obtaining from a pet store. I will also get a male.

 

[kinyonga]

So sorry for your loss. It's not easy losing one of them no matter how long you've been keeping them.

 

[Sassysmom]

I awoke this morning to find my Sassy had passed away during the night. Sad day.

 

[Sassysmom]

So sorry for your loss. It's not easy losing one of them no matter how long you've been keeping them.

This is the third lizard I have nursed. It forms an unbreakable bond when you take care of another be the patient human or other. She definitely brought some Sass and some love to my life.

 

[jannb]

I am very sorry to hear that you lost Sassy.

 

[Twitchet]

Very sorry to hear the sad news, tragic and I feel your pain too.
Take care.